First and Last Rifle - New Hunter

[Novashooter]

The only problem with that, is the ergonomics of the M1A are dogshit. Like shouldering a fence post.

To each his own. I prefer the M1A to an AR10 because of ergonomics. Both have different stocks available. I went with a classic M14 big red birch.

Should have killed a decent buck this morning but played it too safe. He's still out here though so I'm just going to sit and see if he comes back through the same area.

 

[Jon_G]

To each his own. I prefer the M1A to an AR10 because of ergonomics. Both have different stocks available. I went with a classic M14 big red birch.

Should have killed a decent buck this morning but played it too safe. He's still out here though so I'm just going to sit and see if he comes back through the same area.

Good luck!!!

 

[Novashooter]

Thanks. And to clarify, I don't think the M1A is the ultimate hunting rifle. I just like them.

 

[Jon_G]

Thanks. And to clarify, I don't think the M1A is the ultimate hunting rifle. I just like them.

No, since you're posting on here you claim to represent every single member on rokslide. Therefore you must mean that the M1A is the ultimate hunting rifle don't Big brother watches your every move! Lol

 

[ElPollo]

You couldn't have said things better man. This dude swears he's a professional or something. That's why I told him that since he knows so damn much that he must have the absolute best setup on the planet lol. Where I'm from when someone is a shit talker, offers their opinion just to shit on someone, or is nosy as all hell we say that they are everywhere but in church lol. I appreciate your comment though

RS is a sharp guy who knows a lot and has added a lot to this forum. Anybody can have a ‘too much coffee to be patient day’. All this stuff is about experience and opinion. The information he posted is good and I am not itrying to slight your choices. If they work for you, great. Here is my experience.

My personal take on R700 type actions is that they are about the last thing I would recommend to a person who is new to guns. They are okay if you only load them when you are ready to fire, but when the chips are down and the conditions are bad they may not fire or they might slam fire when you close the action. None of that is what I would consider a safe firearm. I’m sure that chaps a lot of people’s posteriors because they are the most popular action in the US. I have a buddy who loves them, despite having an ND that nearly killed his father. I don’t understand that but still respect him. I have not owned an R700 action in over 30 years and won’t.

I’m also not a chassis guy, but that’s more of a personal choice thing. They are not my choice to carry in either cold or hot weather because it’s uncomfortable even with gloves. While I do like vertical grips that result in good alignment for my trigger finger, I find the AR-type grip way down below the bore axis to be finicky for my shooting. Your mileage may vary because we are all built differently.

I also big game hunt, but my pertinent experience with Leupolds comes from carrying a rifle in my truck for coyotes during quail season. I bird hunt in the desert every weekend from Nov-Feb every year. I run through a lot of rough country from washboards, to dunes, to crossing washouts and arroyos. I am not a fan of having my zero wander by half a coyote at 100 yards. This did not happen from dropping or mistreating my guns. I struggled with it for a long time, and after reading about scope reliability on this forum, I tested it. It’s just the vibration from riding in the truck and it’ll push my zero by 3-5” @100. It has happed to me multiple times with Leupolds and every other scope that I’ve used except my SWFAs. They are now all I use, and I have a 3-9, a 6x, and a 3-15. The latter is my least favorite of the trio, but they all are scopes you can count on. I have considered Nightforce, but like the SWFA reticles way more and the lower cost. So I stick with them even if they are ugly and have giant turrets.

All that is my experience and opinion.

 

[Jon_G]

RS is a sharp guy who knows a lot and has added a lot to this forum. Anybody can have a ‘too much coffee to be patient day’. All this stuff is about experience and opinion. The information he posted is good and I am not itrying to slight your choices. If they work for you, great. Here is my experience.

My personal take on R700 type actions is that they are about the last thing I would recommend to a person who is new to guns. They are okay if you only load them when you are ready to fire, but when the chips are down and the conditions are bad they may not fire or they might slam fire when you close the action. None of that is what I would consider a safe firearm. I’m sure that chaps a lot of people’s posteriors because they are the most popular action in the US. I have a buddy who loves them, despite having an ND that nearly killed his father. I don’t understand that but still respect him. I have not owned an R700 action in over 30 years and won’t.

I’m also not a chassis guy, but that’s more of a personal choice thing. They are not my choice to carry in either cold or hot weather because it’s uncomfortable even with gloves. While I do like vertical grips that result in good alignment for my trigger finger, I find the AR-type grip way down below the bore axis to be finicky for my shooting. Your mileage may vary because we are all built differently.

