Efficacy of Head and Neck shots for LR Hunters

[Tmac]

There's 30 threads on here about bullet choice and wound rates, match vs hunting bullets, how far is too far etc. but i havent found one asking "Why are hunters not taking more head and neck shots?"

1. the critical hit zone on a head/neck shot is about the same size as "the vitals area" on the same animal.
2. Terminal balistics is almost not a factor.
3. If you have a bad shot, you more than likely missed the animal entirely
4. You can shoot smaller bore/less recoiling rifles with the same end ressult.

I personally always shoot animals behind the shoulder but im thinking about changing that up. Curious to hear some thoughts

I’d suggest two of your list of four are incorrect, 1 & 3. The kill zone is either very small (brain) or very long and narrow (CNS in neck), the very reasons I avoid this shot.

There is plenty of room to punch a bullet through the neck, wound horribly, and not quickly kill the animal. Same for head shots. Count me out. But I know several hunters that employ neck shots often and well, I think.

 

[JGood]

Gutshot animals do not die of starvation, they die of bleeding out just much slower than if you hit the heart/lungs. I'm not sure if you're referring to a different kind of gutshot than I'm familiar with?

You are correct. The “Of starvation” was left over from a copy and paste error.

 

[Carl Ross]

I’ve taken neck shots on two animals that didn’t result in death given 5+ minutes. I’m confident you’d approve of the placement of both times. I’ve also taken three that lead to instant death. My experience is such that it’s a last choice for me at this point, but I will take it under certain circumstances. Only reason I’d personally take it at long range is if it was already hit and I’m following up, definitely wouldn’t take a long range neck shot on an unwounded animal. The “error budget” for a standard vital shot is way more forgiving. The consolation prize of possibly getting a clean miss isn’t how I like to approach shooting animals.

 

[svivian]

Ive seen alot of elk and deer die from a neck shot with little to none that were wounded that i can think of.

Head shots however is foolish in my opinion. Look at failed suicide attempts as an example from point blank range....

 

[Choupique]

Man, I really like neck roasts. I can't make myself shoot deer in the neck. It was always going for the earhole or through the face the few times I've done it.

No doubt it works great, and knock on wood I haven't messed up yet but it was just finishing shots.

 

[woods89]

Having helped break down a mature bull elk a week ago, I'm not sure where the comparison of kill zone sizes is coming from. The difference is stark, to me. Lungs/heart every time if I can.

 

[Bubblehide]

Having helped break down a mature bull elk a week ago, I'm not sure where the comparison of kill zone sizes is coming from. The difference is stark, to me. Lungs/heart every time if I can.

Clearly the guy is very misguided.

 

[GreyBeck]

Gutshot animals do not die of starvation, they die of bleeding out just much slower than if you hit the heart/lungs. I'm not sure if you're referring to a different kind of gutshot than I'm familiar with?

In fact these guys got my son’s first deer - I was with them and the line went (was a doe) “there she is, hit her right between the eyes”. I said wait, what? Between the eyes? They said “is he not a good shot?” I said he’s a fine shot but that’s a big ask. “She’s 90yds away, hit her between the eyes, or in the neck but don’t f’ck up the meat. If you can’t do that, don’t shoot.” It didn’t take a step. If you are confident with the shot and rifle, I don’t see an issue….

Long range - per OP - not my first choice.

 

[Caseknife]

The brain of a deer is smaller than your fist. The neck is probably 10-12 inches long and the neck bone is 3-4 inches in diameter. So say 16 square inches max for a brain and 48 square max for a neck, that adds up around 54 square inches for both. Take a chest cavity that is in the neighborhood of 14" square for 196 square inches, plus you get the length of the backbone above the chest cavity as a bonus. kind of 4 times the kill zone.

Animals with their lower jaw shot off will die of dehydration before starvation. Shot a bull elk 4 days after his lower jaw was shot off from an intentional head shot, talked to the guy who did it, was so dehydrated that the blood was almost jelled and the guts fell away from the hide when opened up. All that bull could do was go downhill and I found him after tracking the blood for a mile up against trees blocking the draw he was following.

Unless you are real good with the anatomy of an animal, it is pretty hard to assure that you will hit the cns on a broadside animal in the head or neck at any extended distance. I have seen bull elk drop at neck shots only to pop right back up, stagger around a bit and then leave the scene of the crime never to be seen again. If your shot is high, and you hit one of the processes the extend above the vertebrae, the animal will drop like a rock because of the shock to the nervous system, but will shortly get over his concussion and the flight portion of flight or fight will kick in.

The other thing that can happen with head shots is that the antlers get all floppy.

I was taught many, many years ago to always shoot for the boiler room. The animal may not drop immediately, but if you can track with any degree of efficiency you will always find your animal. But that is another skill that sadly not widespread any longer.

 

[Marshfly]

In fact these guys got my son’s first deer - I was with them and the line went (was a doe) “there she is, hit her right between the eyes”. I said wait, what? Between the eyes? They said “is he not a good shot?” I said he’s a fine shot but that’s a big ask. “She’s 90yds away, hit her between the eyes, or in the neck but don’t f’ck up the meat. If you can’t do that, don’t shoot.” It didn’t take a step. If you are confident with the shot and rifle, I don’t see an issue.

