Glock 20 modifications for backcountry carry

[thinhorn_AK]

My Glock is still under 100 rounds I think total. I have a heavier spring coming I think that is the problem. Teamkabob is going to mail me one from a place near him.

I was told and tend to agree that the heavier spring is really only needed if you are shooting s steady diet of heavy/hot Ammo out of the gun. Makes sense to me, but I’m not really an expert on slide velocity etc.

Seems like the downside to the heavy spring is that it wouldn’t work all that well with normal range Ammo so you’d just switch it when carrying the gun with hot Ammo...dosent make a lot of sense to me.

Anyways, I hope you get it figured out, I’ve been using Glock 20s up here in AK for awhile now, it’s pretty much my EDC, hunting, fishing, snow machining, jet boating, pack rafting I pretty much always have one with me, never been let down by one.

 

[mcseal2]

I'm no expert either. I'm just trying to find an accurate and reliable combo for shooting the heavy bullets. I am going to try a heavier spring and see what happens. It's a pretty cheap fix if it works.

My goal is to find a heavy load that I don't have to change my sights for. I'd love to be able to shoot the Fiocchi stuff I'm shooting now around home where there are no bears and then head west with HC loads changing as little as possible.

That Underwood Extreme penetrator ammo is expensive, but might have been a good option to just shoot with stock everything.

 

[mcseal2]

Got 3 mags through the G20 with the KKM barrel and Fiocchi ammo today before work. I had no failures of any kind with the 180gr JHP ammo. Shot pretty good too. I put it on paper again and was really conscious of my sight picture and not limp wristing the gun. I'm still a shade right and high, but better than yesterday when I really concentrated. The HC ammo still jammed, I'm waiting on the new spring to try again.

I thought of one thing I hadn't mentioned. When I re-assemble my Glock I have to move the trigger slightly forward to get the slide to go on and lock. I had a little trouble with that until I watched a YouTube video showing that trick. If anyone gets one it might be something to remember. It works fine if I do this.

 

[Wrench]

Got 3 mags through the G20 with the KKM barrel and Fiocchi ammo today before work. I had no failures of any kind with the 180gr JHP ammo. Shot pretty good too. I put it on paper again and was really conscious of my sight picture and not limp wristing the gun. I'm still a shade right and high, but better than yesterday when I really concentrated. The HC ammo still jammed, I'm waiting on the new spring to try again.

I thought of one thing I hadn't mentioned. When I re-assemble my Glock I have to move the trigger slightly forward to get the slide to go on and lock. I had a little trouble with that until I watched a YouTube video showing that trick. If anyone gets one it might be something to remember. It works fine if I do this.

Pull the barrel and drop test your ammo.

 

[mcseal2]

By this you mean drop a loaded round into the barrel and see if it goes in fully? I'm not familiar with that term.

If so I did that just now, tried 5 different rounds and all fit just a bit loose, easy in and out. That could be taken the wrong way...

 

[FLAK]

KKM Barrel and 23 lb spring for my 30SF shooting 45 Supers.

 

[Fatcamp]

Did you try it with the stock barrel?

 

[dla]

The weight with the TLR-1 light and KKM barrel of my Glock with 15 rounds loaded is 45oz. Not a feather by any means, but still less than the empty weight of the 1911 I really liked.

Hmmmm, my 5" 1911 weighs 37oz empty, 45oz loaded. And just a bit of trivia, my SW329pd weighs 31oz loaded.

 

[FLAK]

Did you try it with the stock barrel?

Havent tried the Supers in the stock barrel but there is a noticeable difference in accuracy in that KKM barrel shooting reg. 45's/

 

[mcseal2]

Only a few rounds. I am no Glock expert, but the leading problems I read about with the stock barrel worried me. Maybe its nothing, maybe it is, I don't honestly know. I just want a problem free gun like the 357 revolver it's replacing.

 

[mcseal2]

Hmmmm, my 5" 1911 weighs 37oz empty, 45oz loaded. And just a bit of trivia, my SW329pd weighs 31oz loaded.

I understand. I am second guessing my choices a bit at this point to be honest. I still think if I get the Glock dialed in it will be the lightest option with all the features I want. I want a rail to be able to put a light on, I want night sights, I want 10mm with a full size grip. I also want a gun with a ton of holster options available and I'm impressed with the Razco ones I have.

With my Glock I'm getting closer to the Sig or Springfield 1911's I liked in price and weight than I planned on when starting this project. I've added a shade over 5oz with the light and barrel that were all my choice, so that needs factored in. It's my own fault that I didn't do enough research about Glock barrels and springs before my purchase and spent extra money there. It's also a bit of a crapshoot figuring hot HC ammo out after doing research between people who have no issues with everything stock, and those who modify. Either way I can't cuss Glock. My gun shoots accurately and reliably with normal jacketed 180gr ammo and the stock components. That's what the majority of customers shoot. I guess after my rifle experiences I understand making a few changes to a stock gun to make it right for me.

