Federal New Cartridge

[BBob]

It is incorrect to believe that Velocity ES and SD directly correlates with vertical or group size at distance.

Freaking absolutely!

 

[BBob]

When I punch a large SD into a WEZ calculator the hit probability goes to crap at distance. If large velocity variations are not indicative of some amount of vertical stringing...
I mean how would that be? If you're somehow perfectly zero'd at X distance at X velocity, and then the velocity drops 50fps, physics would require that shot to hit somewhere lower than the previous that was at the X velocity.

Your thinking is too narrow. You are only taking a few variables and plugging them into a calculator, not the whole system as it works in the world. Some things still cannot be totally explained by rigid math. Just because you think it's fully logical doesn't mean it is, it might mean you're missing something.

Peruse this dilemma by researching how many long range BR folks these days get better winning groups with a larger ES/SD than smaller. It is really common. Positive compensation has been suggested as a reason. It hasn't been proven but it's a theory. The single digit ES holy grail isn't what it was cracked up to be.

 

[Dos XX]

I've never shot a load with an es over 20 in competition, but I have chosen a load with an es of 16 or 17 over one with an es of 9 because it shot smaller at 1000 yds. I also won some medals with it.

I'm not saying one with es over 20 can't do it. I'm just saying I haven't personally seen one in my experiences. If I do, I will shoot it, though.

 

[BBob]

One example from a well known 1K shooter/gun builder:

"My point is guys will get on a ballistics calculator and say you need x es to shoot x vertical based on bullet drop. They ignore barrel harmonics. Theres 12 shots in 3.6 inches of vertical at 1k with 36 fps of es. 9 shots in 2 inches with 23. They will tell you that's not possible. It's very common to see if you shoot groups a lot. I try to help guys improve their accuracy and so many are focused on single digit es when they are shooting .5 moa or bigger. I dont want to hear about single digit es unless your shooting under an inch at 1k or your shooting past a mile."

Keeping it simple with reloading

More than one way to skin a cat. As long as your rounds are consistent you're doing it right IMHO. Of course what do I know. I use Lemon pledge!! LOL.

www.longrangehunting.com

 

[z987k]

Your thinking is too narrow. You are only taking a few variables and plugging them into a calculator, not the whole system as it works in the world. Some things still cannot be totally explained by rigid math. Just because you think it's fully logical doesn't mean it is, it might mean you're missing something.

Peruse this dilemma by researching how many long range BR folks these days get better winning groups with a larger ES/SD than smaller. It is really common. Positive compensation has been suggested as a reason. It hasn't been proven but it's a theory. The single digit ES holy grail isn't what it was cracked up to be.

The only way the same rifle and bullet are not shooting lower with something like 50fps less is if it's being compensated for. Physics is physics. Something slower with the same drag profile has to be lower. Something faster has to be higher.
Random dispersion due to barrel harmonics and the shooter(the largest variable) can eat into that, but if we assume a hard mounted rifle that cannot change it's point of aim, there's no way you're not going to see it drop.
I would expect the same result if I dropped the powder charge and got lower velocity. Let's take this thought experiment to it's extreme. My ES is 400fps. First shot is 2800fps. Then next is 2400fps. Then next is 2600. That's not going to have vertical stringing?

I generally don't chase SD, but I also don't hunt at ranges where larger SD's would mean I miss.