First Custom Build

[RHoyland4]

I am new to Rokslide and am looking to build my first custom bolt gun. I have built multiple AR platforms in the past. I do not have any machining capabilities so am looking to use a prefit barrel.

I am looking to use a Defiance action but cannot decide between the Classic, Renegade or Anti. I am leaning towards the Renegade, but cannot find a weight on it. Does anyone know what the weight is?

The remainder of the build is:

Proof 20" or 22" 7mm PRC
Manners MCS-PH
Hawkins M5 DBM
Timney or Trigger Tech
Zeis V6 5-30x50

I am looking to take some long range shooting classes but also use it to elk, mule deer and aoudad sheep hunt.

Any suggestions or things to watch out for since this is my first build?

 

[JohnJohnson]

Zeis V6 5-30x50

I don't want to sound too direct about it but since this is the long range hunting section of the forum, get a first focal plane scope. I think the biggest thing that sticks out to me with your build is you chose a second focal plane optic. If you planned to buy it at its roughly $2,300 price, there are extremely nice first focal plane options which will suit your purposes better.*

*Assuming you will be using this for long range, since this is the long range section of the forum.

Edit: Also get the FFP scope in MIL, not MOA. As much as some people who don't understand how scopes work will tell you "I think in inches", it is not a compelling argument. Oh and you don't need that much magnification in a hunting scope. Probably don't need anything over 16-20 power.

 

[Bojangles21]

As much as I agree with johnnohnson about buying a FFP over SFP, the whole “Mils only, no moa” is some silly info. They’re literally both used by hunters and PRS shooters world wide. Get what your friends have that you’ll be shooting with. It’s never fun when one of the homies has the opposite of what everyone else in the group has. Don’t “think in inches” for MOA, and don’t “think in cm” for MILS… buy what your friends have or since you’re new to the long game, buy whatever you feel like learning, there is literally no difference in the two, other than under 1” at a thousand yards for 1 click but that doesn’t meant jack. Look at leupold mark 5s for a scope. The 3.6-18s are one of my fav scopes to exsist, I have 3 different custom guns with them, and one with a new maven RS.4, love that as well.


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[JohnJohnson]

buy what your friends have

Agreed on that. My MIL advice really only applies if you are not hunting/shooting with a predominately MOA group.

since you’re new to the long game, buy whatever you feel like learning, there is literally no difference in the two

It's precisely because he's new to the long game that I said to buy MIL. It's a slightly better system in every way for every kind of LR shooting other than F-Class. There is a difference, though small. But if he's starting out why not go with the slightly better one?

Edit: I don't want to derail this thread into that tired discussion because it goes the same way every time. For more information on SFP vs FFP and MOA vs MRAD see the thread below. It's not really a debate. The OP of that thread was eventually convinced, maybe you will be too.

SFP is BETTER than FFP for LR Hunting... Change My Mind

Did my clickbait get you? Good, because I really want to learn more and provoke some good discussion here! I'm new here and not trolling, just trying to learn more about the popular preference for FFP/MIL scopes over SFP/MOA. I'll start by describing why I am an SFP/MOA user: I have an...

rokslide.com

 

[Bojangles21]

Agreed on that. My MIL advice really only applies if you are not hunting/shooting with a predominately MOA group.

It's precisely because he's new to the long game that I said to buy MIL. It's a slightly better system in every way for every kind of LR shooting other than F-Class. There is a difference, though small. But if he's starting out why not go with the slightly better one?

Edit: I don't want to derail this thread into that tired discussion because it goes the same way every time. For more information on SFP vs FFP and MOA vs MRAD see the thread below. It's not really a debate. The OP of that thread was eventually convinced, maybe you will be too.

SFP is BETTER than FFP for LR Hunting... Change My Mind

Did my clickbait get you? Good, because I really want to learn more and provoke some good discussion here! I'm new here and not trolling, just trying to learn more about the popular preference for FFP/MIL scopes over SFP/MOA. I'll start by describing why I am an SFP/MOA user: I have an...

rokslide.com

If you have no preference and starting out, I’d agree and say get mils, seems every year mrad gets more and more popular, but moa does everything mils do, just depends on the shooter and who you’re around. Also if you ever plan to do any matches, mils wins most likely be a friend since most people do use mrad. But neither is better or more accurate than the other.

