Equipment versus practice posts and Rifle practice/shooting

[Marbles]

Most definitely... I said it mostly tongue in cheek, although I was half hoping for some tips on body positioning with zero equipment. Where I live we have thousands of km of logging rd system that I can hunt off of. Many places I hunt are literally a 5-20 min walk off the rd, where I only bring in my binos and rifle. I've been trying to work on classic marksmanship but I have a herniated disc in my lower back and I find sitting and Kneeling hard positions to get into and be steady. My offhand sucks too.. but I'm working on it.

For sitting with no support, I have to fold myself in odd ways to get stable (bend really far forward, legs almost straight, heals crossed). It is not a position for anyone with back or hip issues, that is for sure.

For the 5-20 minute walks, a set of trekking poles and a day pack might be enough to add significant stability without much weight. You could stuff a sleeping bag in the day pack to give it some light weight fill.

One of the Form Friday episodes of the Shoot2Hunt podcast covers things like using vegetation and such for support. The most helpful concept was that supports stabilize the shooter and the shooter stabilizes the rifle. It is a subtle change, but I can already tell that the change in conceptualization has made an improvement because I'm no longer focusing on how I stabilize the rifle, but on how I can stabilize my own body. Of course that is what you are doing by putting the pack under your knees, so you probably already have a better handle on this than I do.

 

[Moose83]

For sitting with no support, I have to fold myself in odd ways to get stable (bend really far forward, legs almost straight, heals crossed). It is not a position for anyone with back or hip issues, that is for sure.

For the 5-20 minute walks, a set of trekking poles and a day pack might be enough to add significant stability without much weight. You could stuff a sleeping bag in the day pack to give it some light weight fill.

One of the Form Friday episodes of the Shoot2Hunt podcast covers things like using vegetation and such for support. The most helpful concept was that supports stabilize the shooter and the shooter stabilizes the rifle. It is a subtle change, but I can already tell that the change in conceptualization has made an improvement because I'm no longer focusing on how I stabilize the rifle, but on how I can stabilize my own body. Of course that is what you are doing by putting the pack under your knees, so you probably already have a better handle on this than I do.

The Form Friday's have definitely been a big help in changing how I think about support. They are also the impetus for a focus on classic marksmanship. As for the backpack thing that has mostly been that I always felt quite silly putting on a fully loaded k3 just for a 5 min walk, not to mention the k3 is quite noisy in thick bush. However, my wife and kids got me a nice little Harkila wool day pack that feels less silly and is nice shoot off. It's a little short and not quite stiff enough for seated supported tho.... tradeoffs for everything I guess... lol.

 

[Castle Rock]

Sitting with your back against a tree or rock really steadies things up

 

[Marbles]

The Form Friday's have definitely been a big help in changing how I think about support. They are also the impetus for a focus on classic marksmanship. As for the backpack thing that has mostly been that I always felt quite silly putting on a fully loaded k3 just for a 5 min walk, not to mention the k3 is quite noisy in thick bush. However, my wife and kids got me a nice little Harkila wool day pack that feels less silly and is nice shoot off. It's a little short and not quite stiff enough for seated supported tho.... tradeoffs for everything I guess... lol.

What if you put the pack between your thighs and torso?

 

[Moose83]

What if you put the pack between your thighs and torso?

I'll try that one next time out.

 

[Jon Boy]

I can’t for the life of me, get remotely close to the same stability as a bipod, using sticks and pack, pack prone etc and the speed isn’t even close. Some one teach me there ways. I’ve used a Harris for 10 years and can deploy that sucker and use my hand or binos as a rear rest and be far more stable and ready to shoot 10x quicker than the above mentioned positions. Trying sticks and pack for steep ground and cross canyon shots and still struggling. That’s the one shot that’s cost me critters in the past not being able to get prone.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I hunt a lot of steep canyon country, and my go to position is sitting with my pack upright in between my legs. The rifle is rested over the top of the yoke.

Give it a try. So many times I’d love to prone out but the downhill angle prevents it. I’m comfortable out to 400ish in this position.

 

[Jon Boy]

I hunt a lot of steep canyon country, and my go to position is sitting with my pack upright in between my legs. The rifle is rested over the top of the yoke.

