High Mileage Vehicle for Work

cliffy109

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The part of it that doesn't make sense is you can still buy a new vehicle for MSRP (or well below that, like my Jeep) if your patient.

Maybe for some people who want/need it now and don't care about money, it makes sense.

But paying more for used than new sure doesn't make sense to me!
It is model and geography specific. Are there vehicles one can buy at or below MSRP? Yes. Absolutely. I'll use Toyota as an example since that is the one I'm most familiar with but you'll get the point.

Toyota is having supply chain issues with both microchips and some parts required for 4WD and AWD models. As a result, we are getting more 2WD models and the AWD models we do get tend to be lower trim levels which require fewer microchips. If you do a search for 4Runners and Highlanders, you'll see that many dealers have them and some even list discounts on their web sites. Look at the same model but in a 4WD/AWD model and in the upper trim levels and you'll see almost none and the ones that do exist tend to be listed at thousands above MSRP.

What does that do for the 3 year old Certified market? Well, since there wasn't a supply chain issue 3 years ago, we sold a lot more of the upper trim levels with power at all 4 wheels. They were also sold at substantial discounts at the time. The owners of those vehicles are making a killing when trading them in and are often getting close to what they paid 3 years ago because the demand is high. It also means that the retail price is similarly high for the next buyers. The lower trims and 2 wheel drive models do suffer in resale value when discounts enter the new car market.

The price of the Jeeps or Fords does have a little impact on this but not a huge amount. I don't want to sound arrogant here but 3 year old Toyotas do tend to show a bit better than 3 year old competing models generally (many exceptions to this of course).

If you really want to get into mind blowing situations, I'll get into what happens at a dealer that only sells at MSRP on the new car side but competes in a regional market on used cars. In that case, used car actually sell for MORE money than a brand new one.
 

Pdzoller

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I’ve beat the hell out of several Corollas. Never had any issues or any mechanical problems other than normal cheap maintenance. My friend got 395k on his before he sold it.

I have several mechanic friends and I also drive a ton for work and definitely see what cars seem to have issues more than others. List of cars I see broken down a lot and I wouldn’t buy include anything as a commuter from GM, Ford, Kia, Subaru or Chrysler.
 

jpuckett

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If you're secure in your masculinity, go for the Subaru. My daughters have pointed out to me that all the guys in the lifted trucks max out at about 5' 8".

LUCKILY I’M 5.7 SO I DONT FIT THAT CATEGORY


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Pdzoller

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Subarus are a placebo for middle aged women who worry about inclement weather. 🤣

I still want a STI though.
 
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treillw

treillw

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Subarus are a placebo for middle aged women who worry about inclement weather. 🤣

I still want a STI though.
I test drove a Forester and I was impressed haha.

I could floor it on a snow covered road and the tires wouldn't spin - guess that's what the video is complaining about. It still accelerated well, despite being apparently limited.

Sounds like the RAV4 AWD system does the same power limiting as well, so it might not be the CVT. It would be nice if you could turn it off. Maybe you can.
 

displacedtexan

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Not too impressed with the offroad capabilities of the Subaru... Sounds like the CVT sucks for it. Crazy how the engine just cuts out. Any of you Subaru fans have anymore insight on this?


Thanks!

@displacedtexan ,@Evol, @FLS ,@Yooper , @wyosteve , @Dented, @Zbowman1, @BRTreedogs
No experience with the CVT... But our bone stock Outback has been places the vast majority of 4x4 owners wouldn't drive.

Really impressed with the awd system when it's slick.
 
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treillw

treillw

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No experience with the CVT... But our bone stock Outback has been places the vast majority of 4x4 owners wouldn't drive.

Really impressed with the awd system when it's slick.
Your outback probably has a CVT (continuously variable transmission), not?
 

cliffy109

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I test drove a Forester and I was impressed haha.

I could floor it on a snow covered road and the tires wouldn't spin - guess that's what the video is complaining about. It still accelerated well, despite being apparently limited.

Sounds like the RAV4 AWD system does the same power limiting as well, so it might not be the CVT. It would be nice if you could turn it off. Maybe you can.
Yeah... that isn't the CVT. It is the traction control and it can be turned off but that isn't really the best answer. Traction control has two functions: it reduces the throttle and applies brakes to the slipping wheel. Early traction control systems were too aggressive on the throttle kill but newer ones are pretty good with this and only reduce it enough to allow the wheels to find traction.

The braking system is how it really helps. With an open differential, if you apply brakes to the slipping wheel, power is instantly transferred to the opposite side of the vehicle. It is a very efficient way to get power to the correct side of the vehicle.

If you turn off traction control, you loose both functions. That might be the right answer in some situations but not all.

I can't speak about Subaru, but the RAV4 since 2019 has had a button that gives you some control. On the non-hybrid, models, you can select "dirt/rock" or "sand/gravel" setting which changes how the TRAC and stability control system works. It optimizes the braking and throttle modulation for the conditions (the sand/gravel mode also works for snow).

On the hybrid models, they have a "trail" function that does essentially the same thing but allows the car to figure out the best mapping for it.
 

Billinsd

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My buddy at work always buys Hyundai. He's had two Elantras and a Sonota both were great cars. One thing to consider if you intend to put a lot of miles on your vehicle is timing belts. I never buy a vehicle that has one, only chains. I don't want to change them myself or pay $1k every 80-100k miles for someone else to do it. The cost of tires are bad enough.
What about water pumps, how long do those last? Aren't they labor intensive to change?
 