This is more directed to the OP, I don’t mean to quote you in this John.

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[KelsoBrowny]

Built my first one last year, and if you’re like me and you can’t see yourself justifying a second custom rifle - Go with the Anti or Anti X.

I’ve upgraded my stock since i built it, will likely change caliber - but every-time i look at how to get it lighter or what i’d change - I wish i would’ve went with one of those two over the tenacity for the few hundred bucks.

 

[JohnJohnson]

By the way if you're mainly set on using prefits what made the Defiance stand out over an Impact NBK or a Lone Peak Razor Ti? I don't have a strong opinion on any of them, just wondering.

 

[RHoyland4]

I don't want to sound too direct about it but since this is the long range hunting section of the forum, get a first focal plane scope. I think the biggest thing that sticks out to me with your build is you chose a second focal plane optic. If you planned to buy it at its roughly $2,300 price, there are extremely nice first focal plane options which will suit your purposes better.*

*Assuming you will be using this for long range, since this is the long range section of the forum.

Edit: Also get the FFP scope in MIL, not MOA. As much as some people who don't understand how scopes work will tell you "I think in inches", it is not a compelling argument. Oh and you don't need that much magnification in a hunting scope. Probably don't need anything over 16-20 power.

Thanks for your input. I had not thought about FFP. I am assuming you are recommending them so I can use the holds at any power vs just at high power?

I am a MOA guy even though I have not played with it at long distances. All my other scopes are MOA. My intent would be to dial for yardage and hold for wind age.

At least at his time I don’t intend to do any competitions, just take a class or 2 and shoot steel at the ranch.

 

[Bojangles21]

Thanks for your input. I had not thought about FFP. I am assuming you are recommending them so I can use the holds at any power vs just at high power?

I am a MOA guy even though I have not played with it at long distances. All my other scopes are MOA. My intent would be to dial for yardage and hold for wind age.

At least at his time I don’t intend to do any competitions, just take a class or 2 and shoot steel at the ranch.

Stick with Moa then


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[JohnJohnson]

Thanks for your input. I had not thought about FFP. I am assuming you are recommending them so I can use the holds at any power vs just at high power?

That's correct. It would probably benefit you to read this thread. Given all your other scopes are MOA there's not much harm sticking with it but I'd strongly encourage you to go with a FFP scope.

SFP is BETTER than FFP for LR Hunting... Change My Mind

Did my clickbait get you? Good, because I really want to learn more and provoke some good discussion here! I'm new here and not trolling, just trying to learn more about the popular preference for FFP/MIL scopes over SFP/MOA. I'll start by describing why I am an SFP/MOA user: I have an...

rokslide.com

 

[RHoyland4]

Built my first one last year, and if you’re like me and you can’t see yourself justifying a second custom rifle - Go with the Anti or Anti X.

I’ve upgraded my stock since i built it, will likely change caliber - but every-time i look at how to get it lighter or what i’d change - I wish i would’ve went with one of those two over the tenacity for the few hundred bucks.

I’m trying to stay under $3,500 for the rifle, but keep thinking about just using the Anti. All depends on the weight of the Renegade. I’ve sent an email to Defiance this morning, but did not hear back yet.

 

[RHoyland4]

By the way if you're mainly set on using prefits what made the Defiance stand out over an Impact NBK or a Lone Peak Razor Ti? I don't have a strong opinion on any of them, just wondering.

I have a friend who him and his buddies have been building with them and like them, so just recommendation. I would really like an action with a 75deg or less bolt throw, but haven’t found one that is under 30oz.

I don't want to sound too direct about it but since this is the long range hunting section of the forum, get a first focal plane scope. I think the biggest thing that sticks out to me with your build is you chose a second focal plane optic. If you planned to buy it at its roughly $2,300 price, there are extremely nice first focal plane options which will suit your purposes better.*

*Assuming you will be using this for long range, since this is the long range section of the forum.

Edit: Also get the FFP scope in MIL, not MOA. As much as some people who don't understand how scopes work will tell you "I think in inches", it is not a compelling argument. Oh and you don't need that much magnification in a hunting scope. Probably don't need anything over 16-20 power.