Give it a try. So many times I’d love to prone out but the downhill angle prevents it. I’m comfortable out to 400ish in this position.

Thanks! I’ll try that on my next trip to the range. I thought about getting a pole with a fork on it like argali’s for the rear rest. It’s a complete disaster watching me try and get the shooting sticks together with the straps

 

[Weldor]

Thanks! I’ll try that on my next trip to the range. I thought about getting a pole with a fork on it like argali’s for the rear rest. It’s a complete disaster watching me try and get the shooting sticks together with the straps

Same here, I have a few physical limitations (broken back twice, bad surgery same.) Can't do prone, I use a trigger stick and some weird positions, but they work for me. I do shoot offhand at 100 and 200, that will wake you up. Sitting on stumps, logs, rocks with a pad and my pack under my elbow does wonders.

 

[pbroski]

I've been doing quite a bit of field position shooting practice. I think it's paying off. I shot these lately, all at 100 yards. First is 10 rounds with Kimber 6.5cm sitting supported with sticks and pack. Second is 6 rounds with same rifle sitting supported with stick and pack. Third is 19 rounds with Howa .223 sitting unsupported.

 

[ddowning]

Dryfire will tell you a lot about building positions and breaking triggers. It doesn't matter the position, gun set-up, etc. It does nothing for recoil control, and you have to be careful to follow through or you can develop the bad habits of going to the bolt to soon, etc.

I made massive improvements in one winter building positions and dryfiring every day. Obviously, if you have the time and ammo then go shoot, but a lot of people under estimate what can be built with dryfire. It has the benefits of cost and time on its side as well.

 

[Anschutz]

I've been doing quite a bit of field position shooting practice. I think it's paying off. I shot these lately, all at 100 yards. First is 10 rounds with Kimber 6.5cm sitting supported with sticks and pack. Second is 6 rounds with same rifle sitting supported with stick and pack. Third is 19 rounds with Howa .223 sitting unsupported.

Good shooting. The sitting unsupported group looks like a few shots (the high left ones) broke on the top of your pulse. For a righty, the movement due to pulse in sitting will generally be diagonally down from left to right. I've got some cleaning up to do in that area myself.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

 

[Bluumoon]

Gonna leave this here...

Rokslide style shooting match/challenge 7/20/24

One of the recent threads and a local connection inspired @justinspicher and myself to put together a RS style match. Short notice, but wanted to extend the invite. "Mountain Rifle Challenge" I think would embody what we are shooting for. Event will be on 7/20 in Dolores, CO. The general area...

rokslide.com

 

[Jason Snyder]

I wasn’t able to get to the range last week. I got hit with a pretty good bout of food poisoning and missed doing the cold bore challenge.

I was able to shoot today before it really heated up. I checked a ten round zero then shot ten rounds, sitting unsupported. This isn’t a super comfortable position for me, I think I could use a little more LOP on the Kimber to make the position more comfortable. Make the best of it and roll though. I think it’s easy to spend way too much mental energy on comfort.

I shot this group in rounds of 3, getting up to reload the magazine and let the rifle cool a bit. So, building a platform three different times, then shooting three rounds as fast as I could cycle the bolt and get back on target.

Disregard the .30 holes.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I accidentally posted this in another thread and meant to post it here...

I never go to "ranges" but while here in Wyoming for the next 2-3 weeks I went to a local, very quiet and not hardly used gun range.

I swapped my Tikka .223 into a Rokstock and wanted to practice some field position shooting and also check zero on the gun after the stock swap. I've swapped many stocks, and have sometimes seen little to no POI shift to my 100 yard zero. I've also swapped stocks and have sometimes seen minor to moderate POI shifts to my 100 yard zero. I don't claim to be any kind of expert on why or how, I just shoot, observe, and correct when needed.

Lately, with loctiting and torqueing actions screws on my Tikkas and Sakos to 65" lbs I have not seen very much in the way of POI shifts to zero when swapping. This morning, I did see a shift that needed correcting.

I setup on the concrete table and bench, with front and rear bags eliminating as many errors as possible. This Tikka .223 with factory 20" 8 twist barrel and factory Black Hills 77 TMK ammo is a little hammer of a gun. My first shot aimed at the bottom left 1" square showed a POI shift to the right (see orange circled shot). Using @Formidilosus sight in method, I used the Maven RS1.2 MIL reticle as a ruler and made the correction to the horizontal turret. The next shot is the bullet hole you can see in the center of the 1" red square, bottom left target.

