Equipment versus practice posts and Rifle practice/shooting

[Macintosh]

Time, yes, although for me its usually at very close range in that case, often less than 50 yards. The other place I run into it is when you have only a narrow window through trees or brush, and moving to a rest obscures the animal—that’s actually pretty common for me, although its also rarely even 100 yards. A tripod could work here if it was practical—its usually not.

 

[HighUintas]

First attempt.
11/20 if you’re being generous.
10/20 if you don’t count the one on the edge with the question mark. What is the consensus? Does breaking the outer edge of the line count?
View attachment 713087

I realized I just needed reps. I wanted to dry fire practice at home. So I went to this site and calculated that at 11 feet 1 moa is about 1 mm.

View attachment 713100

I then used my calipers and a pen to make the appropriate sized circles on a sticky note.

View attachment 713101

I put the sticky note on a whiteboard, and have been going through the full set of strings (dry fire) at 11 feet away.

View attachment 713102


I’ve run the dry fire drill multiple times in my basement wearing my full hunting setup. The reticle is a bit blurry this close, but it’s precise enough to tell if I’m on target when the trigger breaks and the dry fire happens. I’m getting more and more comfortable and consistent. I have encountered a few malfunctions in my system that I now know how to prevent and handle in the event that they occur in the field. Planning on doing this drill daily.

Will report the results of my next live fire drill next week sometime.

Exactly what I was planning on doing for practice to get better.


In addition to wearing ally gear just like I would hunting, I had about 55 lbs in my pack because I'm usually backpack hunting when rifle hunting, although that's usually 45lbs.

It's much harder lugging the heavy pack in a good position quickly with one hand while holding my rifle

 

[Jason Snyder]

My offhand shots are not usually time dictated but shot window dictated.

 

[Castle Rock]

I’m a match shooter with a very heavy rifle so I hate standing off hand. We’ve done it in a few matches and it sucks. Can’t hit a full size IPSC at 120yds sucks. But, for the off hand hunting shots, I would maybe try to practice deploying a tripod quickly over trying to achieve pie plate off hand accuracy. Tripod with a table and small sand bag already attached and shrunk to kneeling height. Going from all gear stowed to making a shot on a deer size target at sub 200yds (offhand limit I hope ) should be doable and stable in under 20 seconds. 30 seconds if you’re staying very quiet during setup. Could be wrong. Just a thought.

If you are not strong enough to hold your rifle up, shoot using the teapot stance
These girls do pretty well that way

 

[young7.3]

Marking for later


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rippey715]

If you are not strong enough to hold your rifle up, shoot using the teapot stance
These girls do pretty well that wayView attachment 713773

hahahaha, I will be the first to say I am not strong enough to shoot my rifle off hand in any reasonable manner.

 

[Macintosh]

I think we've established that offhand
shooting exists and is worth practicing, and that I need practice at it. I already dry fire. Anyone have specific drills or a way to train offhand that doesnt ingrain bad habits?

 

[Nevwild]

I think we've established that offhand
shooting exists and is worth practicing, and that I need practice at it. I already dry fire. Anyone have specific drills or a way to train offhand that doesnt ingrain bad habits?

In an earlier post in this thread by @TaperPin a method for dry fire offhand practice was described. I’ve found it useful.

 

[Marbles]

I think we've established that offhand
shooting exists and is worth practicing, and that I need practice at it. I already dry fire. Anyone have specific drills or a way to train offhand that doesnt ingrain bad habits?

I don't, but will share (though these may just be my own bad habits). If I have something wrong, or flat stupid, hopefully someone will correct it so I can get better.

Shoot 2-4 shots, then set the rifle down. Fatigue comes into play quickly for me and wobble grows.

Elbow rotated to point along the horizontal plain. 3 fingers wrap under the stock, the index finger points down the side of the stock (pointing at something is reflexive and natural, does not eliminate the need to aim, but speeds up target acquisition for me-I think, I've been doing it that way since before I had a shot timer and have not tried comparing the two).