I don't want to sound too direct about it but since this is the long range hunting section of the forum, get a first focal plane scope. I think the biggest thing that sticks out to me with your build is you chose a second focal plane optic. If you planned to buy it at its roughly $2,300 price, there are extremely nice first focal plane options which will suit your purposes better.*

*Assuming you will be using this for long range, since this is the long range section of the forum.

Edit: Also get the FFP scope in MIL, not MOA. As much as some people who don't understand how scopes work will tell you "I think in inches", it is not a compelling argument. Oh and you don't need that much magnification in a hunting scope. Probably don't need anything over 16-20 power.

I forgot to as what the reason is for not needing over 16-20 power is? I hunt with a 6-24 now.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I forgot to as what the reason is for not needing over 16-20 power is? I hunt with a 6-24 now.

Even PRS shooters with 25# competition rifles chambered in 6mm cartridges don't go over about 18 magnification normally. If you want to be able to spot your own shots (which you should) on a hunting weight rifle, most guys are below 15 power for hunting situations. Low power preserves field of view for re-acquiring the target quicker after the shot.

I recently bought an expensive 6-36x56 scope that is mainly for my .22lr rifle (competition use ideally) but will on occasion be used for hunting eastern whitetails, pronghorn antelope, and maybe coues deer. When I do hunt with it, it won't go above 15 power during a shot.

 

[RHoyland4]

Thanks everyone for helping the FNG out!

 

[wind gypsy]

No way I'd pay current defiance prices (depending on sales). I'd look at kelbly nanook, lone peak, impact NBK, pierce shadow, etc for cheaper. Also, does defiance make the rebel or classic to guaranteed headspace specs where you could use a shouldered prefit now? They didn't used to be so you'd be limited to an Anti of your choices.

Also, seems ambitious to hit your budget with that build sheet? Just your components list adds up to more than $3500 for a bare rifle. Are you planning on buying tools to torque a barrel on or have someone that can do it for you?

For performance for the $, i'd look hard at a nanook or pierce Shadow and have a gunsmith contour a steel barrel that meets the weight goal you're trying to reach with a proof.

 

[BailyHNTR]

I am new to Rokslide and am looking to build my first custom bolt gun. I have built multiple AR platforms in the past. I do not have any machining capabilities so am looking to use a prefit barrel.

I am looking to use a Defiance action but cannot decide between the Classic, Renegade or Anti. I am leaning towards the Renegade, but cannot find a weight on it. Does anyone know what the weight is?

The remainder of the build is:

Proof 20" or 22" 7mm PRC
Manners MCS-PH
Hawkins M5 DBM
Timney or Trigger Tech
Zeis V6 5-30x50

I am looking to take some long range shooting classes but also use it to elk, mule deer and aoudad sheep hunt.

Any suggestions or things to watch out for since this is my first build?

I have a similar build and opted for 20" Proof since I'll mainly shoot suppressed. without the suppressor I'm shooting around 2800 fps but thats only with 2 boxes shot so it should increase a bit. Went with Stocky's VG2 carbon stock because the price was a lot better. Defiance Classic because that is the new name for their Anti 2. Trigger Tech special trigger. I dont think there is a need to spend the extra money on trigger tech diamond personally. I went with NF NX8 4-32 MOA in SFP. If its primarily a hunting rifle, I would go SFP. As long as I'm at 16 or 32 power, the reticle marks are MOA. Either way you'll be getting a badass rifle!

 

[ddowning]

Thanks for your input. I had not thought about FFP. I am assuming you are recommending them so I can use the holds at any power vs just at high power?

I am a MOA guy even though I have not played with it at long distances. All my other scopes are MOA. My intent would be to dial for yardage and hold for wind age.

At least at his time I don’t intend to do any competitions, just take a class or 2 and shoot steel at the ranch.

Making wind calls is much simpler in mils. Look up the bc method or mph gun method (same method, 2 names). Once I know that a gun/load is say a "7mph gun", I can make wind calls without ever looking at a ballistic calculator. It is rare to even pull out a Kestral for me at a match unless the wind is <3 mph or >12 mph or the target distance>1000 yards. I haven't written a wind call on a dope card in 5 years.

