Heavy Arrows & High FOC Vs. Lightweight Fast Arrows

[MT257]

My arrow this fall weighed 417gr. Not even sure what the FOC is of it. Bull when 60’ and tipped over. Not sure I could ask for better performance? Put the arrow where it needs to be and quit worrying.

 

[MThuntr]

I’m shooting 500 grains at about 17% foc.

I'm right in this zone too. It seems to be a good balance between heavy and fast.

 

[WhatToHunt]

I'm right in this zone too. It seems to be a good balance between heavy and fast.

Same

 

[cured_ham]

I'm sorry but that sounds like a magnum approach. Guys who shoot a 300 win mag to make up for poor shooting, they figure they can hit them in the guts and still kill them.

There's advantages in the field to speed, not light speed, but where your arrow isn't dropping 10 inches in 5 yards. I believe in finding a happy medium.

Not my purpose at all. I know that I can put an arrow anywhere I want out to about 90 yards. I was hitting animals broadside at 60 and leaving about half my arrow poking out. To me that was not acceptable. I could not get a quartering away shot to go past the liver. Something was wrong with my setup, likely both with bow tune and arrow. I feel I have resolved both of those.

I have no misconceptions about shot placement. I still practice diligently and do everything I can to get an arrow right behind the shoulder. I just now that nothing works out 100% of the time. I feel it is more ethical for me to do everything I can so that if something does go wrong that I can still recover my animal. To each their own.

I decided the trade off between trajectory and penetration was worth it. I am comfortable with my current speed and practice with it enough that I know how to ensure my arrow goes where I want. Keep in mind that my arrows will drop less between pins at longer distances due to increased momentum. I also can allow myself a greater margin of error because my kill zone now includes the scapula. It is not a "magnum approach" in my eyes. It is a "shit happens even when you do everything right approach".

That being said, shoot whatever you have the most confidence in. I lost confidence in my 100 grain G5 Strikers on a 420 grain arrow. I have it back now with these.

 

[cured_ham]

I started the same thread on saddle hunter dot com and the replies are very different but interesting; Most fall in line with a lot of ‘arrow builders’ and what those here on rokslide called ‘EFOC dorks.’ Lol. Rokslide seems to be more people who hunt.

Appreciate the input from all.

I’m torn as I couldn’t get heavier arrows to fly great and hated the loss of trajectory. But I understand the science and hate the idea of a poor strength with an arrow and not enough penetration. I hunt whitetail in the 175 dressed weight range, but would like an arrow that can take a black Bear and maybe one day an elk or mule deer (if I ever get a tag).

i shoot a Bowtech Revolt X at 60” with a 29.5” draw. When I was shooting 400 spine carbon arrows with 100 gr points totalling 404 gr: I was getting 280 FPS.

I am currently trying out axis fmj 340 spine with 125 gr head totalling 508 gr. Only reason for 125 Head was to get the foc above 10% as I use lighted nocks. The arrows are slower than my carbon setup at 240 FPS. But they fly good and I’m guessing will hit hard.

I have Magnus stinger heads but trying tooth of the arrows as they do fly better and the tests people have done show them to be stronger. I had the muzzy 3 blades before but wanted something more durable.

I agree and believe firmly practice and being a good archer with all steps in the shot process is more critical in the end than the arrow. Thanks all!

If you are trying to get a heavy arrow I would ditch the FMJ. You can put more weight into your insert/head to beef up the part of the system that takes a beating. It will also help with FOC; the more your shaft weighs the less you can put up front. You probably will want a 300 spine at that draw length as well.

If you are bareshaft tuned and have proper spine your heavy arrows should fly fine. The only difference would be trajectory- which is a personal choice.

 

[87TT]

I'm right in this zone too. It seems to be a good balance between heavy and fast.

498 gr. 16-17% FOC 70# at 274 through the chrono= dead elk for me

 

[Jimbob]

Not my purpose at all. I know that I can put an arrow anywhere I want out to about 90 yards. I was hitting animals broadside at 60 and leaving about half my arrow poking out. To me that was not acceptable. I could not get a quartering away shot to go past the liver. Something was wrong with my setup, likely both with bow tune and arrow. I feel I have resolved both of those.

