Hash Marks or Turrets? A Mule Deer Hunter's Perspective, by Robby Denning

[robby denning]

Hi Roksliders.
Well after about a decade of observing these two types of aiming systems and two seasons of shooting hash marks, I put together my final review on the subject. Hope this answers some questions some of you may have.

I'm not a gun writer, just a deer hunter, so if there are any mistakes or inaccuracies, please point them out so I can fix. You won't hurt my feelings.

Hash Marks or Turrets? A Mule Deer Hunter's Perspective

 

[muleman]

Nice persuasive argument for BDC reticles on your light weight to average hunting rifle.

 

[Jaguigui]

Great article!

 

[ams]

....the article is coming up, Not Found blah blah blah type message

 

[Ryan Avery]

I am updating the front end, it will be offline for a bit.

 

[7mmfan]

This couldn't have been better timed and is very helpful. I am getting ready to upgrade my scope to a new VX-3i 4-14x40 and I was debating the custom turret system vs. a B&C reticle. Almost every deer I've ever killed has been under 100 yards, but we're beginning to hunt areas where longer shots could be more common. I struggled with the idea of a turret and dialing it up for long shots when I could use a hash mark and practice to be faster. You helped me make my decision. Thanks!

 

[robby denning]

glad it was helpful 7mmfan and even if you ever do step up to turrets, hash marks would make a good stepping stone- they'll build your confidence in you gun and abilities. Even though they are easier to learn, be sure and practice a lot; it's fun and necessary. Keep us posted on your process

 

[cowboy300]

Great article! I have the same thoughts as well. Out to around 600 yds ballistic hash marks are faster and just about as precise as dialing. After about 600 dialing takes over as there are just too many increasing variables. I have and use both systems on a variety of rifles and agree setting up a light weight gun with 3lbs of optic and mount doesn't make much sense. Another great option besides Vortex is Zeiss Rapid Z systems. With Zeiss you have more options to match your load to the reticle as they offer different models depending on the cartridge your shooting. They also have an online calculator to play with to see how your load matches up to the different Rapid Z reticles they offer and what best power setting on each scope to match your trajectory.

 

[deadwolf]

Just ordered the Vortex Viper HS LR 4-16-50 for my new Ridgeline. Best of both worlds with that scope, dial up, and a dead hold BDC. Robby, did you have to mount that scope so high because of the bolt handle clearance issues you were having?


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[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Devils advocate: Personally I don't like hash marks since as noted they vary based on magnification, room for adrenaline brain to screw up and assume a certain setting, plus if you are holding wind and elevation it gets sloppier since the hash marks are usually shorter than just holding for wind (which some do when dialing elevation). I rarely shoot at an animal at maximum zoom; narrower field of view and also eye relief is more particular (which can affect how fast you can reacquire a target if needed). I certainly don't walk around with my scope on maximum zoom so in the time spent cranking to max and finding the animal in the scope I think the "its faster" goes out the window. I put a label on my elevation turret, the top set of numbers are yardage for my verified hunting load in this gun, just takes a moment to spool off the cap (if it's on) and dial to what the range finder says, I can have my zoom on any setting that I find comfortable for the shot. This isn't an expensive custom turret its a piece of paper I made in excel and taped on.

In practice many hunters don't have a guide next to them with a range finder while they're already settled in eliminating the "just count the hashes and fire w/o moving your eye" factor for most people. First the hunter needs to range the animal, then get behind the scope and find the animal (takes longer on maximum zoom or the added step of finding it on a lower setting and then zooming in, then getting the right hash onto the animal). With turrets I dial the distance in a matter of seconds and I can settle in behind the scope in a lower magnification with a wide field of view to quickly acquire the animal and fire with the big set of cross hairs exactly where I want a bullet.

Yes this one is a somewhat heavier scope and fits more info on the turret label but the nice and light signtron big sky I have on a different gun I can still fit the yardage info on it. The sightron big sky line are 13.4oz for the 3-9x42 and 3-12x42 with solid glass and dials under cap.

Just another perspective on it. Good thing is there are options for us all to use what we like.

 

[robby denning]

dead wolf
two reasons for tall mounts:

1) with the comb on the stock, my eye was not naturally lining up with the scope very well (too high)

2) yes, with the high degree of bolt throw on Christensen, I needed the extra clearance. That gun could benefit with a lower degree of throw.

pods8-
thanks for the other perspective and I knew someone would find a turret scope out there that was lighter than what I posted. Nice choice for turret shooters.

The only counter point I want to make sure everyone caught was that beyond about 200 yards, I've always cranked to full power so that time was already accounted for in my "faster" equations, BUT in the scopes I'm shooting that has been around 10x, so FOV hasn't been a problem. thanks

how long is the sightron scope? The Vortex's I referenced were 12.5 and 12.4" respectively

 

[Mtslackcountry]

Im glad that you made a point in the article that you must be at maximum power for the hash marks to work. I use a custom turret so its pretty damn fast. I have forgot to turn up my power before when using my windage hash marks target shooting and things go to hell when your not at full power. Im always wonder how many people buy these scopes and don't know this.


I use a viper HS just like pods8 and used a label for the turret. Its got moa on the label too so I could use a ballistics program. I find the turret very fast and like to use lower power depending on situation

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

pods8-
thanks for the other perspective and I knew someone would find a turret scope out there that was lighter than what I posted. Nice choice for turret shooters.

The only counter point I want to make sure everyone caught was that beyond about 200 yards, I've always cranked to full power so that time was already accounted for in my "faster" equations, BUT in the scopes I'm shooting that has been around 10x, so FOV hasn't been a problem. thanks

how long is the sightron scope? The Vortex's I referenced were 12.5 and 12.4" respectively

My 4-16, I usually spool to 8-10 range for a farther type shot as well but enjoy 16x when target shooting with it and also can be handy to get some more detail on an animal at times. So I like having 16x but don't like shooting an animal at that magnification usually. More than anything though I just like the "mindlessness" and flexibility of never being concerned about zoom settings in regards to me shot placement. But that's just what I personally like.

Both those models are 12.64" per the manufacturer specs.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I use a viper HS just like pods8 and used a label for the turret. Its got moa on the label too so I could use a ballistics program. I find the turret very fast and like to use lower power depending on situation

The middle line is MOA numbers on mine so I can still dial drop when shooting other loads in the gun.

(The way I did the label was 3 lines in excel. The bottom line is just hash marks, the middle is whole MOA numbers, top is yardage).

 

[Matt W.]

What about having both? Hash Marks for when you have to move quickly, dial for dollars when you have more time. Best of both worlds?

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

This was a very interesting article and good practical information.

 

[deadwolf]

Thanks Robby, good article and good discussion. Without a doubt scopes are like backpacks, what works for one may not work for another or fit their "style."


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[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

What about having both? Hash Marks for when you have to move quickly, dial for dollars when you have more time. Best of both worlds?

As long as they aren't cluttered I don't mind hold over reticles, I just don't put an extra monetary value to them when deciding on a scope purchase.

 

[robby denning]

What about having both? Hash Marks for when you have to move quickly, dial for dollars when you have more time. Best of both worlds?

I'm so clueless I didn't even know they existed.
Thanks guys and the Sightron pods8at posted at <14 ozs and 12.6" sounds pretty tight compared to some of the monster turret scopes I was thinking of when I wrote the article.
Just my luck a guy from a town called Gunbarrel would find my article ha ha

 

[Justin Crossley]

Great article Robby.

I will add that even when I plan to dial the scope, I prefer a reticle with hash marks for measuring.