I shot the 5.5"44 Redhawk I sold enough to know I don't shoot a revolver that big with that much recoil as well as I do this Glock. With plain Remington 240gr JHP ammo it rocked me pretty good even at 55 or so oz empty. I don't think a 329 is right for me, as tempting as the weight is. My 386XL Hunter 357 is pretty hard to beat for me. The S&W 69 with Buffalo Bore managed recoil ammo is the 44 I feel would fit me the best, but after shooting hot 10mm's I don't think the recoil compares to even a mid range 44 in a revolver. I think I'd be better off with my 357 I know and hot loads than any 44. I think I can fit my needs better right now with the 10mm than any revolver round.

I've always liked 357's as a good balance of power and recoil. The 10mm is right there in energy numbers, and the platforms it's available in lend themselves toward accuracy on multiple shots. It's no 44 in power but shot placement still trumps energy every time. It's enough in the right place in my opinion and offers more chance for multiple rounds on target than any other option. Don't count on extra rounds on target, but take advantage of them if possible! Also night sights and a light rail are undeniable advantages in many situations. I love my revolvers, but have to be honest about their limitations in some scenarios. Hunting is different than unplanned defense.

I'm actually looking at trading another pistol off on another 10mm. I've always liked having two ways to fire any ammo I have on hand. I'm debating between a 10mm 1911 and a 10mm Sig 220 SAO. If I get another one I want the trigger pull of a hammer fired gun. I want to be able to carry it cocked and locked so I don't have the long trigger pull on the first shot in a hurry. I am a huge fan of 1911's and would normally go that route, but for this guns use I question it a bit.

If I'm honest with myself any 10mm I have will be a woods carry gun. If I have a hammer fired one with the trigger I love, I'll likely carry it over the G20 any time weight isn't a big factor. That means the sandy river I fish a lot, the swamps I hope to moose hunt in again, lots of really dirty terrain is where this pistol will be. I want it to be another option to the G20 for just as bad of conditions.

A 1911 I have no issue with on reliability, trigger, I really like them. The only 2 reasons that have me considering other options are:

1. Grip safety: Is the benefit of having this as an added safety feature better than the negative of it being another place for debris or mud to cause failure?

2. This is the primary reason: A 1911 is a lot easier to loose parts from taking it down to clean it after a slide down a muddy hill, sand blasting on the river I fish, lots of other adverse conditions. I've taken the Ruger P97 I've been packing on the river apart and cleaned it up a lot of times in a few seconds. I started carrying it over my 386 due to the ease of cleaning after a river trip filling it with sand. That's not a big deal when I can clean the gun at home in an environment where I'm guaranteed to find everything if I slip up compressing the spring, but is a bigger factor 100 miles from civilization in Alaska.

I have a Sig 226 with a 22LR, 9mm, and 40 conversion kits. It's been my nightstand gun for a few years and nothing other than the 22LR kit has ever failed to feed or function in any way when I've taken it out to shoot it. It is the simplest thing to take apart and wipe down components I've ever fired I think. A 220 SAO would be heavy but similar in the important features. Only downside I really see is the lack of a grip safety (also on both my advantage & disadvantage 1911 list) meaning the trigger itself and mechanical safety are the only things preventing an accidental discharge.

 

[dla]

I understand. I am second guessing my choices a bit at this point to be honest. I still think if I get the Glock dialed in it will be the lightest option with all the features I want. I want a rail to be able to put a light on, I want night sights, I want 10mm with a full size grip. I also want a gun with a ton of holster options available and I'm impressed with the Razco ones I have.

With my Glock I'm getting closer to the Sig or Springfield 1911's I liked in price and weight than I planned on when starting this project. I've added a shade over 5oz with the light and barrel that were all my choice, so that needs factored in. It's my own fault that I didn't do enough research about Glock barrels and springs before my purchase and spent extra money there. It's also a bit of a crapshoot figuring hot HC ammo out after doing research between people who have no issues with everything stock, and those who modify. Either way I can't cuss Glock. My gun shoots accurately and reliably with normal jacketed 180gr ammo and the stock components. That's what the majority of customers shoot. I guess after my rifle experiences I understand making a few changes to a stock gun to make it right for me.