I’m sorry but this is just ridiculous. First deer and the kid can’t take a lung shot for a virtually guaranteed kill?

Just dumb.

And the meat excuse doesn’t hold water. There is way more meat on the neck than in the shot path of a double lung shot.

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[Pdzoller]

Nope. I like to use as much meat as possible. I saw a deer shot in the neck by a friend of mine. Pretty well destroyed a bunch of meat needlessly because he had to shoot it again in the lungs. I don’t care for the head shot either due to the fact that I like euros and I don’t like the idea of accidentally blowing an animal’s face off.

 

[hereinaz]

The size of lung vs brain and lung vs neck is massive.

Look at it in real terms. The whole skull around the brain is maybe 6 inches on a deer. The neck is maybe 4 inches across to hit the spine/artery.

And, shooting the thin neck means the most explosive bullets can pass through without opening if velocity has dropped. If it doesn’t expand, only a direct hit to the spine will drop it.

Me and my gun are a 1 moa gun with 10 shots in field conditions at 100 if I can build out a solid position. At 400 yards that means my shot is going to land in a 4” circle.
At 400 yards the wind drift for 5 mph of wind is almost 3 inches for my 25 magnum.
I have to call wind within 2.5 mph to keep a bullet into the brain. And, that assumes any hit on the skull penetrates.
The margins for error are just too great. That same shot broadside in the lungs is massive from diaphragm to shoulders.

There is no way anyone is taking a head shot or neck shot for any practical reason at 400 yards unless they are doing it for fun and the challenge.

Deer Anatomy | Best Deer Shot Placement & Making Recovery Decisions

Deer anatomy is important before and after the shot; knowing where to shoot a deer, best shot placement, and understanding the blood trail...

jasontomeoutdoors.com

 

[JGood]

@hereinaz What if you had to anchor that animal in its tracks? Like a once in a life time Mountain goat on a cliff.

If the animal takes 3+ steps, you’re not recovering the animal. You still aiming for the lungs and heart?

 

[Caseknife]

Have you ever seen an animal after it gets shot in the brain? Definitely not still, legs kicking for 10 minutes, your OIL goat would be in free fall.

 

[gabenzeke]

@hereinaz What if you had to anchor that animal in its tracks? Like a once in a life time Mountain goat on a cliff.

If the animal takes 3+ steps, you’re not recovering the animal. You still aiming for the lungs and heart?

Doesn't that scenario play out pretty frequently on those hunts? And yes, I'm shooting high lungs. A head shot destroys the mount.

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[JohnJohnson]

@hereinaz What if you had to anchor that animal in its tracks? Like a once in a life time Mountain goat on a cliff.

If the animal takes 3+ steps, you’re not recovering the animal. You still aiming for the lungs and heart?

You can accomplish that with a high front shoulder shot though, on the 1 in 10,000 chance that scenario ever came up. Just aim for the brachial plexus if you need that result.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Efficacy vs ethics? "Suffering is not part of the criteria". WTH?

The mountain goat example epitomizes the "me" vs the animal mindset.

Please, share experience with tracheas impacted from an expanding bullet impact healing eventually.

Small caliber was item #4 in the original post, that opens the point for comment.

When a person is in a hole with a shovel and asked what to do, some say try to dig out of said hole. Quit digging is more appropriate.

 

[rclouse79]

I found a dead buck that had its lower jaw blown off. In my opinion most people don’t have any business shooting at long range period, let alone the head.

 

[hereinaz]

@hereinaz What if you had to anchor that animal in its tracks? Like a once in a life time Mountain goat on a cliff.

If the animal takes 3+ steps, you’re not recovering the animal. You still aiming for the lungs and heart?

Very good point. Why you gotta make it so hard, lol.

I will change my answer. Once in a lifetime shots in that situation drastically change the calculus. I guess I might try a CNS shot on a once in a lifetime buck too. It’s rare and an exception that proves my rule.

It comes down to confidence in that moment for that shot. Without the sufficient confidence, I would walk away without taking a once in a lifetime animal. I believe in Karma and I treasure the adventure much more than the kill.

If I am comfortable with a neck/head shot I will absolutely take it. Though I have a 1 moa field rifle, 90% fall within .5 moa. I am going to study anatomy for that critter though. Nothing left to chance by ignorance or lack of preparation for a once in a lifetime hunt.

It’s an odds thing… there is no perfect solution, only tradeoffs. If I miss a CNS shot there is no chance to recover the animal and it walks away, or ai blow its jaw off and dies a horrible death. But, if I can double lung it dies, though it might fall off the cliff and dies quickly without a recovery. Opinions will vary and I am ok with that.

How close?
Wind?
How much time?

I will 100% thread the needle given proper circumstances. If someone else has the gear and skill set, then I support it 100% in this situation.

I didn’t consider the shot I made in the video below to be a CNS, but I guess it is realistically and practically very similar. I had all the time in the world and the wind call was not complicated on the particular wind direction and lay of the land.

But, I try to make sure not to take unnecessary risks or set unrealistic expectations on the forum.

 

[5MilesBack]

I've shot a few cow elk in the neck at close range, but will never take a head shot at any range. And long range.......not a chance I'd take either. If it's longer range, there's time to get a good vitals shot. And if there's no time, then it's an easy pass. There will be other opportunities.