Elmax vs s90 vs M4

[camelcluch]

Okay steel geeks let’s hear your take on some of these blade materials. I did not like my only s90v knife. I’m fact, it’s the only knife I have sold. I do have an elmax blade and like it. I don’t think I gave Elmax enough of a try before I moved on. I may need to revisit that knife. I have no experience with M4.

 

[feanor]

Are you talking about not liking it for skinning or edc ?

 

[camelcluch]

I had an Altitude. By far the worst knife I have ever taken into the field. EDC or field work is the same to me. I may use the knife in my pocket in the field. I’m not cutting wood but skinning and processing is always possible.

 

[sndmn11]

@feanor (above) has cut me some s90v blanks and some m4 blanks, and I have commercial knives in both steels as well. I have never played with elmax and nothin about it attracts me.

I like the what m4 and similar attribute steels being to the table. I also really like s90v.

It might be more helpful to understand what you are wanting to do, what you didn't like about s90v, and what is valuable to you.

 

[S-3 ranch]

Elmax, m4 , s90v All require to be scary sharp before you get to the field, are very difficult to sharpen in the field so keep them sharp and maintained

 

[camelcluch]

I used the alititude on a moose hunt. I could get about 18 to 24” of a cut (mostly up the leg) before it went completely dull. I mean totally useless. I sharpened it back to acceptable sharpness and then went through the same disappointment on three moose. I got about 3/4 of a deer with the same knife. Elmax, easily did an elk with touch up after.
Before we get all cra cra. I ended up finishing each moose with two blades each on a havalon.
I’m really just interested in the compare and contrast of each material. Pros and cons. I could try another s90v if it’s that much better or look at M4 and elmax.

 

[dlee56]

Not in the subject group but I'll say that my Spyderco Mule in Zmax is the best butchering knife I've ever owned

 

[S-3 ranch]

Get some cpm 3v is my favorite

 

[feanor]

I wonder if you got a bad batch on the heat treat or something. I’ve had great edge retention on animals with s90v. I think m4 would be great unless you have it out in weather. I haven’t used elmax. I would say zipping up a leg and having it go dull on you would be an outlier for that stew though.

 

[sndmn11]

I'd bet a lot of money it wasn't sharp at the start

 

[Trr15]

I used the alititude on a moose hunt. I could get about 18 to 24” of a cut (mostly up the leg) before it went completely dull. I mean totally useless. I sharpened it back to acceptable sharpness and then went through the same disappointment on three moose. I got about 3/4 of a deer with the same knife. Elmax, easily did an elk with touch up after.
Before we get all cra cra. I ended up finishing each moose with two blades each on a havalon.
I’m really just interested in the compare and contrast of each material. Pros and cons. I could try another s90v if it’s that much better or look at M4 and elmax.

Sounds like a bad heat treat. I’ve used my altitude on several elk and have been pleased with the edge retention.

 

[S-3 ranch]

I'd bet a lot of money it wasn't sharp at the start

Yep s90v once sharp holds a hella edge

 

[camelcluch]

It was sharp. I made sure of it. No real issue getting it sharp just took a little extra time. Shave hair, cut loose paper or whatever you need to measure. I would never take a blade out of the box on a trip, especially to Alaska.

 

[Shraggs]

On those steels, no experience with m4. I like Elmax but not my preference -yet… It’s real good but it’s odd tactile gritty feel sharpening and it seems more chippy like 154 cm - but I’ve never chipped it. Still in jury for me mostly cause less use than my preferences. I’m ok with less edge holding if it leans stainless and is a tough steel as rolls with hard use. Therefore sv35n, cpm d2, cpm 154 and 3v I love. And still find ole a2 hard to beat

 

[displacedtexan]

If it started sharp... It has to be bad heat treat.

I only have one s90v knife, but it holds and edge incredibly well.

 

[Lawnboi]

A lot of these super steel knives are coming with crap edges. They feel sharp but they are not. Most of time they require some time to get them sharp to the point that you’re not only cutting with a micro bevel on the edge. I’d agree with above that the knife was probably never really sharp.

Iv used a bunch of elmax, and s90, along with a lot of other fancy steels. Really most of the stainless seems about the same, attributes of blade shape and heat treat seem to make more of a difference than the steel.

 

[schwaf]

These knives get heat treated in batches, so it's unlikely a bad HT. I have to agree with everyone saying it was probably not actually sharp. Most factory sharpened knives do not have a good edge geometry, but have a rough finish toothy edge with makes it feel sharp for a few initial cuts. Once those toothy carbides fall off, it leaves a dull edge with nonoptimal geometry. I hand sharpen every knife I receive new, and it usually takes a decent amount of time to reprofile the edge, but it's worth the effort in the long run.

I have used blades in elmax, s90v, and M4 (and a bunch else). My experience is that most high end stainless steels are pretty similar, but heat treat makes a much bigger difference. I've used all 3 steels with Spyderco knives, elmax/M4 in Bark rivers, S90v from benchmade, elmax from ZT/microtech, and more. I think steel type REALLY shines once you are able to sharpen out a factory edge with your own geometry and refine it to respond to stropping.

Overall, I was not super enthusiastic about S90v, I found it to be difficult to sharpen and chippy, and the increased edge retention was not worth the trade off for decreased toughness. I would happily take S35vn over S90v.

A well treated Elmax has worked very well for me, but I hear that the HT is difficult to get correct (though it seems that most companies get it right now). The carbides are ultra fine, and it takes an incredible edge if you are capable of it. It is among my favorite stainless steels when done right.

M4 is a tool steel, not stainless. It will develop surface rust fairly easily if left wet. It is relatively difficult to sharpen, relatively high toughness, VERY stable edge stability (can get it extremely sharp with a very steep angle and not roll or chip out), and high edge retention. M4 responds very well to a toothy finish. It's a good steel that takes some maintenance.

My favorite steel for pretty much every application, but especially bushcraft/survival/hunting knives is CPM 3V. Extremely tough, high edge stability, high corrosion resistance, high edge retention, relatively easy to sharpen. I would happily take it in every single knife I own, and I think it would be a great steel for practically every application.

 

[BDWMT]

I make a lot of knives with all 3 and the heat treat will make the biggest difference. 90v is extremely wear resistant but not very tough and the biggest pain to sharpen. It’ll have a lot of edge chipping typically with normal field use. Elmax is a great steel with a compromise of wear resistance and moderate toughness. I can’t say anything bad about Elmax, it’s a great balanced steel. M4 will out work either on most field applications. You can be rough with it and it’ll hold an edge. My personal knife typically is M4 for most hunts.

 

[camelcluch]

Thanks for the comparison info. Maybe a bad batch. I’ll keep doing some research. Maybe add magnacut to the list. Who knows…

 

[Bucsfan69]

Out of those 3, Elmax is my favorite. I have 2 fixed blades, one quartered a complete elk with just a strop required to bring back the edge. The next one quartered 3 deer this year, with some very minor stone and strop work to get it back hair popping…it is slightly not as “tough” as 3 and 4v… but I get a much sharper and longer lasting edge.
My personal $.02