El vs Razor HD

[HuntHarder]

Vortex was established in 2002, not 1986.....

 

[tipsntails7]

Look at older non hd models and their value. I'm not seeing this there

While that's true, their glass was not even in the same class as their glass is now, it's also before they really started making a good name for their products. Their razor scopes are 4 years old. You can still get 80%+ back on those. Either way, what I can sell them for is not something I think about.

 

[handwerk]

another thing to keep in mind is how the ergos of the binos work with your hands/face. I've had my El SV 10x42 since they came out and after owning /trying many of the top binos, my El's still are for me the best bino out there....... not to mention that open bridge design lends itself to comfort when it comes to long glassing sessions.

 

[realunlucky]

Vortex was established in 2002, not 1986.....

Yea your right I was referencing Dan Hamilton business start up sorry I'll start with Wikipedia next time

 

[MattB]

I disagree. Vortex because of their warranty holds their value just as well..

It's not as simple as the warranty, and I highly doubt that if you were to follow Ebay auctions and compared the % of original MSRP that binocs sell for that your assertion would bear out. Warrant aside, Swarovski makes a higher quality product, so there is less chance that you would need to use the warranty over time. Second, I would bet that after 10 years of normal use, Swarovski binocs would be in better shape all else equal due to better design, materials, coatings, etc. Third, Swarovski will refurbish binoculars when they get tired for a nominal charge to keep binoculars in "like new" condition. Does Vortex offer that service or do they only offer binoculars if they break?

I have friends who owned Swarovski binoculars for a decade or more and have sold them for very close to what they bought them for (inflation almost offset depreciation). I just don't see that happening with Vortex.

 

[Jjamesdean]

Wow you guys all need to realize we're talking about 2 binoculars on completely different price ranges here. Like comparing a Corvette to a Ferrari. And I really doubt Razors are gonna fall apart within 3 years even if you have them in the field alot. Go look at reviews of people who actually HAVE them and you'll see they are very happy.

 

[WRO]

Edit: vortex was founded in 2002

Yes and no, Eagle optics has been selling glass either under its own name or other brands since 1986. The same family owns both, they just started in 2002 basically subcontracting all of the work to the same Asian factories that make Bushnell, Tasco, Zen Ray, the non gold ring Leupolds to name a few. Granted they are made to each individual manufacturers specs, but that is the basis or them.

Optically the germans have them beat. For the same price point, I have been very impressed with the Meoptas quality of glass. The only piece of asian glass that I have found that compares at all, is the Kowa Promiar spotters. They are a fantastic piece of glass.

The a large part of why Vortex has so much market traction is that they will put anyone on their prostaff.

 

[tipsntails7]

It's not as simple as the warranty, and I highly doubt that if you were to follow Ebay auctions and compared the % of original MSRP that binocs sell for that your assertion would bear out. Warrant aside, Swarovski makes a higher quality product, so there is less chance that you would need to use the warranty over time. Second, I would bet that after 10 years of normal use, Swarovski binocs would be in better shape all else equal due to better design, materials, coatings, etc. Third, Swarovski will refurbish binoculars when they get tired for a nominal charge to keep binoculars in "like new" condition. Does Vortex offer that service or do they only offer binoculars if they break?

I have friends who owned Swarovski binoculars for a decade or more and have sold them for very close to what they bought them for (inflation almost offset depreciation). I just don't see that happening with Vortex.

There is a lot of guesses in there that may or may not pan out. I'm not going to take the time to crunch the numbers so that's a moot point. Swaro does make a better quality product, but that doesn't change the fact that if I drop the binos and break the objective I need them fixed. Swaro is gonna cost me, vortex is free. Just sent my truck binos in because I scratched the shit out of one the oculars. Back to me in 10 days for free. Buddy ran over a pair of older slcs with a quad. Broke one objective and swaro charged 500 bucks to fix it, I don't consider that nominal. Compared to what they cost when he bought them I guess it is..

