Horses - A Burden or a Blessing?

[rokclmb]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback! To clarify a couple things:

- We both grew up with horses and are generally familiar. My brother spent time working for an outfitter in MT/ID and has extensive knowledge on packing/knots/etc. He would be the primary caretaker.
- Water/pasture is very near camp and the horses come w/ electric fence, etc.
- We're working to add a 3rd person that could assist with the horses during the day.

I feel that if we can't recruit a 3rd or 4th (spouse/father-in-law) person to come along we should pass up on the horses for a couple more years. We both have children that will be coming of age in a few years and are wanting to come out with us. We truly enjoy the back country experience and don't want to take away from the pure relaxation and enjoyment of not having anything to be responsible for but ourselves. But, as the old saying goes "You wont/don't know if you don't try". So, I suppose we will need to make the best decision we can and see what happens!

I truly appreciate all the help and personal accounts. Thanks again.

 

[tom338]

I packed in with horses for the first time ever this year. I do not own horses and haven't been around them much, my partner the same. To say it was a challange would be a understatement. The worst was we had never been in the area and then it started raining on us on the way in. We were in a area with lots of dead blow down trees. Trails not maintained and then turned extremely slippery. Someone was watching out for us because we should have wrecked more than a few times. We rented these horses also. One we drug in and then wanted to run us over on the way out. The other was actually decent to work with. One pawed dirt all night while tied up and was just a general all around pain in the butt, Id shoot that thing if I ever saw it again. Some horses are ok to go into the back country, some are not. We have another trip planned and a relative is going with who lives on a horses back in the mountains. I will learn a ton just by helping and watching what he does, sure hope we draw that this year

 

[njdoxie]

Great thread, I have zero horse knowledge, but friends have packed out elk for me with horses, I enjoy reading this stuff....god bless them when you need one, but even in my limited experience, I've seen a few rodeos, and would never in a million years bring one in on my own.

 

[mntnguide]

There are great days with horses and mules...

..and some days they drive you to the brink of sanity..

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[Studd muffin]

I have hunted with horses twice. They can be fairly difficult dealing with, but man are they worth it if you are fortunate enough to kill an elk. If your brother has a lot of experience and a good handler, the trip will be much smoother.

 

[tttoadman]

I am not a horse fan, but I like seeing a great bunch of horses and Mules doing their thing.

The best part of horses in the wilderness is trail maintenance. We all owe a debt to the guys who get it done so the rest of us can enjoy the trails.

 

[njdoxie]

Love those pics, LOL at the pics of the mules laying down relaxing.

 

[xziang]

Love those pics, LOL at the pics of the mules laying down.

Lying down or stuck?

 

[Beendare]

Lying down or stuck?

Ha! Well as Mtn guide will tell you...the good thing about a mule vs a horse is they will not hurt themselves freaking out.

But where you can spur a horse out of a bog like that...if the mule doesn't want to go...he ain't moving!

Too bad mtnguide isn't as long winded as myself...no doubt he has some good stories.....

 

[1signguy]

Looks like those mules are caught in a pretty good bog... Those are the wrecks that scare me. Way to easy to get kicked (which may kill you or you will simply wish it had).

I would absolutely take the horses if you have a third person- I would take them even if it is just the two of you so long as the horses are legged up and familiar with a pack, comfortable on a tie line, you have water close, and the horses are comfortable with a kill on their back. If your stock meets the above criteria you should enjoy the benefits they can provide.

Between now and the coming season you have some time to get your stock prepared but it will take a lot of working with them to get them comfortable with a pack, carrying a dead animal etc. if they have not done it in the past let alone ever. Some horses will never carry a dead animal on their back!

Taking stock backcountry is equal parts art, determination, and responsibility- a little luck doesn't hurt either. However, if you invest the time and energy in getting your animals ready for an elk hunt the way you get yourself ready- everyone will enjoy the trip and the reward far outweighs the effort.

 

[mntnguide]

Lying down or stuck?

Stuck as all hell ha. What looked like solid ground turned out to be a full mud bog..this was about hour 9 of what should have been a 5 hour pull between camps...early season trip where we hit 5 foot snow through a high pass, then incredibly high water making it almost impossible to get across to where I wanted to camp...I ended up swimming my pack string across to find a better route..

..and yes like stated above...when a mule doesn't want to move, they DON'T! which I've had be a very good thing at times, but also frustrating in other situations

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[rayporter]

i got to derail this slightly.

three years ago in colorado we heard of a mule stuck in a bog, several miles up the trail. apparently it had been stuck for more than a day. eventually the cute ranger walked in to chew someone out cause all the people riding past caused the mule to bray something horrible. plus all night long the mountains rang with his bellows.

never did hear the outcome.

and yeah that is quite the string mntnguide - probably took all night to pack them up to leave at daybreak. i love it.

 

[archer wapiti]

The area I often hunt has several camps who pack in with horses. Love to see them, but don't want to be responsible (nor do I have the knowledge). I have tremendous respect for those who can pack in with livestock.