I shot the 5.5"44 Redhawk I sold enough to know I don't shoot a revolver that big with that much recoil as well as I do this Glock. With plain Remington 240gr JHP ammo it rocked me pretty good even at 55 or so oz empty. I don't think a 329 is right for me, as tempting as the weight is. My 386XL Hunter 357 is pretty hard to beat for me. The S&W 69 with Buffalo Bore managed recoil ammo is the 44 I feel would fit me the best, but after shooting hot 10mm's I don't think the recoil compares to even a mid range 44 in a revolver. I think I'd be better off with my 357 I know and hot loads than any 44. I think I can fit my needs better right now with the 10mm than any revolver round.

I've always liked 357's as a good balance of power and recoil. The 10mm is right there in energy numbers, and the platforms it's available in lend themselves toward accuracy on multiple shots. It's no 44 in power but shot placement still trumps energy every time. It's enough in the right place in my opinion and offers more chance for multiple rounds on target than any other option. Don't count on extra rounds on target, but take advantage of them if possible! Also night sights and a light rail are undeniable advantages in many situations. I love my revolvers, but have to be honest about their limitations in some scenarios. Hunting is different than unplanned defense.

I'm actually looking at trading another pistol off on another 10mm. I've always liked having two ways to fire any ammo I have on hand. I'm debating between a 10mm 1911 and a 10mm Sig 220 SAO. If I get another one I want the trigger pull of a hammer fired gun. I want to be able to carry it cocked and locked so I don't have the long trigger pull on the first shot in a hurry. I am a huge fan of 1911's and would normally go that route, but for this guns use I question it a bit.

If I'm honest with myself any 10mm I have will be a woods carry gun. If I have a hammer fired one with the trigger I love, I'll likely carry it over the G20 any time weight isn't a big factor. That means the sandy river I fish a lot, the swamps I hope to moose hunt in again, lots of really dirty terrain is where this pistol will be. I want it to be another option to the G20 for just as bad of conditions.

A 1911 I have no issue with on reliability, trigger, I really like them. The only 2 reasons that have me considering other options are:

1. Grip safety: Is the benefit of having this as an added safety feature better than the negative of it being another place for debris or mud to cause failure?

2. This is the primary reason: A 1911 is a lot easier to loose parts from taking it down to clean it after a slide down a muddy hill, sand blasting on the river I fish, lots of other adverse conditions. I've taken the Ruger P97 I've been packing on the river apart and cleaned it up a lot of times in a few seconds. I started carrying it over my 386 due to the ease of cleaning after a river trip filling it with sand. That's not a big deal when I can clean the gun at home in an environment where I'm guaranteed to find everything if I slip up compressing the spring, but is a bigger factor 100 miles from civilization in Alaska.

I have a Sig 226 with a 22LR, 9mm, and 40 conversion kits. It's been my nightstand gun for a few years and nothing other than the 22LR kit has ever failed to feed or function in any way when I've taken it out to shoot it. It is the simplest thing to take apart and wipe down components I've ever fired I think. A 220 SAO would be heavy but similar in the important features. Only downside I really see is the lack of a grip safety (also on both my advantage & disadvantage 1911 list) meaning the trigger itself and mechanical safety are the only things preventing an accidental discharge.

I know this sounds gross, but I clean a 1911 by swooshing it around in the water and shaking it off. Very old design, and I know it looks somewhat fragile - but it is not. I don't recommend throwing a 1911 in the mud, but it really won't bother it. (yes, give it a thorough cleaning/lubing later)

OTOH, a revolver can get gunk in places where it will take a screwdriver to disassemble to clean. But I've never dumped a revolver in the muck - so I'm not talking from experience. Other than chambering a cartridge not available in a semi-auto, a revolver really only has one advantage (in my mind anyway) - contact shooting. All semi-autos I'm familiar with will go out of battery if you push on the muzzle. There is a fellow on this board that got tackled & munched by a sow grizzly - she left him alone after 5 contact shots from his 329pd - he had hair on his front sight afterwards.

 

[2Stamp]

I know this sounds gross, but I clean a 1911 by swooshing it around in the water and shaking it off. Very old design, and I know it looks somewhat fragile - but it is not. I don't recommend throwing a 1911 in the mud, but it really won't bother it. (yes, give it a thorough cleaning/lubing later)

OTOH, a revolver can get gunk in places where it will take a screwdriver to disassemble to clean. But I've never dumped a revolver in the muck - so I'm not talking from experience. Other than chambering a cartridge not available in a semi-auto, a revolver really only has one advantage (in my mind anyway) - contact shooting. All semi-autos I'm familiar with will go out of battery if you push on the muzzle. There is a fellow on this board that got tackled & munched by a sow grizzly - she left him alone after 5 contact shots from his 329pd - he had hair on his front sight afterwards.