Lastly anyone who is buying 10+ year old binos today for close to what they cost back then is a fool... Glass and coating have come a long way and at that point your only paying for the name.

 

[WRO]

There is a lot of guesses in there that may or may not pan out. I'm not going to take the time to crunch the numbers so that's a moot point. Swaro does make a better quality product, but that doesn't change the fact that if I drop the binos and break the objective I need them fixed. Swaro is gonna cost me, vortex is free. Just sent my truck binos in because I scratched the shit out of one the oculars. Back to me in 10 days for free. Buddy ran over a pair of older slcs with a quad. Broke one objective and swaro charged 500 bucks to fix it, I don't consider that nominal. Compared to what they cost when he bought them I guess it is..

Lastly anyone who is buying 10+ year old binos today for close to what they cost back then is a fool... Glass and coating have come a long way and at that point your only paying for the name.

[video=youtube;mEB7WbTTlu4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEB7WbTTlu4[/video]

 

[tipsntails7]

The a large part of why Vortex has so much market traction is that they will put anyone on their prostaff.

While I don't know if this is true or not I cannot name a single person on their pro staff? They came very highly regarded by guys on this sight. I've yet to be disappointed in them.

 

[WRO]

While I don't know if this is true or not I cannot name a single person on their pro staff? They came very highly regarded by guys on this sight. I've yet to be disappointed in them.

Gray light
Born and Raised outdoors
Cody Robbins
Steven Rinella
Muley Freak
To may outfitter/Guides to count

Just to name a few..

Not to mention they are about the loosest in the market with industry deals..

 

[stephen b]

Lastly anyone who is buying 10+ year old binos today for close to what they cost back then is a fool... Glass and coating have come a long way and at that point your only paying for the name.

Well call me a fool then- because I recently bought a 9 year old Swaro 7x42 SLC NEU for a really great deal- like brand new from someone's safe. And I can tell you they are Way better!!!! Quality glass than anything Vortex has ever made. And I have owned Vortex products and know their products very well. Nice glass that is made in Asian factories that is pretty good for the price and warranty; but they are not Swaro, Leica or Zeiss quality. Then again they do not cost as much.

If you had to sell a 2002 Vortex product (name what ever product they made then) I guarantee if you paid full price for it then, you would take a bath on it now. I do not believe that 10 yo+ Vortex products are in demand now. OTOH - this past year I sold a 18 year old Swaro SLC small binocular for $10 more than I paid for it 18 years ago. And I paid full price for it. Top dog alpha binoculars do tend to hold their value.

In optics- always buy the best that you personally can afford, and just then use it and have fun. If you happen to get the very best out there- that is just a bonus. But it is a bonus that tends to pay dividends in field use , and in resale if you happen to change later.

 

[tipsntails7]

Well call me a fool then- because I recently bought a 9 year old Swaro 7x42 SLC NEU for a really great deal- like brand new from someone's safe.

So did you get a really good deal or did you pay msrp?

 

[stephen b]

I got a good deal. But it was still quite a bit of money compared to 9-10 year old prices. To tell you the truth, I do not know what they went for 10 years ago. But at $790 that I paid in today's dollars- they are a awesome well built quality optic that will last- and will hold value if ever sold.

Not to bash Vortex at all- but they just do not make their own products, ( as with many companies today) and they are not in the same league as Swaro's. But, then again- they should not expect to be, and are not priced that way. They compete with the tier they are in, as it should be.

 

[tipsntails7]

I got a good deal. But it was still quite a bit of money compared to 9-10 year old prices. To tell you the truth, I do not know what they went for 10 years ago. But at $790 that I paid in today's dollars- they are a awesome well built quality optic that will last- and will hold value if ever sold.

Not to bash Vortex at all- but they just do not make their own products, ( as with many companies today) and they are not in the same league as Swaro's. But, then again- they should not expect to be, and are not priced that way. They compete with the tier they are in, as it should be.

