Don't get a 30-06

[Waterfowler75]

I own bolt guns in 30-06, 243, 300wm, and 223. They all shoot great.

It's a major #firstworldproblems issue. Every time I think about buying a new rifle / caliber I talk myself out of it because from a practical standpoint pretty much all of my big game rifle hunting needs are more than adequately met by that lineup.

In fact, i could probably get rid of everything but the '06 and still be in the same boat. Not to mention 80% of the time I'm bow hunting anyway.

Owning a 30-06 is super boring - it's a total joy thief. It already does exactly what you're hoping that shiny new rifle will do from a hunting standpoint. And just like that, you can't logically justify that new rifle purchase.

I'm only 40 years old. Am I already turning into a fudd? Please help!

I’m in the same boat, boring gun that I compare everything to. Mine is suppressed now and easy to shoot. I’m recoil sensitive but that and a mercury weight in the stock lets me shoot it all day long on the bench.

 

[Packmansion]

There have only been very slight incremental improvements in cartridge design since about 1915. By then we had:

.30-06 springfield
.220 swift
6.5x55 swede
8x57
.375 h&h

You get the point. Every cartridge that started life in the commercial market was a marketing play and offered no real perceptible on game performance advantage vs what we already had. Back then, as is true now, the long range shooters were the only people who could measure a difference in their downrange performance and back then, as is true now, very few of those people really exist. The reality is we are still using the same chemistry now as we were in 1895 to launch bullets with, and theres just not much improvement to be had there outside of things like non corrosive primers, which dont require a new rifle to use.

Now projectile design, different story. But if we are going to talk strictly cartridge design, we probably could have stopped in 1895 with the 6.5x55 and had every hunting need outside of africa neatly covered.

This is a joke right?

 

[3325]

“It is amusing (and slightly annoying) to see how the purchasers of sporting rifles seem to think that improved cartridge design is the answer to everything. I have long taught that if you can't do it with a 30-06, you probably can't do it. Every time some new brass powder bottle appears for sale, all sorts of people, qualified or otherwise, leap into the breach to explain how this new round is somehow better than what has gone before.” - Jeff Cooper

 

[M1SF1T]

I'm surprised some people mention 30-06 recoil as a negative, I find it average and tolerable.

Everyone needs a 30-06 as far as I'm concerned. Mine is a BLR, not my backpacking rifle, but I love bringing it in the truck.

 

[Choupique]

This is a joke right?

No. 6.5x55 Swedish is one of the oldest smokeless centerfire cartridges in existence and even in its original loads (1890's) it is similar to the 6.5 creedmoor - 156gr 6.5 bullet at 2400fps from a fast twist barrel. With modern components it will outrun the creedmoore.

Like I said, bullets are a different story. As far as the average dudes ability to kill stuff, from a cartridge design perspective, hes really not appreciably better off than he was 100 years ago. Sure, we can nitpick the incremental differences. The point is, the tech really hasn't changed much and the primary goal of pretty much everything designed since then has been to sell more rifles and ammunition.

 

[Packmansion]

No. 6.5x55 Swedish is one of the oldest smokeless centerfire cartridges in existence and even in its original loads (1890's) it is similar to the 6.5 creedmoor - 156gr 6.5 bullet at 2400fps from a fast twist barrel. With modern components it will outrun the creedmoore.

Like I said, bullets are a different story. As far as the average dudes ability to kill stuff, from a cartridge design perspective, hes really not appreciably better off than he was 100 years ago. Sure, we can nitpick the incremental differences. The point is, the tech really hasn't changed much and the primary goal of pretty much everything designed since then has been to sell more rifles and ammunition.

Those amazing bullets you love so much... that is the whole point of the catridges . The ctridges are designed around those bullets and optimizing their performance with better catridge geometry, tighter tolerances, mor consistent headspacing. Nothing wrong woth the 06 unless you need the performance or shoot better with lower recoil or you like efficiency and better ammo selection. Many of the old catridges you site are incompatible with the highest performing bullets. 300 win out side of reloading is incompatible with the bullets the 300 prc were designed around.

This whole argument is equivalent of saying all you need is a 57 chevy the latest line of trucks is all marketing.

That statement can be true for an individual but marketing is not the reason for new catridges. Military and competition world drive new catridge development and the design of a catridge can have huge impacts on performance. The 30-06 has no place in the military or competition world... Just like the 57 chevy it will still get you from point A to point B but let's not blow so much smoke up our asses...

Sincerely,
The Fudd Patrol

 

[Q_Sertorius]

No. 6.5x55 Swedish is one of the oldest smokeless centerfire cartridges in existence and even in its original loads (1890's) it is similar to the 6.5 creedmoor - 156gr 6.5 bullet at 2400fps from a fast twist barrel. With modern components it will outrun the creedmoore.

Like I said, bullets are a different story. As far as the average dudes ability to kill stuff, from a cartridge design perspective, hes really not appreciably better off than he was 100 years ago. Sure, we can nitpick the incremental differences. The point is, the tech really hasn't changed much and the primary goal of pretty much everything designed since then has been to sell more rifles and ammunition.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

The only issue with the .30-06 is that with modern powders, bullets, and loads, it is far more powerful than it needs to be for most hunting situations.