I also big game hunt, but my pertinent experience with Leupolds comes from carrying a rifle in my truck for coyotes during quail season. I bird hunt in the desert every weekend from Nov-Feb every year. I run through a lot of rough country from washboards, to dunes, to crossing washouts and arroyos. I am not a fan of having my zero wander by half a coyote at 100 yards. This did not happen from dropping or mistreating my guns. I struggled with it for a long time, and after reading about scope reliability on this forum, I tested it. It’s just the vibration from riding in the truck and it’ll push my zero by 3-5” @100. It has happed to me multiple times with Leupolds and every other scope that I’ve used except my SWFAs. They are now all I use, and I have a 3-9, a 6x, and a 3-15. The latter is my least favorite of the trio, but they all are scopes you can count on. I have considered Nightforce, but like the SWFA reticles way more and the lower cost. So I stick with them even if they are ugly and have giant turrets.

All that is my experience and opinion.

Thanks for the information. If you're going to educate someone that is how you do it. My leupold has seen very, very little use and I know guys that will pay me top dollar for it even if I explain to them why I'm selling lol. A few of the guys I met, through the guy that is teaching me how to be a good hunter, won't use anything but leupold. But again to each their own. Appreciate the great information.

 

[EastHumboldt]

I’ve had two slam fires with my old Remington 700 (1963). One of them was after I tried to adjust the trigger, and the other, after getting the trigger adjusted by a well reputed gunsmith. Fortunately, I’m extremely attentive about muzzle direction. I replaced the trigger with a Timney . Still not sure if this makes it safe. I have a couple newer Tikkas, and that’s what I hunt with. The Remington stays in the safe for sentimental reasons.

 

[Jon_G]

I’ve had two slam fires with my old Remington 700 (1963). One of them was after I tried to adjust the trigger, and the other, after getting the trigger adjusted by a well reputed gunsmith. Fortunately, I’m extremely attentive about muzzle direction. I replaced the trigger with a Timney . Still not sure if this makes it safe. I have a couple newer Tikkas, and that’s what I hunt with. The Remington stays in the safe for sentimental reasons.

I wonder if Bergara rifles have the same issue just because they are 700 clones. I think I'll make a separate thread about it. Thank you!

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I’ve had two slam fires with my old Remington 700 (1963). One of them was after I tried to adjust the trigger, and the other, after getting the trigger adjusted by a well reputed gunsmith. Fortunately, I’m extremely attentive about muzzle direction. I replaced the trigger with a Timney . Still not sure if this makes it safe. I have a couple newer Tikkas, and that’s what I hunt with. The Remington stays in the safe for sentimental reasons.

It’s not the guns fault that two people who didn’t know what they were doing adjusted the trigger and made it unsafe. I’ve fired well over 100K rounds through 700’s and 700 clones with factory and aftermarket triggers over the last 20 years and have never once had one go off uncommanded without the pull of the trigger.

The only trigger failures I’ve experienced have been dead triggers from debris and all but one was a Jewel.

Tikka made their triggers idiot proof by not incorporating sear engagement adjustment. If it was adjustable you could make one of those unsafe too.

Adjust it properly and you won’t have an issue.

 

[ElPollo]

I’ve had two slam fires with my old Remington 700 (1963). One of them was after I tried to adjust the trigger, and the other, after getting the trigger adjusted by a well reputed gunsmith. Fortunately, I’m extremely attentive about muzzle direction. I replaced the trigger with a Timney . Still not sure if this makes it safe. I have a couple newer Tikkas, and that’s what I hunt with. The Remington stays in the safe for sentimental reasons.

Replacing with a Timney, TriggerTech, Diamond, or any other production trigger does not fix the issues with the R700. I don’t have experience with it, but have read here that the Gisele trigger addressed the drop-safe issue, but don’t believe it addressed the slam fire and trigger freeze-up issues. That trigger is now unfortunately out of production. I think the only truly safe R700 is an empty one.

Do I think that means no one should buy or own one? No. I think you can use them safely if you carry them unloaded. But they are the last thing I would recommend to a new shooter. And there are other options I personally prefer.

 

[Antares]

a .308 will be more versatile for a various range of animals than a 6.5CM will be.

How do you figure? Just curious.

My leupold has seen very, very little use

This is probably why it still works (or you think it still works). I’m not trying to be a jerk here. I wasted years fooling around with Leupolds (including the VX5) before I got smarter.

Ever gone to check zero and found that it was 1”+ off? That’s not supposed to happen.

Ever found that the scope needs substantially more adjustment than you measure to get on target (e.g., you measure that you need 12 clicks up to zero, but it takes 15 to get you there)? That’s not supposed to happen.

All my Leupolds did the above. I thought it was normal. Turns out it’s just normal for scopes that don’t work right.

 

[Jon_G]

How do you figure? Just curious.


This is probably why it still works (or you think it still works). I’m not trying to be a jerk here. I wasted years fooling around with Leupolds (including the VX5) before I got smarter.

Ever gone to check zero and found that it was 1”+ off? That’s not supposed to happen.

Ever found that the scope needs substantially more adjustment than you measure to get on target (e.g., you measure that you need 12 clicks up to zero, but it takes 15 to get you there)? That’s not supposed to happen.

All my Leupolds did the above. I thought it was normal. Turns out it’s just normal for scopes that don’t work right.

