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What a bargain sign me up?! What does the Gila with 2nd archery season with no outfitter look like these days?! Am I at .01% or .03% ?!for $100 I’ll do it and even make up some NM predictive odds for anyone interested
Right. I was going on basis that either whole party keeps tags or everyone has to return them (does AZ allow point protection and return of some in group and not all?).Agreed. I too oppose point averaging for the same reason. Colorado’s lenient return policy would make point averaging especially ripe for abuse…build up a bank of points in your wife’s name, use her points to help draw yourself a tag, send her tag back during the early return period, get her tag money refunded and her points restored and use her points to do the same thing again next year.
In AZ I know some outfitters who do just this, will have a high point holder put in with clients, point holder has point guard and pulls out. The deal is you can’t use point guard more than 3 years in a rowRight. I was going on basis that either whole party keeps tags or everyone has to return them (does AZ allow point protection and return of some in group and not all?).
But you’re right if they allowed let’s say 1 of 2 in prty to return a tag and get PP back it’s create such a shit storm. Everyone would do the same as I’d just keep growing my few accounts up and keep hunting higher PP type tag every year at minimal expense. So any new Hunter coming in would never catch up to astronomical point creek.
NO Averaging!!!
AFAIK in Colorado returns are handled individually, even if the tag being returned was drawn as part of a group application. I don’t know how that situation is handled in other states.Right. I was going on basis that either whole party keeps tags or everyone has to return them (does AZ allow point protection and return of some in group and not all?).
But you’re right if they allowed let’s say 1 of 2 in prty to return a tag and get PP back it’s create such a shit storm. Everyone would do the same as I’d just keep growing my few accounts up and keep hunting higher PP type tag every year at minimal expense. So any new Hunter coming in would never catch up to astronomical point creek.
NO Averaging!!!
CorrectAFAIK in Colorado returns are handled individually, even if the tag being returned was drawn as part of a group application. I don’t know how that situation is handled in other states.
Yup that would make it that much worse. I never applied as a group so honestly never even checked. But this would 100% create extra point builders only paid by significant others/friends etc for personal gain.AFAIK in Colorado returns are handled individually, even if the tag being returned was drawn as part of a group application. I don’t know how that situation is handled in other states.
In AZ I know some outfitters who do just this, will have a high point holder put in with clients, point holder has point guard and pulls out. The deal is you can’t use point guard more than 3 years in a row
Sounds rightI was under the impression you could only point guard once per species. The second time you had to keep the tag and the point guard starts over with your new set of points going forward.
While I sympathize with people who really want to group up and average, as a whole it’s a terrible system and will drive more point creep.
I’m gonna throw hypothetical out there: I’m CO resident. I would buy points for my wife, kid, n few friends who don’t hunt but won’t care if they had an account that I managed and paid for.
As a resident it’ll cost me roughly (at current rate): $60 to build elk/deer/pronghorn points per person. That’s nearly same as single elk point in WY. I’ll gladly pay that under 4-6 people’s accounts which will ensure me that I never hunt 0pp tag ever again by averaging their points and rotating every 4-6years through my group.
Eating cost of Reaident tags is also not much for whoever I apply as a group with.
People do this in all states where averaging is allowed and it’s really screwing over average Joe hunter trying to play the point game solo.
So while few people who are honest may not be happy, as a whole system we’re better off NOT allowing any point averaging
Wouldn’t you agree?
There is no way they are doing this. They know how ripe for abuse that type of system is.I’m hoping they average points instead of the current system of lowest point number.
Now a point creep explosion due to these ignorant draw changes coming in 2028 isgoing to happen..
They kid of left a lot of questions unanswered. If a tag makes it past the optional next in line… and it’s a NR tag but it’s mid season of a 1st or 4th rifle hunt, those will go unsold I guess? I’m sure they will figure it all out but what a cluster…One thing I didn't see was the rules on turning back in tags.
When a tag gets turned back in on the RANDOM side of the (50/50) draw will that tag go to the next person in line that was in the RANDOM portion of the drawing or will that tag go to the next person in line in the order of PREFRENCE.
I don't recall hearing how they were going to handle that and IMHO this is a big deal because A LOT of tags get turned back in........
I was rather happy to see that the tags that get turned back in will maintain R/NR status. That in itself is a huge win for NR's. Most tags that are turned in are NR tags.
100% agree that Points got devalued in more than half for all the top tier units. My guess in half for mid tier units and for 0-3pp units it probably won’t make much differenceWhat I am saying is that with the changes coming in 2028 it is actually laughable to say point averaging will have any effect on point creep…
If you kept up on these changes at all it is very clear averaging of points is not going to happen.. No chance..
Now a point creep explosion due to these ignorant draw changes coming in 2028 isgoing to happen.. It seems silly to argue a hypothetical scenario with 0 chance at coming to fruition…
Wouldn’t you agree?
Maybe someone can answer this as I’m still unsure. But let’s say I didn’t draw my 1st choice, but got my 2nd or 3rd choice tag. Then 1st choice tag gets turned in and goes to me as I’m next inline automatically, but does that mean it automatically cancels out whatever was issued to me as 2/3/4th choice? Or do I have to NOT have a valid tag to be considered as next inline line?One thing I didn't see was the rules on turning back in tags.
When a tag gets turned back in on the RANDOM side of the (50/50) draw will that tag go to the next person in line that was in the RANDOM portion of the drawing or will that tag go to the next person in line in the order of PREFRENCE.
I don't recall hearing how they were going to handle that and IMHO this is a big deal because A LOT of tags get turned back in........
I was rather happy to see that the tags that get turned back in will maintain R/NR status. That in itself is a huge win for NR's. Most tags that are turned in are NR tags.
I’m guessing if you have an A list tag you will not be eligible for the next in line. Maybe if you drew a B list then you would still be eligible. Once again lots of stuff needs to be cleared up…Maybe someone can answer this as I’m still unsure. But let’s say I didn’t draw my 1st choice, but got my 2nd or 3rd choice tag. Then 1st choice tag gets turned in and goes to me as I’m next inline automatically, but does that mean it automatically cancels out whatever was issued to me as 2/3/4th choice? Or do I have to NOT have a valid tag to be considered as next inline lin
I’m guessing if you have an A list tag you will not be eligible for the next in line. Maybe if you drew a B list then you would still be eligible. Once again lots of stuff needs to be cleared up…