I have no misconceptions about shot placement. I still practice diligently and do everything I can to get an arrow right behind the shoulder. I just now that nothing works out 100% of the time. I feel it is more ethical for me to do everything I can so that if something does go wrong that I can still recover my animal. To each their own.

I decided the trade off between trajectory and penetration was worth it. I am comfortable with my current speed and practice with it enough that I know how to ensure my arrow goes where I want. Keep in mind that my arrows will drop less between pins at longer distances due to increased momentum. I also can allow myself a greater margin of error because my kill zone now includes the scapula. It is not a "magnum approach" in my eyes. It is a "shit happens even when you do everything right approach".

That being said, shoot whatever you have the most confidence in. I lost confidence in my 100 grain G5 Strikers on a 420 grain arrow. I have it back now with these.

What speed are you getting with 700+ grn arrows? Do you still shoot animals at 60 yds with that heavy set-up?

 

[cured_ham]

What speed are you getting with 700+ grn arrows? Do you still shoot animals at 60 yds with that heavy set-up?

I am getting 220ish. I have not shot that far on one yet, but I would not think twice about it. I called 60 the top of my range before I changed arrows and I still feel good out to it. It is important to note that I won't ballpark a shot on a moving animal that far. I have them ranged and pretty still at that point.

 

[Bill V]

A light-fast arrow has more negatives than positives for hunting in my opinion. Increasing arrow weight will make your bow more efficient and quieter and give you more penetration due to having more retained momentum. If your arrow is going straight at impact, FOC doesn't really enter into the penetration equation. If it is changing your penetration, it is likely due to arrow flight and tuning issues or excessive shaft bending. On mass, there isn't really a threshold, but rather a continuous improvement. I'd suggest going with the highest total arrow weight you can that still gives you the trajectory you want with a spine that is optimal or slightly over spined. For me this is typically around 475-530 grains and around 15% FOC. I can still dial my sight to 120 yards to shoot TAC and zip through big bull elk at 60-80 yards (with the right broadhead). Also, extreme FOC will cause arrows to nose dive more and limit trajectory. Not a big deal if you are shooting close range, but not what I want.

 

[Apapro]

Up Here in Canada, some guys are just hearing about FOC or EFOC.... and its causing them headaches! Guys figure just add 200+ up front and good to go. Then the why's? start happening and we usually field a lot of these calls and questions........Why can't I tune, why don't my BH's fly like they used to or at all like my field points.

I have shot super fast speeds for years running mechanicals and have passed through most animals I shot at, moose, elk mule deer. Fast as in 350-365 fps. usually using a too light of spine arrow shaft and didn't know better other than I couldn't get the open blades to fly right.

Now I've changed my thoughts a bit and read lots on FOC or EFOC.... built arrows (6 different styles) and have tested (last winter) what works for high speed (325+) with mid weight to heavy arrows. What fletching combination works and what amount of FOC seems to be the best blend.

With the ability to reach speeds of 325 fps with a 535 gr arrow (with boradhead) and having them group within 2" of field points at 100 yards I figured I had it made. Great set up and tons of horse power.

This winter I'm going to do some more informal testing on FOC and pen (not that it hasn't been done before) but at higher speeds than most shooters can achieve. Slowest speed will be 295-300 fps and the highest speed will be 365. FOC will be 9%-21%.

My thoughts for what its worth....get in the area of 10-15% of FOC and use a good quality head and if in doubt spine down.....* shooting .400 spine shafts then look at .340-.330 test and if that don't work goto .300 spine. With todays high efficiency bows you don't really need anything north of 15% FOC for most hunting.....Africa's big stuff is a whole different ballgame.

Last thoughts.....there is a trade off with heavy arrows and trajectory....only you can decide what your happy with as far as trajectory goes........to get that use the proper arrow weight.