Billinsd

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I’ve beat the hell out of several Corollas. Never had any issues or any mechanical problems other than normal cheap maintenance. My friend got 395k on his before he sold it.

I have several mechanic friends and I also drive a ton for work and definitely see what cars seem to have issues more than others. List of cars I see broken down a lot and I wouldn’t buy include anything as a commuter from GM, Ford, Kia, Subaru or Chrysler.
No timing belt, water pump, head gasket, wheel bearings, motor mounts go out?
 

Billinsd

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I’ve beat the hell out of several Corollas. Never had any issues or any mechanical problems other than normal cheap maintenance. My friend got 395k on his before he sold it.
Same shocks, motor mounts, head gasket, power steering parts, water pump to 395k?
 

Billinsd

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My current work car is a Hyundai Sonata, prior to that a Hyundai Accent. Accent finally kicked it with 572k on it, current Sonata is about to hit 450k. Our work fleet is exclusively Hyundais now, and unless they were wrecked, they've all hit over 425k very easily.
What kinds of repairs? Head gasket, water pump, engine mounts, wheel bearings, power steering parts?
 

jimh406

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I don't know where you live, but I wouldn't want to be in a compact when you hit an Elk/deer or truck. I'd keep driving your full size truck and save the money assuming you aren't dying to have something different. By the time you count depreciation, you'll lose money buying a new vehicle.

However, if you absolutely want a different vehicle consider Lexus models. You can get a much nicer vehicle than a Toyota/Honda for about the same amount of money. Strange, but true. This is especially true if you look at older models. It's pretty easy to find a perfectly maintained few year old Lexus. Carafe and similar don't say everything, but it will show service records. It's been my experience that new Lexus drivers don't scrimp on maintenance. YMMV.
 

Pdzoller

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Same shocks, motor mounts, head gasket, power steering parts, water pump to 395k?
He replaced the timing belt when he sold it. I never had to replace anything on mine other than tires, oil changes, and other minor maintenance. I never kept one passed 250k though. I’ve had the same luck with the four cylinder Geo metro/Suzuki Swift too. I had a 96 Metro with over 800k on it but that had very few original components by that point. A guy can swap a motor and transmission in one of those in 45 minutes 🤣
 

Billinsd

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I’ve had the same luck with the four cylinder Geo metro/Suzuki Swift too. I had a 96 Metro with over 800k on it but that had very few original components by that point. A guy can swap a motor and transmission in one of those in 45 minutes 🤣
45 minutes? The hell you say! What kind of guy? I'd imagine a mechanic or someone that's done it before with friends maybe could.
 

Billinsd

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I drove my 2000 civic to 250k miles when the head gasket failed, but I replaced my engine mounts, wheel bearings, timing belt, water pump, fuel pump, distributer, shocks. Most reliable, cheapest car I've ever had, but not real fun driving to 250K. I hear people that go farther and it doesn't sound fun, unless you got a nice shop with a lift to work on it. Laying on my back isn't fun.
 
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treillw

treillw

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Yeah... that isn't the CVT. It is the traction control and it can be turned off but that isn't really the best answer. Traction control has two functions: it reduces the throttle and applies brakes to the slipping wheel. Early traction control systems were too aggressive on the throttle kill but newer ones are pretty good with this and only reduce it enough to allow the wheels to find traction.

The braking system is how it really helps. With an open differential, if you apply brakes to the slipping wheel, power is instantly transferred to the opposite side of the vehicle. It is a very efficient way to get power to the correct side of the vehicle.

If you turn off traction control, you loose both functions. That might be the right answer in some situations but not all.

I can't speak about Subaru, but the RAV4 since 2019 has had a button that gives you some control. On the non-hybrid, models, you can select "dirt/rock" or "sand/gravel" setting which changes how the TRAC and stability control system works. It optimizes the braking and throttle modulation for the conditions (the sand/gravel mode also works for snow).

On the hybrid models, they have a "trail" function that does essentially the same thing but allows the car to figure out the best mapping for it.
It seems like the RAV does the same stuff essentially - cutting the motor out.

I get the braking/anti slip stuff - my Rubicon has dual lockers. I don't get why you floor it and nothing happens at all. It should be able to transfer power to the planted tires to at least make them spin if it's not going to go anywhere.

I realize that the Subarus and RAVs aren't high performance off road vehicles, but the dirt roads they take them on in these tests seem pretty darn mild, especially by Montana's standards. I feel like I've driven a front wheel drive car through some worse stuff.

I realize that I'm differing from my original post here a bit. I'm thinking that if I got something more off-road worthy (Forester or Rav TRD) that I would be able to use it for adventuring trips fishing, hiking, etc throughout the year. Better gas mileage to get to the dirt roads and better capability than a Honda Accord/Subaru Legacy once you're on them. Doesn't sound a whole lot better though, with the expectation of some more ground clearance and sightly better approach angles.

A truck/jeep wouldn't even blink where they are testing the stuff.

 

Corey Paulsen (teamkabob)

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I test drove a Forester and I was impressed haha.

I could floor it on a snow covered road and the tires wouldn't spin - guess that's what the video is complaining about. It still accelerated well, despite being apparently limited.

Sounds like the RAV4 AWD system does the same power limiting as well, so it might not be the CVT. It would be nice if you could turn it off. Maybe you can.
Put it in x mode and get after it!
 
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