There are methods to do similar in moa, but they are a bit harder to wrap your head around/more mental gymnastics. If you have not shot long range with a ffp scope the process will all be new. Even if you are a seasoned shooter, (besides the wind method) there is no practical difference between mils and moa in my mind. I have and do use both. I much prefer mils. Having used moa in the past will make no difference at all. The reasons people say that is because they have not learned the basics of long range shooting and are still stuck on zeroing duplex or bdc reticles where they shoot at 100 yards and measure 2" of adjustment needed and convert it to 2 moa for 8 clicks. NONE of that applies to the most up to date methods.

With a modern ffp scope and reticle you will shoot a group at a target. You can use whatever magnification suits your fancy. You will then use the scopes reticle to measure how far off you are from the center of the group to the point of aim. The measurements will be in the same units as the turret clicks, i.e. moa or mils. It will not matter if you are 25 yards, 100 yards, 1000 yards, or 776 yards. You will then dial said measurements into turrets and move group to point of aim. You don't have to "think" or "operate" in anything. As long as the scope and the reticle are calibrated in the same unit of measure, the unit of measure can be squirrel testicles. There is no unit conversion involved in the process.

Working with a wind call that is 6 mph = .1@100 .2@100; .3@300; .4@400; etc and converting for different winds/distances is a lot easier for me than the same gun that is 2moa@200 3moa@300 4moa@400 etc in 18 mph with moa.

 

[RHoyland4]

No way I'd pay current defiance prices (depending on sales). I'd look at kelbly nanook, lone peak, impact NBK, pierce shadow, etc for cheaper. Also, does defiance make the rebel or classic to guaranteed headspace specs where you could use a shouldered prefit now? They didn't used to be so you'd be limited to an Anti of your choices.

Also, seems ambitious to hit your budget with that build sheet? Just your components list adds up to more than $3500 for a bare rifle. Are you planning on buying tools to torque a barrel on or have someone that can do it for you?

For performance for the $, i'd look hard at a nanook or pierce Shadow and have a gunsmith contour a steel barrel that meets the weight goal you're trying to reach with a proof.

No way I'd pay current defiance prices (depending on sales). I'd look at kelbly nanook, lone peak, impact NBK, pierce shadow, etc for cheaper. Also, does defiance make the rebel or classic to guaranteed headspace specs where you could use a shouldered prefit now? They didn't used to be so you'd be limited to an Anti of your choices.

Also, seems ambitious to hit your budget with that build sheet? Just your components list adds up to more than $3500 for a bare rifle. Are you planning on buying tools to torque a barrel on or have someone that can do it for you?

For performance for the $, i'd look hard at a nanook or pierce Shadow and have a gunsmith contour a steel barrel that meets the weight goal you're trying to reach with a proof.

all of those actions you mention are about the same price as the Anti. except the Pierce Shadow, which is $100 cheaper than the Renegade. The Classic is $300 less than the Shadow.

With the Classic I should be under the $3,500 without the scope. The Anti would put me about $4K.

I have everything I need to assemble the rifle accept an action wrench. For this one I want to go carbon fiber on the barrel. Part of the reason for doing this is the fun of it. I have built multiple AR's for myself and others and would like to do bolt actions now.

 

[RHoyland4]

I have a similar build and opted for 20" Proof since I'll mainly shoot suppressed. without the suppressor I'm shooting around 2800 fps but thats only with 2 boxes shot so it should increase a bit. Went with Stocky's VG2 carbon stock because the price was a lot better. Defiance Classic because that is the new name for their Anti 2. Trigger Tech special trigger. I dont think there is a need to spend the extra money on trigger tech diamond personally. I went with NF NX8 4-32 MOA in SFP. If its primarily a hunting rifle, I would go SFP. As long as I'm at 16 or 32 power, the reticle marks are MOA. Either way you'll be getting a badass rifle!

It looks great! How is the accuracy out of the 20" barrel? I am debating 20 or 22 as most gun manufacturers are not building 20", so there must be some reason.

 

[BailyHNTR]

It looks great! How is the accuracy out of the 20" barrel? I am debating 20 or 22 as most gun manufacturers are not building 20", so there must be some reason.

It’s more the velocity change with the 20”. Accuracy is great. Was shooting steel targets at 1400 yards yesterday and hitting better than my buddies with 26 and 27” barrels I’m averaging 2775-2800 fps after shooting 80 rounds through it with the 175g ELD-X

I think we’ll see more 20” barrels being commonplace for hunters. Some guys are even using 18” now with their suppressors.


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