Hash Marks or Turrets? A Mule Deer Hunter's Perspective, by Robby Denning

[Matt Cashell]

I like the article as well, Robby. Observations and experience in the field lead to good conclusions.

I offer unnecessary complication to the topic To me there are simple, fast reticles (BDC type) and there are complicated reticles (Horus/Xmas tree type). Then there are simple fast turrets (Custom BDC type) and complicated turrets (tactical type to be used with field dope).

I feel like the BDC reticles and BDC dials are quick and easy if you remember one thing each: 1. Put your scope on the calibrated power for BDC reticles and 2. Dial back your turret to zero. Both are great to more modest "long" ranges.

The tactical dials and complicated reticles work similarly in that they offer more precision aiming and compensation for longer ranges and complex wind corrections. They aren't as fast to use as you have to calculate accurate dope in the field to make the most of them.

Reticle systems, dial systems, and combinations of both all get the bullet to the target within their limitations. Practice is the key.

I also recommend the Vortex BDC as a great, easy to learn reticle system for shooters just starting to go past MPBR.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I'm so clueless I didn't even know they existed.
Thanks guys and the Sightron pods8at posted at <14 ozs and 12.6" sounds pretty tight compared to some of the monster turret scopes I was thinking of when I wrote the article.
Just my luck a guy from a town called Gunbarrel would find my article ha ha

They have nice glass too but they aren't cheap, I really wanted to go with the big sky 4-16x42 but the price jump over the on sale vortex viper HS was too steep after I paid the gunsmith for the barrel work.

Full disclosure: Gunbarrel is the community designation I live in (google maps knows it so I call it legit!), but my mail says Boulder, . But I do like guns still I swear!

 

[robby denning]

Sounds good pods8 and thanks for the perspective on the other scopes/systems. I'd go with Gunbarrel over Boulder too.

 

[deadwolf]

Does anyone find that the cross hairs on the HS vipers are too fine? I've been shooting PSTs for the last five years on three different rifles and love them, but went a different direction for this new hunting rifle. I have read where some thought the HS LRs had too fine of crosshair for low light. Would be nice to hear some opinions


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[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Does anyone find that the cross hairs on the HS vipers are too fine? I've been shooting PSTs for the last five years on three different rifles and love them, but went a different direction for this new hunting rifle. I have read where some thought the HS LRs had too fine of crosshair for low light. Would be nice to hear some opinions


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HS or HS LR? You mention both. I don't find the HS too fine, a bit thick on target work at times actually but that's good for hunting usually, no experience with the HS LR.

 

[deadwolf]

Sorry, HS LR


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[GibsonKuenzi]

Great article Robby!

Just a note on glass: I know Everyone loves vortex scopes for their obvious warranty, price point and durability. About 2 years ago I bought a vortex 4-16x44 hs-t and was planning on replacing my vx-III 3.5-10x40 leupold. The leupold had so much better low light performance that I returned the vortex. The difference was near ten minutes at sunset. This is a major difference and can be the factor in getting a shot off during the last minutes of legal light.

 

[Tony Trietch]

Great article Robby!

 

[duckhunter175]

Does anyone find that the cross hairs on the HS vipers are too fine? I've been shooting PSTs for the last five years on three different rifles and love them, but went a different direction for this new hunting rifle. I have read where some thought the HS LRs had too fine of crosshair for low light. Would be nice to hear some opinions
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Deadwolf-- I have the 4-16x50 FFP HSLR in MOA. I love it and I am heartbroken they discontinued it. It is lighter than the PST (no illumination). In terms of difference in the crosshairs--- The HSLR has the XLR MOA with a thickness of .15moa on vert/horizontal and the PST has the EBR-1 MOA which is .21moa on vertical and horizontal. I don't feel that it is obvious noticeable.

Here is my hunting experience-- 1x Coues Deer, 30 min before last light, 348 yard shot. Deer was walking around a finger and it was a quick shot... no time to dial, scope was at like 7x but because it is FFP I just held 1 MOA line on his backbone and dropped like a sack of rocks with a high shoulder shot. Very fast to use the hash marks with FFP because the holdover doesn't change in conjunction with the zoom of the scope. I feel that HSLR FFP is the best of both worlds.

Last experience-- KY deer woods, whitetail rifle season, opening day, first min of legal shooting light I can barely get on a buck in thick timber at 45 yards because no illumination and the finer reticle, even zoomed out at 4x was hard to find. Binos confirm he was a spike so I passed but I would not have shoot because I couldn't confirm a solid sight picture in those circumstances. That scope and rifle (6.5x284) was not the proper tool for where I was but it was a good test of capability. The scope gathered plenty of light but the crosshair in the timber was tough.

Great thread, great article.... I'm in the FFP camp-- makes holding over easy, esp in MOA or IPHY. With that coues I knew my 300y drop was 2 moa so I put the 1 moa line on his back and squeezed.... done and done.

Good luck all!!!!

 

[robby denning]

duckhunter175-
good feedback on your experiences, thanks

 

[worx53]

I started another thread a couple weeks ago on the Vortex fine crosshair. I bought a Viper HS FFP 4.5-16x50 and every night have been looking at last light through it for the same concern about the crossshairs. My conclusion is here in Pa with dark timber edges that crosshair cant be seen well enough for an accurate shot in low light in dark timber. I chose not to mount it on my 300wsm and am back to looking at other scopes. A standard duplex can be seen at least 10-15 minutes longer as deer walked through pines out to a brushfield repeatedly over the last couple weeks. I'm considering the PST with the lighted reticle but any other recommendations would be considered.

 

[rayporter]

good article!!

since 1980 i have had special reticles built for fine holding when shooting long range. dial to get close and then hold for the fine tuning.