I proceeded to then get setup OFF the bench and shot in 3 different shooting positions from the concrete floor. My plan was to shoot 4 full magazines (16 shots) in each position for 48 shots. I did not take time in between shots and spotted all impacts... Only time taken was re-loading a new magazine and rebuilding the shooting position (less than 6 seconds timed average); and then obviously time taken to setup the next complete shooting position (less than 18 seconds timed).

I also setup my Garmin to track muzzle velocity which was last checked in 80 degree weather in Arizona at 1,500 feet of elevation. It was 55 degrees and 4,000 feet of elevation at the range this morning. My MV used when creating my laminated dope cards prior to showing up in Wyoming was set at 2820 for this rifle and ammo. See the photo below for the average of 48 shots this morning. Worrying about adjusting your muzzle velocity and 100 yard "zero" for things like elevation, temperature, barrel temperature, etc. is not something to fuss over.

All shots were at 100 yards. Tikka .223, Rokstok, Maven RS1.2 Scope, UM Tikka Rings, High Desert Bottom Metal, factory trigger, factory 20" barrel.

Position 1: Bottom Left Target

I shot in the prone position with my pack supporting the front of the rifle. For the rear of the rifle I used my bino harness as a rear rest. This is an ideal and often times common hunting shot for me depending on the hunt and terrain.

Position 2: Top Left Target

I shot seated with a long Spartan bipod, with my backpack and bino harness as a rear support. I bear hug the pack and wrap my quads around it. Off hand goes on top of the the bino harness which is sitting on the pack, supporting the rear of the stock. This can be done from the ground like I did this morning or from a glassing stool/chair. This position is probably the most common used for me currently in Arizona for big game hunting.

Position 3: Bottom Right Target

I shot seated with a long Spartan bipod, with nothing as a rear rest. I use my quads, calves, and off hand arm/hand to support the rear of the gun. Probably the most common general hunting shot I take inside of 300ish yards. Used mainly on coyotes and rabbits, but big game as well when rushed to get a kill.

The 100 Yard Target:





The Chronograph Results:

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Sitting with your back against a tree or rock really steadies things up

Very underrated comment right here. I've used my Jeep or ATV tires to lean back against to kill a pile of varmints over the years.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I wasn’t able to get to the range last week. I got hit with a pretty good bout of food poisoning and missed doing the cold bore challenge.

I was able to shoot today before it really heated up. I checked a ten round zero then shot ten rounds, sitting unsupported. This isn’t a super comfortable position for me, I think I could use a little more LOP on the Kimber to make the position more comfortable. Make the best of it and roll though. I think it’s easy to spend way too much mental energy on comfort.

I shot this group in rounds of 3, getting up to reload the magazine and let the rifle cool a bit. So, building a platform three different times, then shooting three rounds as fast as I could cycle the bolt and get back on target.

Disregard the .30 holes.

View attachment 735063

View attachment 735047

That's solid shooting for seated with no support! How often do you practice these shots?

 

[Jason Snyder]

That's solid shooting for seated with no support! How often do you practice these shots?

Thank you. Not very often. I don’t shoot nearly as much as I should.

I do get a decent amount of time with a pistol to work on trigger press. The one thing I’ve tried to get really good at is getting into position and on target fast.

A number of critters I’ve killed would not have died if there was very much fiddle farting around getting on target.

 

[ddowning]

Thank you. Not very often. I don’t shoot nearly as much as I should.

I do get a decent amount of time with a pistol to work on trigger press. The one thing I’ve tried to get really good at is getting into position and on target fast.

A number of critters I’ve killed would not have died if there was very much fiddle farting around getting on target.

Even shooting prs with sub 1# triggers, the problem is almost always trigger press, or follow through. If you can press a trigger, you can shoot.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Even shooting prs with sub 1# triggers, the problem is almost always trigger press, or follow through. If you can press a trigger, you can shoot.

Very much agree, with the caveat that it is also important to be able to build stable positions really fast and know your wind. I’m pretty good at the first, not so good at the second.