Garage Gym Athlete

[Ashy Larry]

I’ve seen this mentioned once or twice on here as a workout program. I’m mainly interested in their “shred” program.

Background: 39 years old 5’9” 177lbs. Lost 42 pounds this year, mostly lifting 3-4x a week and doing typically cardio (walk/run/bike/ruck). I’m really trying to knock out this last 15 and I’m thinking a targeted workout regime may be helpful. Diet is pretty dialed in 1800-2000 cals and 160+ grams of protein daily. Very seldom drinking.

Anyone got any feedback before I take the plunge?

 

[*zap*]

Liss daily for at least an hour. Conversation pace and fasted if possible.

 

[Ashy Larry]

Liss= low impact steady state? I’m already doing that. Brisk dog walks, slow jogs, gravel bike rides and rucking.

 

[*zap*]

Liss is at conversation pace heart rate. If your doing that pace then keep it up.

 

[P Carter]

Sounds to me like some simple but consistent strength training might do you good. Keep the aerobic work, maybe slowly work to walk/jog and then work into running, still at conversational pace, but add two or three strength sessions a week. Any program will work. Here’s one simple routine. (You don’t have to do all the exercises, pick 3 and go from there.)

General Strength Training for Mountaineers and Climbers

Our General Strength Training Routine for Mountaineers and Climbers relies on simple to learn, mostly body-weight exercises. The exercise list alternates

uphillathlete.com

If you have access to a gym, perhaps just do linear progressions of squat/deadlift and push-up/pullup. Or a similar pairing.

There are folks on here far more knowledgeable than I regarding strength training. I’d suggest that you pick a simple, straightforward program that focuses on linear progression rather than fancy “kick your butt” workouts, and one that you can stick with until….well…forever.

Edit: the poster above refers to Liss, which is low intensity steady state, which is the same as working at aerobic pace, which is the same as zone 2, which is the same as conversational pace. Doing aerobic work fasted doesn’t really do anything except maybe a slight shift in your ability to use fat as fuel rather than carbs as fuel (*not* a weight-loss concept, an energy-systems concept), but the consensus seems to be shifting towards the idea that it’s better to train fully fueled because 1) a better workout is overall better than the slight gain from doing it fasted and 2) better recovery/sufficient overall fueling is better than any slight gain from doing it fasted. But those arguments are mostly irrelevant to people that are just starting - far, far more important to be consistent, for like a year, and to avoid injury than to quibble about aerobic work being fasted or fueled.

 

[*zap*]

If your doing liss fasted your body burns fat. That is a weight loss tool. If you burn 400 calories of fat a day that you would have not burned if you were fed that is 3 pounds a month and generally it is the harder to lose gender specific fat. Plus your body is producing enzymes, building capillary density and mitochondrial efficiency.
If your doing liss fed your body burns the food/glucose/insulin.
1 hour of liss can be accomplished fasted without issues and recovery from liss is also not an issue.
If your doing more than an hour maybe have a bar at 45 minutes.
Aerobic capacity training done right at the top of conversation pace is extremely important for fitness.
Anything going over conversation pace releases glucose and defeats the main purpose of aerobic capacity training because your no longer burning fat.
Intense training has it's place but is separate. Jmo. Ymmv.

 

[mtnbound]

I’ve seen this mentioned once or twice on here as a workout program. I’m mainly interested in their “shred” program.

Background: 39 years old 5’9” 177lbs. Lost 42 pounds this year, mostly lifting 3-4x a week and doing typically cardio (walk/run/bike/ruck). I’m really trying to knock out this last 15 and I’m thinking a targeted workout regime may be helpful. Diet is pretty dialed in 1800-2000 cals and 160+ grams of protein daily. Very seldom drinking.

Anyone got any feedback before I take the plunge?

I have used their programs, mostly H2K, but I did do some cycles with Shred. I like how they have everything in blocks of time for workout time efficiency. It's a fairly good tracking app, and they do a good job of having a well-rounded program that isn't just a CrossFit High-Intensity approach every day.

 

[Ashy Larry]

Fwiw I’m currently weight lifting 3-4x a week focusing on compound lifts with some accessory work. Just looking for a new plan that’s more specific.

 

[mathews8pt]

I’ve seen this mentioned once or twice on here as a workout program. I’m mainly interested in their “shred” program.

Background: 39 years old 5’9” 177lbs. Lost 42 pounds this year, mostly lifting 3-4x a week and doing typically cardio (walk/run/bike/ruck). I’m really trying to knock out this last 15 and I’m thinking a targeted workout regime may be helpful. Diet is pretty dialed in 1800-2000 cals and 160+ grams of protein daily. Very seldom drinking.

Anyone got any feedback before I take the plunge?

