Goodbye Aquamira!

[Trout bum]

Sawyer with Potable Aqua as backup here as well. Aqua tablets with sanitizer taste pretty good. 30 minute wait isn't too bad in a pinch but the sawyer rocks. Will pickup up these MSR tablets and try them out. Thanks for sharing.

 

[justin davis]

How hardcore are you? Enough to say it was worth losing the weight? Lol jk

Mike

yea I am kinda joking. I dont purposly not drink water on hunts. Over the years fighting wildland fires I tried not to consume much water. The less water the less weight during a long shift on the line. In all reality it was dumb. And I seriously think I have jacked up my spleen from working and working with not putting enough water in my body. If I stay hydrated it doesn't hurt, if I don't drink much water during a day. Then it gets sore. Aron knows my pain well.

 

[Lawnboi]

My local walmart sells the same thing as the msr's but with the coleman name on them. That is all I use is the tablets or a filter, or both. Iv also seen them with a different name on them but there all the same thing except for the box.

 

[Aron Snyder]

How much are the type you're buying? I'll be heading to wally world if they're cheaper I think these were $9.99 for 30.

My local walmart sells the same thing as the msr's but with the coleman name on them. That is all I use is the tablets or a filter, or both. Iv also seen them with a different name on them but there all the same thing except for the box.

 

[Lawnboi]

How much are the type you're buying? I'll be heading to wally world if they're cheaper I think these were $9.99 for 30.

They might be the same price. If I remember right they were 9.99 or 7.99. Same box of 30. Porta water is the other brand, again same thing once you open the box.

 

[slim9300]

I cut and pasted this from an old thread. You guys may find this interesting...

Just read this online. I don't know if it's true but it makes me laugh at all the guys telling me I NEED a filter (not here).

"I have not heard this about AM (Aquamira). Waiting to see what evidence there is either way. Last I read on their site they were waiting for FDA approval to make certain claims about the product anyway. I tried it and didn't like the taste.

As to bleach. If you go that route use unscented. The scent stuff is a poison and will make you sick or worse. And if you follow the recommendation of survival class, CDC, or FEMA you should treat, wait 30 minutes and smell the water. If you cannot smell the chlorine in the water, you have to add the same amount again and wait another 30 minutes and smell again. If you cannot smell the chlorine yet, then you are supposed to dump it and find another water source - that source is too contaminated for bleach to kill it and still be safe to drink. So basic rule of thumb is if you cannot taste or smell the chlorine, you are not using enough.

As to iodine - Basically if you encounter water that is lightly to moderately contaminated and follow the package recommendations, then you are probably going to be fine. And the entire time the iodine is in the water, it is working. So if you take a drink at a half hour, you have less protection than you will when you take another drink from that water 30 minutes later or an hour later - then you are getting a higher protection level than is required by the FDA. When you filter and there is something in the water, it gets the chance to come back as it sits in your bottle. But as to water quality in the back country - there has never been a study of the water on the AT, but from anecdotal evidence (the fact that some people that never treat or filter don't get sick, and the general consensus being that most stomach bugs are probably hand to mouth passing of other diseases) one can assume that the water along the AT is either not contaminated by Giardia or crypto in most places; and in the places it is: the contamination is so low it wouldn't cause most healthy people that drink it to get sick.

To the safety of iodine. You already eat it regularly in salt - read the package, it is iodized. The reason for that is you need iodine in your system to prevent goiters. And a recent article I read said with the low salt craze in America that most people are not getting the RDA of iodine now anyway - so if you increase your iodine intake for a few months it probably won't hurt the average healthy person. Plus you can neutralize the iodine with VitC after it has done it's job.

