Elmax vs s90 vs M4

[Macro]

S90V has more edge holding, Elmax is tougher and more corrosion resistant.

 

[sndmn11]

Thanks for the comparison info. Maybe a bad batch. I’ll keep doing some research. Maybe add magnacut to the list. Who knows…

From what you have written, Magnacut, Cruwear, M4, possibly Elmax, should be what you are looking for.

Someone posted some links to a House knife that seems to check a lot of boxes, or I know @feanor or @Wilderness Spirit have magnacut.

 

[camelcluch]

I’ll definitely do a little reading. I have had good luck with the elmax blade I own. I absolutely love the Argali knife but would like something that is a little more durable.
Really I just want another knife.

 

[S-3 ranch]

I’ll definitely do a little reading. I have had good luck with the elmax blade I own. I absolutely love the Argali knife but would like something that is a little more durable.
Really I just want another knife.

Benchmade 539GY Anonimus Fixed Blade
cruewear steel

 

[mitchellmountain]

I'm a maker and have worked with 2 of the steels. The two knives in the pic are my own personal users. On the left is S90V and Right M4. They have both been professional heat treated at Peters heat treatment to 62rc. When sharp they will take apart 4-5 deer without needing touched up and even then don't actually
" need it". A blade with either steel that has the correct blade geometry and heat treat would be nearly indistinguishable in the field as far as performance and they perform well.
If a person only gets one moose leg done before it goes dull,very bad heat treat had to be the culprit if the blade was sharp to start with.

 

[Axle]

These knives get heat treated in batches, so it's unlikely a bad HT. I have to agree with everyone saying it was probably not actually sharp. Most factory sharpened knives do not have a good edge geometry, but have a rough finish toothy edge with makes it feel sharp for a few initial cuts. Once those toothy carbides fall off, it leaves a dull edge with nonoptimal geometry. I hand sharpen every knife I receive new, and it usually takes a decent amount of time to reprofile the edge, but it's worth the effort in the long run.

I have used blades in elmax, s90v, and M4 (and a bunch else). My experience is that most high end stainless steels are pretty similar, but heat treat makes a much bigger difference. I've used all 3 steels with Spyderco knives, elmax/M4 in Bark rivers, S90v from benchmade, elmax from ZT/microtech, and more. I think steel type REALLY shines once you are able to sharpen out a factory edge with your own geometry and refine it to respond to stropping.

Overall, I was not super enthusiastic about S90v, I found it to be difficult to sharpen and chippy, and the increased edge retention was not worth the trade off for decreased toughness. I would happily take S35vn over S90v.

A well treated Elmax has worked very well for me, but I hear that the HT is difficult to get correct (though it seems that most companies get it right now). The carbides are ultra fine, and it takes an incredible edge if you are capable of it. It is among my favorite stainless steels when done right.

M4 is a tool steel, not stainless. It will develop surface rust fairly easily if left wet. It is relatively difficult to sharpen, relatively high toughness, VERY stable edge stability (can get it extremely sharp with a very steep angle and not roll or chip out), and high edge retention. M4 responds very well to a toothy finish. It's a good steel that takes some maintenance.

My favorite steel for pretty much every application, but especially bushcraft/survival/hunting knives is CPM 3V. Extremely tough, high edge stability, high corrosion resistance, high edge retention, relatively easy to sharpen. I would happily take it in every single knife I own, and I think it would be a great steel for practically every application.

Hey, just curious if you have any knifes you would recommend looking at with CPM 3V? Use is general purpose hunting knife-weight is not a concern, blade length around 3-1/2"-4" is great. I have a $30 buck that I currently use. I can get it shaving sharp, but it just doesn't hold an edge as long as I would like.
Thanks!

 

[schwaf]

Hey, just curious if you have any knifes you would recommend looking at with CPM 3V? Use is general purpose hunting knife-weight is not a concern, blade length around 3-1/2"-4" is great. I have a $30 buck that I currently use. I can get it shaving sharp, but it just doesn't hold an edge as long as I would like.
Thanks!

Sure - I've used, traded, and own dozens of knives from low to high end. I've come to the conclusion that for me personally, Bark River knives are the best. USA made, unlimited unquestionable warranty, lifetime sharpening and repair, and the best handle and cutting geometry for me. Full convex geometry is the best all round grind IMO. Hand finished and made in small batches, so availability is limited to what is available. Favorite knife is the fox river ext-1, which is based on the gunny handle and fox river blade. Expensive yes, but well worth the investment if you take care of your gear. No experience with magnacut yet, but I have no reason to believe it's not as good as everyone claims it is.