Don't grip the rifle too tight, you cannot use strength to hold it still. Well, sort of, the stronger one is, the easier it will be, but consciously trying to use strength to hold it still in the moment just makes things worse.

I personally try not to use the firing hand for support, the forward hand and shoulder control the rifle, the firing hand is just there to work the controls.

I personally do not square up to the target, I would need a much shorter LOP for that to be comfortable and it would sacrifice every other position. For off hand shooting, my understanding is that squaring up is a function of modern body armor with the goal of keeping as much of the trauma plate as possible between your vitals and a target that is shooting back (I'm open to correction on that if someone knows better).

 

[Macintosh]

In an earlier post in this thread by @TaperPin a method for dry fire offhand practice was described. I’ve found it useful.

Thanks, I missed that, will try it a bit.

I don't, but will share (though these may just be my own bad habits). If I have something wrong, or flat stupid, hopefully someone will correct it so I can get better.

Shoot 2-4 shots, then set the rifle down. Fatigue comes into play quickly for me and wobble grows.

Elbow rotated to point along the horizontal plain. 3 fingers wrap under the stock, the index finger points down the side of the stock (pointing at something is reflexive and natural, does not eliminate the need to aim, but speeds up target acquisition for me-I think, I've been doing it that way since before I had a shot timer and have not tried comparing the two).

Don't grip the rifle too tight, you cannot use strength to hold it still. Well, sort of, the stronger one is, the easier it will be, but consciously trying to use strength to hold it still in the moment just makes things worse.

I personally try not to use the firing hand for support, the forward hand and shoulder control the rifle, the firing hand is just there to work the controls.

I personally do not square up to the target, I would need a much shorter LOP for that to be comfortable and it would sacrifice every other position. For off hand shooting, my understanding is that squaring up is a function of modern body armor with the goal of keeping as much of the trauma plate as possible between your vitals and a target that is shooting back (I'm open to correction on that if someone knows better).

Thanks as well.

Keep it coming anyone with ideas and knowhow.

 

[Bluumoon]

Shot again today w suppressed 6.5 CM.
13/20
Surprised at how much the 6.5 moved w shots compared to .223. Really amplified weakness in positions.

 

[Marbles]

Shot again today w suppressed 6.5 CM.
13/20
Surprised at how much the 6.5 moved w shots compared to .223. Really amplified weakness in positions. View attachment 714387

I've not had the courage to try it with my 308, and the 308 will soon be replaced by a 243 for that reason.

 

[Macintosh]

A Marksman's Guide to the Standing Position - The Everyday Marksman

The standing position is simultaneously the most common and least useful of the standard rifle positions. The thing is, if you need it, you need it now!

www.everydaymarksman.co

 

[T_Widdy]

Shot again today w suppressed 6.5 CM.
13/20
Surprised at how much the 6.5 moved w shots compared to .223. Really amplified weakness in positions. View attachment 714387

Nice job! Put that in the rokstok and see if your score gets better?

 

[huntnful]

Shot the drill again this evening, but with my 22 creedmoor. I shot it again with my bipod on. But this time, I left everything collapsed as if I was walking with my rifle.

It took me 28 seconds to shoot the timed seated supported portion of the drill, and 25 seconds to shoot the timed prone portion of the drill.

But I was able to do the 4 shots in under a minute for the last phase this time though. Because instead of opening up my bipod feet for the prone portion, I just shot it with the same positioning as seated, just collapsed the legs and held myself a little higher up in the prone position.



The red dot up top a 5 shot zero check I shot after I did the drill.


Then I went to 744 yards and shot this 5 shot group prone. So my groups are about 1/2 the size at 700 yards prone, as they are at 100 yards standing or kneeling unsupported .