And as to filters - Roland Meusser, in his book, has data that shows in laboratory controlled tests that filters are only 70% effective against Giardia after they have been used regularly. The stats on filters are only when they are new. Compare that to Iodine treatment in the same study that found the iodine to be greater than 90% effective when used according to the package recommendations. And 99% when given longer periods of time. Plus filters do not stop any viruses - even the filter makers recommend using chlorine or iodine in addition to their filters to protect against viruses. The last big outbreak of illness on the AT was HepA - a virus. I've never heard of a big outbreak of Giardia or crypto on the AT, while there have been many many cases of stomach viruses every year on the AT. Hmmmm....

Anyway, we didn't have filters for years in the back-country and everyone survived without them. Now that filter companies are selling them to backpackers, our water has suddenly become very very dangerous and the battle cry is "I don't want to take any chances" LOL. The best thing you can do is practice good hygiene. If you really don't want to take chances you would bring a filter with iodine and wash your hands like a doctor."

And this...

"I just read an article in a BackpackingLight magazine about effectiveness in treating the biofilm present in most water sources. Most treatments are lab-tested against free-floating organisms, which are harder to kill once they "congregate" into colonies protected by a biofilm. In summary, the findings highlighted that water filters were ineffective, and in fact biofilm can propogate around the filter elements. Aqua Mira was consistently the most effective, especially at 2X dosage levels, with the Miox UV pen giving marginal results. The iodine crystals of Polar Pure did not fare well in these tests."

Anyone have this article?

 

[Randle]

What have found thru traveling the US and living in Panama seems to be that people that are living in certain areas that have waterbugs and such their bodies have become used to the local stuff in the water. So they can drink the water and not got sick because their body has it all the time and can fight it off.
A newcomer to the area won't have that luxury.
My doctor traveled alot to S America and found the same thing.
While in Colorado a few years ago I got the beaver fever from the water yet my uncle didn't because he drinks from it all the time.
As for me I treat with Aquamira tabs , I spoke with Aquamira and they stated that if filtering after treating that the time could be cut to 30 minutes. ( I may try the MSR if the become available here) then filter with the Frontier Pro gravity it is light weight and I have been looking into the sawyer inline as well when I replace the Frontier Pro.
I have had the badge of the fever and don't want it again.
AS for chlorine and I suppose Iodine is the same be aware that for long term it will kill the good flora in your body so your will get the runs because you have sanitized your system.

 

[Aron Snyder]

I agree 100%! When I was in Panama, Iraq and the Stans, the locals could drink straight from the stream, but if we did that we would be sick as a dog.

I've had beaver fever a couple times, but the last time was nasty! I bent over to puke in the toilet and pooped on the wall behind me I started filtering my water after that!

What have found thru traveling the US and living in Panama seems to be that people that are living in certain areas that have waterbugs and such their bodies have become used to the local stuff in the water. So they can drink the water and not got sick because their body has it all the time and can fight it off.
A newcomer to the area won't have that luxury.
My doctor traveled alot to S America and found the same thing.
While in Colorado a few years ago I got the beaver fever from the water yet my uncle didn't because he drinks from it all the time.
As for me I treat with Aquamira tabs , I spoke with Aquamira and they stated that if filtering after treating that the time could be cut to 30 minutes. ( I may try the MSR if the become available here) then filter with the Frontier Pro gravity it is light weight and I have been looking into the sawyer inline as well when I replace the Frontier Pro.
I have had the badge of the fever and don't want it again.
AS for chlorine and I suppose Iodine is the same be aware that for long term it will kill the good flora in your body so your will get the runs because you have sanitized your system.

 

[Randle]

I agree 100%! When I was in Panama, Iraq and the Stans, the locals could drink straight from the stream, but if we did that we would be sick as a dog.

I've had beaver fever a couple times, but the last time was nasty! I bent over to puke in the toilet and pooped on the wall behind me I started filtering my water after that!

I hope to never see that in the video section on DIY

 

[trophyhill]

I cut and pasted this from an old thread. You guys may find this interesting...

Just read this online. I don't know if it's true but it makes me laugh at all the guys telling me I NEED a filter (not here).