Bark River Fox River EXT-1 MagnaCut Knives - DLT Trading

www.dlttrading.com

Bark River Gunny 3V Knives - DLT Trading

Find a selection of tough knives for a multitude of purposes online with DLT Trading! The Bark River Gunny 3V is just one of the many brands we carry.

www.dlttrading.com

 

[Axle]

Sure - I've used, traded, and own dozens of knives from low to high end. I've come to the conclusion that for me personally, Bark River knives are the best. USA made, unlimited unquestionable warranty, lifetime sharpening and repair, and the best handle and cutting geometry for me. Full convex geometry is the best all round grind IMO. Hand finished and made in small batches, so availability is limited to what is available. Favorite knife is the fox river ext-1, which is based on the gunny handle and fox river blade. Expensive yes, but well worth the investment if you take care of your gear. No experience with magnacut yet, but I have no reason to believe it's not as good as everyone claims it is.

Bark River Fox River EXT-1 MagnaCut Knives - DLT Trading

www.dlttrading.com

Bark River Gunny 3V Knives - DLT Trading

Find a selection of tough knives for a multitude of purposes online with DLT Trading! The Bark River Gunny 3V is just one of the many brands we carry.

www.dlttrading.com

Thanks I appreciate it!

 

[eLightfoot]

For processing deer in the field, cru wear has been the best knife steel I’ve used so far. You can grind cru wear to a very fine slicing edge and it maintains good stability. I’m currently making some knives out of cpm magnacut to try out. That steel should have similar properties but is more corrosion resistant.

 

[Axle]

Do you guys have any experience/opinions on the Cold Steel Master Hunter in 3v? I don't know anything about their knives, but it seems pretty cheap for a 3v knife. The blade is a little thicker then I would prefer.

I don't know the rules on posting links here, but Midway has them for $100.

 

[sndmn11]

Do you guys have any experience/opinions on the Cold Steel Master Hunter in 3v? I don't know anything about their knives, but it seems pretty cheap for a 3v knife. The blade is a little thicker then I would prefer.

I don't know the rules on posting links here, but Midway has them for $100.

You can post a link; post all the knife links you want

Why 3v for YOU?

 

[Axle]

You can post a link; post all the knife links you want

Why 3v for YOU?

haha honestly I am way out of my depth here. I won't even pretend to know what I am talking about...

I have never owned a knife with any of the newer higher end steel. I saw 3v recommended several places as pretty well-rounded; being good at edge retention and toughness, and decent corrosion resistance.

A little backround...

I grew up as a farm kid, and we butchered our own pork and beef every year; both for our family, my uncle, grandparents, etc. I started deer hunting after high school, and we process those as well. I have no idea what kind of steel the knives we had growing up were. I am sure they were cheap, but I did eventually learn how to get them sharp enough to shave my arm hair.

We were cutting up a beef last week, and I was thinking it would be nice to have a knife that stayed sharp for longer, so I started reading up on knives. I currently use some no-name fillet-style knife and a ~5" buck hunting knife that was given to me as a gift. I got it a long time ago, but I think it was one of their cheapest options at the time.

Honestly that fillet type knife works pretty good for deboning. It flexes so it's easy to follow the bone, and it is so thin that it slices really well. I like the buck hunting knife too-I just wish it held an edge longer.
That is the one I would like to upgrade. I use it for skinning, gutting, trimming off fat, and cutting meat down to size so it will fit through the grinder. I don't beat on it or anything, but I want it to have some durability.

Sorry that was so long. Any recommendations are welcome-thanks!

 

[schwaf]

Cold Steel knives are great, exceptional for the price. I own an SRK in 3V and quite like it. I've heard nothing but great things about the Master Hunter. Classic drop point blade that is well suited to hunting tasks.

Generally, modern steels are a trade off of toughness, wear resistance (edge retention), and corrosion resistance. Pick two. If edge retention is your main concern, there are steels better suited for that. Most of the premium stainless steels like Elmax or M390 have far higher edge retention, with a trade off of less toughness. If you want more wear resistance and toughness, and are willing to sacrifice corrosion resistance Cruwear is a better option than 3V. I choose 3V for my field knives because it offers extreme toughness, high corrosion resistance, but less wear resistance. I can sharpen my knives easily, even in the field, so it's not a concern for me. I think a hunting knife should be able to flex into any role I put it in, including any abusive survival situations (not that I expect to, but have peace of mind if it ever occurs). I'd rather use a dullish knife than a chipped or broken one, and I don't want to put a lot of care into keeping it from rusting. I expect my knives to be hair popping sharp and 3V wear resistance is plenty for me. Brittle steels are non starter for me as I've used plenty and chipping drives me crazy.