177 lbs at 5' 9" isnt too bad depending on how much muscle your carrying. Im 5 10 and at 175 i easily had visible abs. I have big thighs and carry a lot of muscle in my legs but i cant imagine being 160 ish and carrying as much muscle as id like.

Curious why you picked 160? Losing that much weight is awesome, you may want to give your body a little time to tighten up if your worried about how you look right now. Maybe work on maintaining diet and adding muscle for a bit.

What do you do for your lifting currently? squat, bench, deads?

 

[P Carter]

If your doing liss fasted your body burns fat. That is a weight loss tool. If you burn 400 calories of fat a day that you would have not burned if you were fed that is 3 pounds a month and generally it is the harder to lose gender specific fat. Plus your body is producing enzymes, building capillary density and mitochondrial efficiency.
If your doing liss fed your body burns the food/glucose/insulin.
1 hour of liss can be accomplished fasted without issues and recovery from liss is also not an issue.
If your doing more than an hour maybe have a bar at 45 minutes.
Aerobic capacity training done right at the top of conversation pace is extremely important for fitness.
Anything going over conversation pace releases glucose and defeats the main purpose of aerobic capacity training because your no longer burning fat.
Intense training has it's place but is separate. Jmo. Ymmv.

Sorry, the assertion that doing LISS fasted will result in greater weight loss is just not true. If you control for total calories, weight loss will be the same, whether you work out fasted or not.

The statement about working over aerobic pace “releasing glucose” is also not accurate. Working over aerobic pace means your body is using the anaerobic pathway, which related to the use of oxygen. The aerobic pathway still uses glucose; it’s just more efficient due to lack of oxygen.

I agree that if you do an hour, but not more, it doesn’t matter whether you are fasted or not. (But that’s the point - it doesn’t matter - so there’s no need to advise doing it fasted.)

I also agree that consistent aerobic work is really good for you, for the reasons you list, but should be paired with strength training.

I say this not to start an argument with this poster. Just flagging to the OP to look into the issue himself before he takes this advice. Do the work, in a way that enables you to do it consistently. Doesn’t matter whether you eat before or during.

Op, there are some real experts on here. I’m not one of them, but I do keep up in the area and have done a variety of athletic endeavors. Make sure you run down the source of your advice.

 

[P Carter]

Fwiw I’m currently weight lifting 3-4x a week focusing on compound lifts with some accessory work. Just looking for a new plan that’s more specific.

More specific to what?

Try picking up the book “training for the new alpinism.” It’s quite good and can help you build a program that’s specific and much better than anything off the shelf.

 

[*zap*]

Sorry, the assertion that doing LISS fasted will result in greater weight loss is just not true. If you control for total calories, weight loss will be the same, whether you work out fasted or not.

The statement about working over aerobic pace “releasing glucose” is also not accurate. Working over aerobic pace means your body is using the anaerobic pathway, which related to the use of oxygen. The aerobic pathway still uses glucose; it’s just more efficient due to lack of oxygen.

I agree that if you do an hour, but not more, it doesn’t matter whether you are fasted or not. (But that’s the point - it doesn’t matter - so there’s no need to advise doing it fasted.)

I also agree that consistent aerobic work is really good for you, for the reasons you list, but should be paired with strength training.

I say this not to start an argument with this poster. Just flagging to the OP to look into the issue himself before he takes this advice. Do the work, in a way that enables you to do it consistently. Doesn’t matter whether you eat before or during.

Op, there are some real experts on here. I’m not one of them, but I do keep up in the area and have done a variety of athletic endeavors. Make sure you run down the source of your advice.

Don't agree with what your saying there but that's ok. I have done this over time and seen what happens....especially when the hard to lose fat goes bye-bye. I never counted calories and had great results. Eat wholesome natural foods and liss up to 90 minutes+ daily....fasted, after 45 minutes or so have a small cliff bar. My advice is good advice and proven over time & experience.
Have you done daily liss fasted for 3 months or more?
As far as garage gym goes a good kettlebell set and a landmine set up would be awesome.

 

[Ashy Larry]

I have a good set of KBs and a land mine attachment on my squat rack

 

[*zap*]

I have a good set of KBs and a land mine attachment on my squat rack

Awesome, your in the $........great set up for a smaller space.

 

[P Carter]

Don't agree with what your saying there but that's ok. I have done this over time and seen what happens....especially when the hard to lose fat goes bye-bye. I never counted calories and had great results. Eat wholesome natural foods and liss up to 90 minutes+ daily....fasted, after 45 minutes or so have a small cliff bar. My advice is good advice and proven over time & experience.
Have you done daily liss fasted for 3 months or more?
As far as garage gym goes a good kettlebell set and a landmine set up would be awesome.

I promise, this will be my last post on this.