Granted this is early season archery in New Mexico, so one doesn't need a lot of gear to be comfortable, but my observation is that as soon as people get a beast of burden, they seem to think they need all the amenities they have car camping. This boggles my mind. If I was using a horse to pack in, I'd just take in one horse and have it carry my pack set up the same way I'd otherwise be backpacking in on foot. That way, if I'm successful, I could carry my own pack (less food consumed) and the horse could carry the elk on the way out. I met a guy a couple years ago who was complaining about how heavy his laptop was to carry out (horse had carried it in). Huh.

Not saying this is you, but I'd caution against falling into that kitchen sink mindset.

Until there's an animal on the ground, I don't feel any need for a horse. When it's time to pack out, I've so far been able to find a guy to pack me out. Costs less than a set of tires for his trailer.

 

[Beendare]

Granted this is early season archery in New Mexico, so one doesn't need a lot of gear to be comfortable, but my observation is that as soon as people get a beast of burden, they seem to think they need all the amenities they have car camping. This boggles my mind.

Not saying this is you, but I'd caution against falling into that kitchen sink mindset.

.

Agreed.....only the necessities....<grin>

 

[Beendare]

Have you guys ever heard the story Wayne Carlton tells about mules?

i won't do it justice as he is an amazing storyteller....the Readers digest version;

Wayne had borrowed a buddies mule and was coming out of a backcountry camp in the pitch black and pouring down rain one night. There was downed timber in the trail so he was weaving around trying to get back on trial when he comes to another downed log. The mule stopped dead and would not cross no matter how he cussed and coaxed.

He knew that he could have spurred his trusty horse over that log and was ticked off when he had to dismount and lead that mule in the pouring rain. He had the lead and stepped over the log....only to slide partways down a small cliff....a section of the hill was just gone! He still had hold of the reins so while he hung there he clucked to the mule and the mule backed up pulling him out of there. He is convinced he is still on this earth because he was riding a mule instead of a horse that night.

He sold his horses rightaway...and now owns mules.

 

[dvm_hunter]

I'll pass. I've had a ton of horse experience working cows, trail rides, trying to stitch em up, trying to medicate em, trying to tube em. I deal with horses enough that I'd rather carry a fridge on my back than deal with them in the woods.

 

[Wapiti66]

The answer to this question all depends on your hunt and your needs. Do you find yourself content on the ramen noodle/mtn house diet? Sleep just fine on the lightweight pad? Have the time, energy, and temperatures on your side to take the time to pack the meat off the mountain on your own back? If so, then I'd say that you don't need the horses.
But if you are more like me, and find that after two days of mtn house suppers and ramen noodles you aren't satisfied and are really wanting something more.....maybe even some wine with your steak dinner, or beer, or orange juice or milk with breakfast that isn't just instant oatmeal while crawling out of your nice comfy sleep system (I brought an eggshell foam pad to put under my blow up pad) I slept like a baby, much different than when I packed the lightweight pad on my own back and tossed and turned all night and woke up sore and tired before I had animals to pack my camp system.
It's two totally different scenarios, and '16 was my first season to take my two mules and horse into the mountains to elk hunt. Yes it was a lot of hours of work to get them "ready" throughout the spring and summer. Yes I had a blowup at the trailhead and my mule unpacked camp across the parking lot, making me stay at the trailhead that night patching up panniers and resorting my gear/food to see what was still worth taking in...the next day. It was the first time my horse had been to the mountains, and the first time I had attempted this....but we survived and when I unloaded camp I was comfortable, eating well, had a bladder of wine for my steak dinner, and the animals were grazing green grass up to their bellies in cool weather so they seemed very content. Also, I was 9 miles into the backcountry and had elk a short distance from camp. This was heaven for me.
As far as taking care of the animals, I didn't find it to be as big a burden as most....I woke up and hunted until midday when things seem to quiet down, I'd go back to camp, lead them to water and hobble them. I'd eat my lunch as they grazed for 1-2 hours then I'd tie them back to their highline and go hunt until dark. Then I would hobble them again for about 2 hours while I cooked supper and drained my box wine bladder. Full moon definitely helped here so I could see them grazing after dark. Then I would gather them back up and back to the high line all night. They seemed to do just fine and came home in great shape, this was a week long hunt. If you are out several weeks I would think you would need to give them more graze time, but mine seemed like they were full then I came to gather them up.
If you would like to eat better, sleep on better pads, and not have to pack elk out for miles on your own back then it sounds like you and your brother have enough experience to get it done with horses. Of course, there are pros and cons for each situation, weigh them out to your needs/desires but don't think you have to be a full-blown cowboy to do this.....I'm definitely not and I survived and am eager to take them back next September.

 

[mavmskyb8]

I was with 2 other guys and we rented 2 horses, and the 3rd guy had his own horse, and he was a veterinarian, which was comforting to me. We rode up April Gulch, all over the Baldies, and truly, I thought it was a pain in the ass. Like mentioned many times above, water, feed, water, feed, saddle off, brush, saddle on, for 10 days. I wouldn't do it that way again.

 

[IdahoElk]

They are great for bringing in camp and taking it out,hopefully with an Elk,everything in-between is a pain in the neck.

 

[MesaHorseCo.]

Its all situational to me. Sometimes horses rock and save you tremendous amounts of energy, sometimes you just don't need em. Some areas that i go to I use them, others I don't. 6 miles in one area might feel like 2 miles elsewhere. If you know the area and think that horses would help you there, then they probably would.