"I have not heard this about AM (Aquamira). Waiting to see what evidence there is either way. Last I read on their site they were waiting for FDA approval to make certain claims about the product anyway. I tried it and didn't like the taste.

As to bleach. If you go that route use unscented. The scent stuff is a poison and will make you sick or worse. And if you follow the recommendation of survival class, CDC, or FEMA you should treat, wait 30 minutes and smell the water. If you cannot smell the chlorine in the water, you have to add the same amount again and wait another 30 minutes and smell again. If you cannot smell the chlorine yet, then you are supposed to dump it and find another water source - that source is too contaminated for bleach to kill it and still be safe to drink. So basic rule of thumb is if you cannot taste or smell the chlorine, you are not using enough.

As to iodine - Basically if you encounter water that is lightly to moderately contaminated and follow the package recommendations, then you are probably going to be fine. And the entire time the iodine is in the water, it is working. So if you take a drink at a half hour, you have less protection than you will when you take another drink from that water 30 minutes later or an hour later - then you are getting a higher protection level than is required by the FDA. When you filter and there is something in the water, it gets the chance to come back as it sits in your bottle. But as to water quality in the back country - there has never been a study of the water on the AT, but from anecdotal evidence (the fact that some people that never treat or filter don't get sick, and the general consensus being that most stomach bugs are probably hand to mouth passing of other diseases) one can assume that the water along the AT is either not contaminated by Giardia or crypto in most places; and in the places it is: the contamination is so low it wouldn't cause most healthy people that drink it to get sick.

To the safety of iodine. You already eat it regularly in salt - read the package, it is iodized. The reason for that is you need iodine in your system to prevent goiters. And a recent article I read said with the low salt craze in America that most people are not getting the RDA of iodine now anyway - so if you increase your iodine intake for a few months it probably won't hurt the average healthy person. Plus you can neutralize the iodine with VitC after it has done it's job.

And as to filters - Roland Meusser, in his book, has data that shows in laboratory controlled tests that filters are only 70% effective against Giardia after they have been used regularly. The stats on filters are only when they are new. Compare that to Iodine treatment in the same study that found the iodine to be greater than 90% effective when used according to the package recommendations. And 99% when given longer periods of time. Plus filters do not stop any viruses - even the filter makers recommend using chlorine or iodine in addition to their filters to protect against viruses. The last big outbreak of illness on the AT was HepA - a virus. I've never heard of a big outbreak of Giardia or crypto on the AT, while there have been many many cases of stomach viruses every year on the AT. Hmmmm....

Anyway, we didn't have filters for years in the back-country and everyone survived without them. Now that filter companies are selling them to backpackers, our water has suddenly become very very dangerous and the battle cry is "I don't want to take any chances" LOL. The best thing you can do is practice good hygiene. If you really don't want to take chances you would bring a filter with iodine and wash your hands like a doctor."

And this...

"I just read an article in a BackpackingLight magazine about effectiveness in treating the biofilm present in most water sources. Most treatments are lab-tested against free-floating organisms, which are harder to kill once they "congregate" into colonies protected by a biofilm. In summary, the findings highlighted that water filters were ineffective, and in fact biofilm can propogate around the filter elements. Aqua Mira was consistently the most effective, especially at 2X dosage levels, with the Miox UV pen giving marginal results. The iodine crystals of Polar Pure did not fare well in these tests."

Anyone have this article?

good read Conlan. thanks for sharing.

 

[slim9300]

good read Conlan. thanks for sharing.

No problem David.

 

[justin davis]

I agree with locals being immune. I had a lengthy conversation with Patrick Smith about this at a kifaru rondy one year. Patrick said he has traveled all over the world. Never treating his water and has never gotten sick.

When I was a young boy I drank from creeks and the south platte river. I remember being at football practice and running out of water so I drank a bunch from the river to cure my thrist.