What's your athletic background and your goals? Not to be disrespectful, but as I recall, aren't you a 60+ fellow that doesn't do really do endurance-type activities? (Obviously, I could be totally wrong at that - not a personal attack, just trying to get good info to OP.)

For context, I'm 40 years old, done a number of ultra runs and ultra-distance endeavors -- I try to get at least one in a year. I boxed in college, so have done a lot of high-intensity stuff as well as endurance-based stuff. For boxing, I obviously focused on weight loss, though that was never really an issue, since at that age with structured training it's just not that hard.

I'm also currently 5 11, 175 lbs, so pretty close to the OPs numbers in relevant respects.

I actually agree that aerobic activity of an hour or so a day will foster weight loss. (Of course it will.) The point is that the "fasted" part of it just doesn't matter, and as such shouldn't be advised to a newcomer.

In recent years, I did two years of training where I did most of my runs fasted, up to 18 miles. Not to induce fat loss - that's never been a goal of mine other than in college as noted- but rather to try and develop the aerobic pathway to optimize use of fat as fuel rather than carbs.

After doing a deeper dive and looking at the evolving thinking on the issue, over the past 1.5ish years I changed focus to fueling. I'll still do fasted runs if that's more convenient. But when I have time, I will eat, and during long runs I'll emphasize getting enough fuel.

The run-to-run (or day-to-day) difference is not that significant - if I do one fasted run it's not a problem, and vice-versa. But overall, focusing on fueling has proven better for me. For example, if I'm focusing on fueling, I can recover from a morning run and feel much, much better during the noon weightlifting session. The difference on long runs is really stark. If I focus on getting 300 calories per hour on a long run, when I'm done, the recovery is almost immediate. Fasted, it takes several hours to get anywhere close to recovered.

I don't run enough events to quantify a change in performance. What I can say is what I have said - even the literature that advocates *for* fasted runs don't say it'll lead to fat or weight loss. The benefits of fasted aerobic exercise, if they exist, seem marginal at best; focused on developing the aerobic pathway, not fat loss; and irrelevant to people that aren't really focused on specific performance goals.

To the OP, to me it sounds like you're on a great track. Sorry for derailing the thread a bit, won't continue more.

 

[robby denning]

. Lost 42 pounds this year, mostly lifting 3-4x a week and doing typically cardio (walk/run/bike/ruck). I’m really trying to knock out this last 15 and I’m thinking a targeted workout regime may be helpful. Diet is pretty dialed in 1800-2000 cals and 160+ grams of protein daily. Very seldom drinking.

Great job! That is impressive. You did yourself a big favor getting that weight off, maintenance is for life. Keep it up, brother!

Ultimately, I had to quit drinking to keep my weight down. For me it was just an appetite stimulant! Drink a few beers and then eat an entire bag of crap that I normally wouldn’t touch or eat more than a handful.

 

[Ashy Larry]

Sidenote: I “fast” almost daily until lunch. I eat dinner early so this ends up being 16/8 or 17/7 most days. I typically work out in the morning so almost always my cardio or weight sessions are fasted.

I’m simply in a plateau and thought maybe a targeted program would help me.

 

[*zap*]

Yes, I have managed to live long enough to gain life experience that someone 40 has not had and as far as overall fitness I am in the top 10% of my peers. Last blood test my total t was 901 @67.
I do not do competitive endurance activities...which does not mean I do not engage in endurance activities.
Pretty simply put the op stated he was having trouble losing the last 15 pounds...I suggested using fasted liss to lose that, and fasted liss will lose that.
I will say it again:
If you do an hour of cardio just below or at your aerobic capacity while fasted your body will have no choice but to fuel the atp production with fat. That fat is used up.
If your fed and have insulin in your bloodstream your body will not use that same amount of fat.
No way around that.
Most people never see the results of actual liss because they do not think the pace is great enough to produce results so they go higher heart rate. They 'want it now and faster'...nothing wrong with higher heart rate cardio/exercise but I thought we wanted to lose that last 15#.

 

[*zap*]

Sidenote: I “fast” almost daily until lunch. I eat dinner early so this ends up being 16/8 or 17/7 most days. I typically work out in the morning so almost always my cardio or weight sessions are fasted.

I’m simply in a plateau and thought maybe a targeted program would help me.

Are you doing your liss before or after any strength training(high heart rate)?
Are you monitoring your heart rate for your cardio?

If your liver is releasing a bunch of glucose before/during your cardio it may not matter if you are fasted....your atp production will not be totally from oxygen burning fat.

 

[Ashy Larry]

I wear my Fenix 5X. Its not super accurate but I make a lot of phone calls while doing cardio so I know I’m at the upper level of “conversation pace”

Cardio typically takes place after weights