You'd think with what they cost that you would have this problem! Thanks for the information. What do you recommend then? I guess it's time I start looking to sell!

 

[Antares]

You'd think with what they cost that you would have this problem! Thanks for the information. What do you recommend then? I guess it's time I start looking to sell!

I currently have three Nightforce NXSs, three SWFA fixed powers, and one remaining Leupold. People on here also seem to like the Trijicons, but I’ve never had one. The NXS 2.5-10x42 is my current favorite; I have two. It’s expensive but it works. My remaining Leupold is an old 2.5-8x36 that lives on my Kimber. I mostly just keep it because it’s 11oz, it doesn’t dial, and it holds zero well enough for shooting inside 250-300 yards.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Replacing with a Timney, TriggerTech, Diamond, or any other production trigger does not fix the issues with the R700. I don’t have experience with it, but have read here that the Gisele trigger addressed the drop-safe issue, but don’t believe it addressed the slam fire and trigger freeze-up issues. That trigger is now unfortunately out of production. I think the only truly safe R700 is an empty one.

Do I think that means no one should buy or own one? No. I think you can use them safely if you carry them unloaded. But they are the last thing I would recommend to a new shooter. And there are other options I personally prefer.

The Geissele has so many issues it’s not even funny, hence why they discontinued it.

USMC had to issue a bulletin because of safety issues with them in the MK13’s. Shooters would start taking up the first stage, release and put the gun on safe and they would fire.

Lots of people having them lock up the bolt after firing across numerous aftermarket actions that have no issues with other 700 triggers.

It’s funny that you suggest that as a safe or reliable trigger but not the others. This is a weird place.

 

[hunterjmj]

I would say functionally compromised in all respects. I'm glad you like your stuff, but promoting it as consensus recommendations from rokslide writ large is just false. That's where most of us started, not where we end up.

I re-read his post and no where did he say his setup is the rockslide consensus. Who cares what other people shoot. I'm sure most people will take in all the info available here and elsewhere to make a decision based on all the info they've absorbed. I bet you know everything about everything. I bet you'd hate my rifles/scope setups.

 

[ElPollo]

The Geissele has so many issues it’s not even funny, hence why they discontinued it.

USMC had to issue a bulletin because of safety issues with them in the MK13’s. Shooters would start taking up the first stage, release and put the gun on safe and they would fire.

Lots of people having them lock up the bolt after firing across numerous aftermarket actions that have no issues with other 700 triggers.

It’s funny that you suggest that as a safe or reliable trigger but not the others. This is a weird place.

Reading comprehension is a hard thing. The point of the post was that changing the trigger does not fix the safety issues with R700 actions and that they are not the best choice for new shooters. It sounds like you agree with that. Am I wrong? Note that I said I had no experience with the Gisele trigger and referred to what was stated elsewhere on Rokslide. That it might fix one of the issues but probably not all.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Reading comprehension is a hard thing. The point of the post was that changing the trigger does not fix the safety issues with R700 actions and that they are not the best choice for new shooters. It sounds like you agree with that. Am I wrong? Note that I said I had no experience with the Gisele trigger and referred to what was stated elsewhere on Rokslide. That it might fix one of the issues but probably not all.

That’s the problem all around, you’re parroting what is said on rokslide. This is the only place on the internet that thinks R700 triggers in general are unreliable which is absolutely false.

The 700 trigger safety issues are 100% caused by idiots adjusting them, nothing more nothing less. So yes, you are wrong.

The 700 has decades of military service where this was never an issue because nobody was touching them. They only became an issue when every billy bob decided to do a trigger job and ****** up the sear engagement.

 

[ElPollo]

That’s the problem all around, you’re parroting what is said on rokslide. This is the only place on the internet that thinks R700 triggers in general are unreliable which is absolutely false.

The 700 trigger safety issues are 100% caused by idiots adjusting them, nothing more nothing less. So yes, you are wrong.

The 700 has decades of military service where this was never an issue because nobody was touching them. They only became an issue when every billy bob decided to do a trigger job and ****** up the sear engagement.

You act as if I’m saying that R700 should be banned. I clearly did not say that. I stated that an R700 would not be the first gun I would recommend for a new shooter. I stand by that and wish you a good day.

 

[Novashooter]

Good luck!!!

I think you helped. Got the good buck. Taking a break now. On the last leg of the hike back to the truck. M1A works.

 

[hunterjmj]

Who cares what they think? Its a forum, not a cult. The idea that there is some unified consensus is absurd. I'm sitting out in the middle of nowhere right now hunting antelope with my aperture sight Springfield M1A. I can only imagine the problems people on this board would find with my setup.

I'd like to take my Dads .30-30 antelope hunting next year. Been shooting a bunch lately, need more practice behind the iron sights, but it'll do the job for sure. I love shooting that lever gun and it'd be really awesome to get an antelope with it. That would be great to see an antelope taken with any non-modern bolt gun. Hoping you get an antelope with your M1A.