Hot New Woods Defense Pistol

[treillw]

I bought some online (there a lots of options) and a bunch locally (Acme and another brand)

I think these would be worth considering, although I haven't bought any as I still have over 1,000 of the others I already purchased.

9mm TC 148 gr. " The Outdoorsman" per 400

In-Stock 9mm TC 148 gr. per 400 (sized .356) OAL 0.642, Meplat 0.212, No crimp groove

rimrockbullets.com

Should add: Above I said "penetration is similar". Should clarify that's comparing 45 Super, and 10mm to 9mm 147+p. My 44 mag 320 hardcast handloads are in a class by themselves. I'd guess 2x the penetration of the others pretty easily.

Curious, how are you doing your penetration testing?

 

[treillw]

I bought some online (there a lots of options) and a bunch locally (Acme and another brand)

I think these would be worth considering, although I haven't bought any as I still have over 1,000 of the others I already purchased.

9mm TC 148 gr. " The Outdoorsman" per 400

In-Stock 9mm TC 148 gr. per 400 (sized .356) OAL 0.642, Meplat 0.212, No crimp groove

rimrockbullets.com

Should add: Above I said "penetration is similar". Should clarify that's comparing 45 Super, and 10mm to 9mm 147+p. My 44 mag 320 hardcast handloads are in a class by themselves. I'd guess 2x the penetration of the others pretty easily.

Its cool to have found buffalo bore's source for projectiles. Anyone know who makes Underwood's cast lead bullets?

 

[Thegman]

Curious, how are you doing your penetration testing?

Nothing too scientific. Wood, paper and steel. Years ago I wrote a simple excel program predicting penetration in wood based on mass, velocity, and meplat diameter. The program modeled my actual testing pretty well so still works to give a good SWAG about penetration based on those parameters.

Haven't used it for a long time.. I'll take a look at it and see what it predicts for 9, 10, 45 and 44.

Guessing from the past it's 9mm, 45 Super...10mm....................44 mag. Although I've seen gelatin testing where it was 10mm...9mm,45super............... I think those three are pretty close.

 

[Thegman]

Just opened up that Excel spreadsheet. The order above is about right. My 44 loads according to the program get only about 30% more penetration rather than 100% more as I thought. I'm still thinking they do better than 30%. 9, 45 Super/ACP are really close. 10mm maybe 10% more than those two.

But again, I've seen test results showing those reversed.

...And I'm sure my program is at least as accurate as the climate modeling has been, so far, fwiw.

I'll look for that gelatin testing, but in the meantime, this was kind of interesting, and reminded me how well the Federal 147 FMJ FP seem to penetrate.

Bottom line, IMO. If you want an autoloader for woods carry, pick a 45/10/9 you like and shoot well and live long and prosper. There's just not that much difference.

 

[Thegman]

I think this is the gelatin tests I had seen. If you scroll down, there are 9m, 40sw, 45+p and 45 Super tests as well. 9,10,45S all pretty similar with regard to penetration.

Underwood 10mm Hard Cast in Clear Ballistics Gel

www.1911forum.com

This guy did something different, but found about the same.

Inexpensive Methods of Testing Bullet Penetration by Old N Bold

Old N Bold offers an inexpensive way to test bullet penetration. Sheetrock layers are relatively inexpensive, easy to use, and consistent.

www.ammoland.com

I've done and seen enough of these tests that the 9mm seems to make the most sense for me when also accounting for weight, "shootability" and capacity.

Okay, I've beaten this dead horse. I'm finished...I promise.

 

[Beendare]

A nice woods gun….is a contradiction.

I packed a .357 revolver through thick and thin chasing hog dogs for year. You should see the SW Shield I use on hunts after just a few years in the woods.

My take; you don’t need a Staccato priced pistol in the woods….and if you did it would get beat up pretty quick.

FWIW, I put a apex kit in my 9mm Shield and it shoots lights out never fail even with hardcast ammo. Plus its thin and I hardly know its there. Beat it up- so what- thats what its for- its a $400 gun.

I do swap it out for a G20 on the Ak islands where I‘ve run into Brown Bears on every trip.
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I get wanting a really nice pistol- just not for a woods gun. Have you seen the Bull 2011’s?

 

[MattB]

Just opened up that Excel spreadsheet. The order above is about right. My 44 loads according to the program get only about 30% more penetration rather than 100% more as I thought. I'm still thinking they do better than 30%. 9, 45 Super/ACP are really close. 10mm maybe 10% more than those two.

But again, I've seen test results showing those reversed.

...And I'm sure my program is at least as accurate as the climate modeling has been, so far, fwiw.

I'll look for that gelatin testing, but in the meantime, this was kind of interesting, and reminded me how well the Federal 147 FMJ FP seem to penetrate.

Bottom line, IMO. If you want an autoloader for woods carry, pick a 45/10/9 you like and shoot well and live long and prosper. There's just not that much difference.

I believe that it was Buffalo board that listed their most potent 9mm offering as significantly out penetrating their most potent 10 lmm round.

 

[BrBa]

My experience with 147 gr 9mm is the longer the barrel, the better for accuracy. My P365 and VP9SK both shoot 'ok' with 147 gr. Groups are about half the size at 25 feet with 124 gr. By comparison, my 4" PPQ shoots 124 and 147 equally well, with maybe a slight edge to the 147. Something to think about.

 

[Thegman]

I believe that it was Buffalo board that listed their most potent 9mm offering as significantly out penetrating their most potent 10 lmm round.

And that video I linked showing how well that 124 FMJ +p+ penetrated was surprising to me; I'd not seen that before. Makes me wonder if that might be a little better than the 147s...??? Bottom line, most are probably adequate, some might be even a little more adequate.

 

[Mark.c]

HK45c/HK USP 45c are a robust duty pistols that can shoot the hot .45 loads. Pricey though.

 

[Wrench]

I'm completely content with my 43x loaded with 147 berry's hybrids. That's after I smoked a bear in the face with my 10mm.

 

[twofer]

I am moving to Montana soon, and will be spending a lot of time outdoors in grizzly bear country, where I will be packing a handgun of some type as a final defense against a bear attack. I know the question of "what is the best caliber to carry for bear protection" spawns endless debates. Phil Shoemaker, an Alaska Master Guide with a lot of experience around bears, including himself stopping a charge, recommends the two most important criteria for stopping a bear charge are accurate shot placement and good penetration. In other words, a hand canon that you can't shoot well due to recoil is not the best option.

Additionally, Ammoland statistics, where even the 9mm had a very high success rate for driving away an attacking bear, indicate that most any handgun properly deployed will get the job done, Again, meaning that hitting the bear's vitals is more important than shear power.

Handgun Defenses Against Bear Attacks - 170 Documented Incidents, 98% Effective

There are now 170 documented cases, with 146 of those cases where handguns only are fired in defense against bear attacks. Handguns are effective 98% of the time.

www.ammoland.com

In light of the above information, I am currently shopping for .40 S&W as the best balance for myself of accurate shot placement and good penetration in a high-stress, fast-moving situation.

JMHO

 

[Welldone]

Here’s my woods gun. AlphaFoxtrot 10mm with Holosun and Surefire rail light.Super quality build that’s DLC’d . Very smooth!!!