Good points. Reference contact shots; if running a pistol mounted light, and that light is longer than the barrel, this issue "may" be diminished. As long as the light contacts the object first.

Most don't know you can still get at least one shot off with a striker fired semi, at contact distances. Thumb on back of slide, pushing forward will hold the slide in battery. I've never tried it with a 10mm, let alone with heavy duty stuff. But I have with 9mm +p and 45 acp. If you look on youtube there is a guy that shows you can do it with a 10mm. Again, heavier than standard loads may be iffy. But if a bear "push came to shove", it IS and option. Just make that one shot count I guess. Whatever gun you take into the backcountry, you owe it to yourself to know how to use it, even if a contact shot is needed.

mcseal2, sorry for the left turn in the conversation.

 

[FLAK]

I Like my Glock but I like Revolvers too.
I would consider my Ruger Security Six ample protection. Loaded up with some 180 BB's is
good stuff. Prolly more FPE than my 45 Super or
a 10MM.

 

[mcseal2]

Tried a couple shots with the new recoil spring and started with 12 rounds in the magazine. It jammed on both with the 200gr Underwood. I have some 220gr ammo on order to try. I'm really not sure where to go from here other than to try some different ammo. It was the same problem as before, the slide is coming forward faster than the mag is bringing the ammo up by appearances. When I ordered the ammo I ordered a Wolf +10% mag spring too I can experiment with if I have to. I figured I might as well have it on hand since it was cheap and I was on a free shipping order.

I'll see my gunsmith on the 31st and send the Glock home with him if I don't have it figured out. I'll post what I do get figured out in case it helps others. He moved to Texas so is not as handy to use, but he does a good job.

 

[realunlucky]

Tried a couple shots with the new recoil spring and started with 12 rounds in the magazine. It jammed on both with the 200gr Underwood. I have some 220gr ammo on order to try. I'm really not sure where to go from here other than to try some different ammo. It was the same problem as before, the slide is coming forward faster than the mag is bringing the ammo up by appearances. When I ordered the ammo I ordered a Wolf +10% mag spring too I can experiment with if I have to. I figured I might as well have it on hand since it was cheap and I was on a free shipping order.

I'll see my gunsmith on the 31st and send the Glock home with him if I don't have it figured out. I'll post what I do get figured out in case it helps others. He moved to Texas so is not as handy to use, but he does a good job.

I had this problem with my kkm barrel using hot reloads and had to send it back for a bit more taper on the feed ramp.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[mcseal2]

I called KKM and described my issue. They didn't seem surprised and said the 200gr ammo is better with a 22lb recoil spring instead of the 24lb. They said the 24lb is better with 220 or 230gr bullets and extremely hot loads. They said to try that and call them if it doesn't work. The guy I talked to seemed both knowledgeable and helpful. I'm shooting only factory stuff through this gun. The Fiocchi 180gr JHP has yet to have an issue with any combo of recoil spring and barrel I tried, but the Underwood HC doesn't seem to want to feed with the new barrel and either recoil spring I've tried so far.

I have 2 boxes of Underwood 220gr ammo on order, plus I ordered a Glockmeister stainless 22lb recoil spring assembly to try. I hope one of these combos works. If so it will save a trip to the gunsmith and I can start building some confidence with my set-up.

 

[Rob5589]

Did you try the stock barrel and the UW? I couldn't find whether or not you had tried it.

 

[mcseal2]

I did and it fed ok, but only tried a couple rounds from a full mag. I didn't want to worry about the leading issue and plan to shoot a lot of HC practicing so I didn't shoot more through it.

If I had the whole process to start over again I might just have went with Underwood Extreme Penetrator 140's and stock everything to try. That or tried an XD or Sig 220. I like my Glock, just need to get it figured out.

 

[mcseal2]

I might have made progress.

I installed the Wolf magazine spring mentioned above and shot the Glock again with the 220gr HC Underwood ammo and KKM barrel. I wasn't real optimistic so I only loaded 5 in the magazine. I got all 5 to feed fine. I had forgot but I'd put the factory recoil spring and rod back in when I loaded the 180's back up after my earlier post. I shot those 5 with the factory recoil spring instead of the 24lb one. I had a friend show up to borrow a trailer then so I didn't get any more shooting done.

I need a much larger sample size, but it actually worked for those few rounds. Even better at 15 yards all the shots landed in the 3"x3" piece of cardboard I had stapled to the white paper on my target board. I need to shoot it further and more, but that showed promise.

Forgot to add I tried the 220gr Underwood ammo with both recoil springs and the KKM barrel before swapping the mag spring out. It failed to feed first shot with both before the mag spring change.