One year on a camping trip. I was telling friends of my theory to "beaver fever immunity." They said what ever proof it. I filled up a nalgene strait from a beaver pond. And proceeded to chug the water down. I have never gotten sick with beaver fever in my whole life.

With that said I usually treat my water. But I do still think that it is possible to be immune to things if you grew up drinking the water from a young age. Interesting.

 

[cmeier117]

The nice thing about where I hunted last year is there are 3-4 springs that are all within a 3 mile radius of each other and are near where I would set up camp. The guide outfitters had huge metal troughs flown in so they and there horses could get fresh water. I still filter because it is just sitting there but it is cold and it is crystal clear.

 

[MIKEYB]

So Aron, Are you using some type of filter in addition to the Aquamira or MSR tabs? I'm under the impression that you just use the tabs.


I've had beaver fever a couple times, but the last time was nasty! I bent over to puke in the toilet and pooped on the wall behind me I started filtering my water after that![/QUOTE]

 

[Aron Snyder]

If I know that water is clean (no dirt, mud), than I will just take the pills along. If I'm headed into unknown wilderness, than I'll take both.

One of the areas we hunt is elk piss infested, so we pump and use aquamira (even theough the water is clean from debris) just to get the elk piss taste out of it.

 

[les welch]

I've had beaver fever a couple times, but the last time was nasty! I bent over to puke in the toilet and pooped on the wall behind me

WTF is wrong with you? Gotta say I laughed though

 

[tim tarras]

I've had beaver fever a couple times, but the last time was nasty! I bent over to puke in the toilet and pooped on the wall behind me I started filtering my water after that!

Funny. But how do I get that image out of my head?

 

[Aron Snyder]

I was to sick to clean it, so it was there for a couple days too!

 

[Mike7]

All of these illnesses can be hit or miss it seems depending upon the load of organisms in the water and each person's natural immunity to handle a particular level of insult. Sometimes intestinal symptoms can occur even from a non-invasive organism that produces a toxin...and it would be this toxin that local people may have resistance to from their prior exposures typically, and not any significant resistance to the organism itself often. Cryptosporidium is a self-limiting infection that is not too severe for most people. It is quite a nuissance though and you will need to keep a steady supply of Desitin around for 3-5 weeks (can be a big problem for long haul truck drivers though I suppose).

I have never heard of people being immune to Giardia although I think some people may be more resistant and require a larger insult or Giardia load to get an infection. I have also seen many people who failed Naturopathic therapy for Giardia, so be aware that a person may require traditional medications for eradication of Giardia, as well as alternative supplements/probiotics/etc. to get their full bowel functioning back and decrease the post Giardia infection bowel irritability.

Like many here I'm sure, I drank unfiltered, untreated water out of cold, clear running streams and springs with and without beavers in them constantly (weekly and sometimes daily) in the Southern Oregon mountains, and without ever contracting a serious infection. This is no claim on the cleanliness of all of the water I drank however, as a study of one does not a study make. It just says that I did not have an insult of organisms large enough from any of my specific water exposures to cause illness. Now, besides not being as resilient as I was when younger, I also choose not to take that chance, especially while traveling in the woods and drinking water from the first available source I come to.

I am trying the Aquamira drops for freezing temps this year, but would like to be able to depend on something like the Steripen. I have just read so many varying reviews on reliability, etc. Bitterroot, is there a particular model that you have experience with and which has been durable and seemingly effective?

 

[MattB]

I agree 100%! When I was in Panama, Iraq and the Stans, the locals could drink straight from the stream, but if we did that we would be sick as a dog.

I've had beaver fever a couple times, but the last time was nasty! I bent over to puke in the toilet and pooped on the wall behind me I started filtering my water after that!

The time I had what I think was crypto I woke up at 3AM and had to right cr@p now. Luckily this all took place in a 3-walled outhouse. When I was done with my business, I turned 180 degrees and bent over to grab some TP. Just bending caused a shower to my 6 o'clock and it was a miracle it all cleared my pants. No harm no foul, but never again.