Agreed, OP it's up to your eyes, look threw them and then decide for you if it's worth it.

 

[huntinfool84]

I like vortex, I have a couple scopes and a pair of binos. That said I also have a pair of el's that I bought 9 years ago for $780 because they were broke. I just sold those binos last Friday for$1250. A guy asked if they were for sale I told him no, he threw out the price I jumped and my new hd sv el's will be here this week. I don't see vortex going up or even maintaining value like that until they have a reputation that truly stand behind their product. There is a reason all binos are ALWAYS compared to swarovski!!

 

[luke moffat]

Like I stated before I have owned 3 different sets of Swaro binos (late 90s 8X30 SLCs, early 2000s 10X42 SLCs, and mid 2000s 10X42 ELs) so I am not sure if any of those had HD glass in them, but I don't feel the Razors give up anything to those.

As far as warranty I did have to send both the 8X30s and 10X42 SLCs in for warranty work (lens came loose in the 8X30s and a hinge broke on the 10X42s). So to stay you probably won't need to use the Swaro warranty I would say in my experience is not the case.

No one is saying these pieces of glass are comparable and when I say that I mean current Razor HDs and current Swaro. I think used 10X42 ELs like I had from mid 2000s and current Razors are a good comparision and in fact I favor the Razors in this regard.

In the end you only gotta please yourself. If you aren't happy with your current glass save and upgrade, if you are then rock on and hunt. When my eyes age enough I can see that drastic difference I will upgrade at that point. But for now I will struggle with my current binos and hopefully I can still glass up some animals to kill.

 

[luke moffat]

Even if folks don't see the difference in the field, one place the difference will definately be noticed is if/when you sell them. Swarovski will hold its value much better than will Vortex, and the overall cost of ownership will likely be much closer than the differential in cost when first buying the binocs (Luke might get one or both of those fly in goat hunts back ).

Not sure about that man. Even if you only get 60% back ($720 which from what I have seen on the classifieds they go for closer to $900 or 75% of MSRP thats a $300 loss) sell them for $ on your $1200 Razors thats a $480 loss. Whereas for example you take a gentleman that just sold a pair of 10X42 El Ranges on here for $2300 with an MSRP of $3200 thats an $900 loss or over 25% less than MSRP. So I would say I would be hard pressed to get that goat hunt back in my experience and watching the used prices which I do a lot of various forums always looking for a "deal"

Again this is apples to oranges so its hard to compare and if you got the coin and you can see a good enough difference to justify it I say go for it. I am just not to that point yet.....

 

[WRO]

Not sure about that man. Even if you only get 60% back ($720 which from what I have seen on the classifieds they go for closer to $900 or 75% of MSRP thats a $300 loss) sell them for $ on your $1200 Razors thats a $480 loss. Whereas for example you take a gentleman that just sold a pair of 10X42 El Ranges on here for $2300 with an MSRP of $3200 thats an $900 loss or over 25% less than MSRP. So I would say I would be hard pressed to get that goat hunt back in my experience and watching the used prices which I do a lot of various forums always looking for a "deal"

Again this is apples to oranges so its hard to compare and if you got the coin and you can see a good enough difference to justify it I say go for it. I am just not to that point yet.....

Or they bought the El ranges on close out at cabelas and cashed in on their stupid close out structure. I know several people who did that.

 

[luke moffat]

Maybe so...I was just comparing MSRP to MSRP as you can also buy Vortex on close out or demo or stuff as well.

Trust me if my eyes saw enough of a difference between the Razors and the Swaros to justify it to me I would go back to swaro. But at the end of the day it really comes down to what the individual can justify. And the difference between 10X42 ELs for my wife and I and 10X42 Razor HDs for us it comes to $4600+ for Swaro and $2400 for Razors. Again not arguing that Swaro isn't better than Razors at all......