Allegedly Magnacut, the newest hyped up super steel pushes the compromise of the 3 factors so it is highly corrosive resistant while still acting similar to 4V in toughness and wear resistance. If true, I could see it becoming a new favorite. I also love cruwear, but opt for 3V for my field knives as it is less maintenance. This chart is from Bark River based on their heat treat. It should give some ideas of how you might approach your choice.

 

[schwaf]

Also keep in mind higher wear resistance means harder to sharpen.

 

[SHTF]

SR101, 154cm, and VN35 are some of my favorite steels for knives I use. S30v is also a fairly decent steel. Sr101 is my all time favorite that steel is so versatile. Busse makes some incredible steel for their knives.

 

[sahunter06]

Lots opinions based on experience. Reading the OP, this could very well be either a HT issue or blade geometry issue.
I’ve worked with 2 of those steels in the past. Understanding HT, Rc, and edge geometry are important for your knife selection. Consider the knife application ( farm use, slicing, chopping, skinning, utility). Don’t just purchase a knife because it has the latest and greatest steel or looks cool. At the end of the day it can look good but if it cannot do the job, it’s useless.
You don’t buy a cobblers hammer to do frame work, so why buy a knife with a steel that you can barely sharpen in the field due to its hardness?
Research the knife company and steel they use. See if it will work for your application.
440c, Cpm-154, AEB-L , and some V series are great choices for steels
1084,5160,1080,52100 perform great for high carbon steels.
Magnacut, which was made specifically for bladesmiths by Dr. Larrin Thomas has many properties that we look for in knives. It seems to be performing well by makers that have tried it so far. I have not used it yet, so I cannot offer an informed opinion.
Understand the pros and cons of each steel that will suit the needs of your knife before making your purchase. That will save a you a lot of headache down the road.

 

[sndmn11]

I found this today, 10v is the steel of my primary knife and I like this shape. It is in between M4 and Maxamet in edge retention.

Kizer Maverick Customs Harpoon Fixed Blade Knife Natural Micarta (3.94" Black) - Blade HQ

Blade HQ Exclusive! Don't miss out on this collaboration between Maverick Customs designer James Buckley and Kizer Knives, available only at Blade HQ! Features: Harpoon style blade made from CPM 10V steel with a black finish Full tang fixed blade knife American-sourced tan micarta handle Scout...

www.bladehq.com

 

[schwaf]

I found this today, 10v is the steel of my primary knife and I like this shape. It is in between M4 and Maxamet in edge retention.

Kizer Maverick Customs Harpoon Fixed Blade Knife Natural Micarta (3.94" Black) - Blade HQ

Blade HQ Exclusive! Don't miss out on this collaboration between Maverick Customs designer James Buckley and Kizer Knives, available only at Blade HQ! Features: Harpoon style blade made from CPM 10V steel with a black finish Full tang fixed blade knife American-sourced tan micarta handle Scout...

www.bladehq.com

Love that. Looks like a winner to me, especially if it's just for game processing. I might need to buy one of these...

Though looking at it closely, that handle might be fatiguing after long use. I'm not sure I'd want to use that for long hours.

 

[sndmn11]

Though looking at it closely, that handle might be fatiguing after long use. I'm not sure I'd want to use that for long hours.

In what way?

 

[schwaf]

In what way?

The lack of palm swell or support for the middle, ring, and pinky finger. The scales are also flat, lack contouring, and has sharp edges that would seem to create hot spots. The handle design is slim and narrow with indents for a pinch grip, which is great for short use or precision cuts. I find that for extended use, especially for butchering, I use my last 3 fingers to grip the knife and my thumb/index to control the blade. The blade is relatively short, so choking up like a kitchen knife would leave a lot to be desired, and gripping that handle with a 3 or 4 finger grip would be very fatiguing after long use, especially if your hands are on the bigger side. Cutting meat, fat, and connective tissue tires out the hand. I think the design would be well suited for skinning and field dressing, but not ideal for processing on the butchers block.