 

[Nevwild]

First attempt.
11/20 if you’re being generous.
10/20 if you don’t count the one on the edge with the question mark. What is the consensus? Does breaking the outer edge of the line count?
View attachment 713087

I realized I just needed reps. I wanted to dry fire practice at home. So I went to this site and calculated that at 11 feet 1 moa is about 1 mm.

View attachment 713100

I then used my calipers and a pen to make the appropriate sized circles on a sticky note.

View attachment 713101

I put the sticky note on a whiteboard, and have been going through the full set of strings (dry fire) at 11 feet away.

View attachment 713102


I’ve run the dry fire drill multiple times in my basement wearing my full hunting setup. The reticle is a bit blurry this close, but it’s precise enough to tell if I’m on target when the trigger breaks and the dry fire happens. I’m getting more and more comfortable and consistent. I have encountered a few malfunctions in my system that I now know how to prevent and handle in the event that they occur in the field. Planning on doing this drill daily.

Will report the results of my next live fire drill next week sometime.

Attempt 2.
10/20 raw score.
7/20 real score because 3 went over time.


Takeaways:
Offhand is hard.
Seared unsupported is hard too.

The two shots in the circle for offhand were grouped pretty closely. It felt like I did the same kind of shot for those two. I want to figure out how to make that pattern repeatable.

When I’m seated unsupported it seems like I shoot down and right consistently. I need to analyze why that happens. Does anybody have any insights as to why that might be? Maybe I’m pulling the trigger in a weird way?

It seems like I totally missed the paper on at least one of the shots on everything but prone.

Confounding factors:
Pollen was everywhere and I was sneezing constantly. This is not an excuse, but it was a reality.
I’m working through different supports for my supported seated position, and the process on that is not smooth. I definitely lost time on two shots with that.

I missed the time on at least one of the three shots because my parallax was completely off, and I fumbled with getting it set correctly.

Going to return to my dry fire practice with these new takeaways, and I will plan on working through them until I get a chance to try this drill again

 

[Bluumoon]

Tikka .223
SWFA 3-9
77 gr Handloads

16/20

Edit

Looking at this again, I think it is actually 17/20.

 

[Moose83]

Does it count as sitting unsupported if you jam your backpack under your legs when you cross them...lol. All the shots outside the circle were with absolutely no support sitting cross legged. I find that when I'm relaxed and neutral in that position I'm to low and too far forward to get a good sight picture, and when I raise my knees to get a good sight picture I'm relying on my leg muscles to hold up my arms and I end up muscling the reticle on to the target. Either way my wobble zone is really bad as seen on the target. When I put my backpack under my legs things tightened up considerably.

 

[Gorp2007]

View attachment 732715
Does it count as sitting unsupported if you jam your backpack under your legs when you cross them...lol. All the shots outside the circle were with absolutely no support sitting cross legged. I find that when I'm relaxed and neutral in that position I'm to low and too far forward to get a good sight picture, and when I raise my knees to get a good sight picture I'm relying on my leg muscles to hold up my arms and I end up muscling the reticle on to the target. Either way my wobble zone is really bad as seen on the target. When I put my backpack under my legs things tightened up considerably.

I don’t know what the answer is from a strictly “rules of the game” perspective, but the fact that you’ve done enough shooting from field positions to learn those details about how backpack placement can dramatically improve your accuracy just goes to show the value in this type of practice.

 

[Moose83]

I don’t know what the answer is from a strictly “rules of the game” perspective, but the fact that you’ve done enough shooting from field positions to learn those details about how backpack placement can dramatically improve your accuracy just goes to show the value in this type of practice.

Most definitely... I said it mostly tongue in cheek, although I was half hoping for some tips on body positioning with zero equipment. Where I live we have thousands of km of logging rd system that I can hunt off of. Many places I hunt are literally a 5-20 min walk off the rd, where I only bring in my binos and rifle. I've been trying to work on classic marksmanship but I have a herniated disc in my lower back and I find sitting and Kneeling hard positions to get into and be steady. My offhand sucks too.. but I'm working on it.