 

[Choupique]

with better catridge geometry, tighter tolerances, mor consistent headspacing.

Nitpicking the incremental differences???

saying all you need is a 57 chevy the latest line of trucks is all marketing

I think this is a terrible analogy. The average driver can easily realize a significant advantage to the new trucks vs the old ones regardless of what he's doing with it. 100% more hp, 100% more fuel economy, 10000% more longevity, a bazillion percent more comfort, etc. No new metallic cartridge is 100% better by any metric than the best tool for the same job from 100 years ago. Sticking with the 6.5 stuff because that's where the innovation has been largely focused, newest vs oldest, with a 156 gr berger a stuffed 6.5 PRC gives you about 17% more velocity over a 6.5x55 load that's safe in a 130 year old rifle (2400fps vs 2900 fps). Not negligible, but you're going to need to shoot far to realize the advantage of even this extreme example. Guys with Tikkas push that bullet to 2700+ in the swede, giving the newest rig 7% in mv.

I didn't say the new stuff isn't better. That's false as you pointed out. I said the average dude probably isn't going to kill anything with the new stuff he couldn't have killed with the old stuff and if we'd stopped releasing new cartriges a long time ago, not much would be different than it is now. IE the whole premise of the thread. Until there's some major change (bi-metallic cases, some new magical propellant chemistry, etc) we're still played with incremental changes implemented to try to sell more rifles and ammo in a market that is heavily saturated.

 

[betelgeuse]

Those amazing bullets you love so much... that is the whole point of the catridges . The ctridges are designed around those bullets and optimizing their performance with better catridge geometry, tighter tolerances, mor consistent headspacing. Nothing wrong woth the 06 unless you need the performance or shoot better with lower recoil or you like efficiency and better ammo selection. Many of the old catridges you site are incompatible with the highest performing bullets. 300 win out side of reloading is incompatible with the bullets the 300 prc were designed around.

This whole argument is equivalent of saying all you need is a 57 chevy the latest line of trucks is all marketing.

That statement can be true for an individual but marketing is not the reason for new catridges. Military and competition world drive new catridge development and the design of a catridge can have huge impacts on performance. The 30-06 has no place in the military or competition world... Just like the 57 chevy it will still get you from point A to point B but let's not blow so much smoke up our asses...

Sincerely,
The Fudd Patrol

Thanks Dad

 

[betelgeuse]

You don't need a Maserati to go to the grocery store

 

[Big Sky Guy]

This author despises the .30-06. His opinion is biased due to a person he knew who incessantly boasted about the cartridge and ended up being a pedo, so he considers it a pedophile cartridge now. He acknowledges his opinion is irrational.

His overall point is that there just isn’t enough of a difference between the .308 and .30-06 to warrant the 6% ballistic advantage and 14% increase in recoil.

 

[Hunterrancher15]

30-06 has definitely proven itself for years on how great the caliber. Unfortunately time passes and things get better. I actually bought a brand new never been shot Ruger m77 mII boat paddle gun at a pawnshop for $700 in 30-06. I will most likely never use it but can’t pass up on a deal like that.

 

[Packmansion]

Nitpicking the incremental differences???



I think this is a terrible analogy. The average driver can easily realize a significant advantage to the new trucks vs the old ones regardless of what he's doing with it. 100% more hp, 100% more fuel economy, 10000% more longevity, a bazillion percent more comfort, etc. No new metallic cartridge is 100% better by any metric than the best tool for the same job from 100 years ago. Sticking with the 6.5 stuff because that's where the innovation has been largely focused, newest vs oldest, with a 156 gr berger a stuffed 6.5 PRC gives you about 17% more velocity over a 6.5x55 load that's safe in a 130 year old rifle (2400fps vs 2900 fps). Not negligible, but you're going to need to shoot far to realize the advantage of even this extreme example. Guys with Tikkas push that bullet to 2700+ in the swede, giving the newest rig 7% in mv.

I didn't say the new stuff isn't better. That's false as you pointed out. I said the average dude probably isn't going to kill anything with the new stuff he couldn't have killed with the old stuff and if we'd stopped releasing new cartriges a long time ago, not much would be different than it is now. IE the whole premise of the thread. Until there's some major change (bi-metallic cases, some new magical propellant chemistry, etc) we're still played with incremental changes implemented to try to sell more rifles and ammo in a market that is heavily saturated.

Yea im not nitpicking incremental differences. These have measurable impacts for the people driving these changes. No prs shooter is dumb enough to use a 30-06 lol. I think there is an assumption here that catridges are being developed for hunters. As I mentioned in my post. The catridges are all being made for volume consumers like military and competition shooters. Any catridges launched explicitly for hunting will fail 7mm back country, 6.8 western lol dead before they sold the first gun. The dude who buys a could boxes of soft points for deer season is not influencing the direction of the industry.

I fully agree marketing these catridges to hunters is just a way to expand their market. However as these newer catrudges become affordable new hunters would be wise to migrate to well supported post modern catrudges because it makes sense economically. 30-06 costs more to operate than a 6.5 creed. 6.5 factory ammo has a higher potential for accuracy. 6.5 creed rifles have short actions, weigh less and recoil less. 6.5 creedmoor isnt a maserati. Its a hinda civic that gets 40 mpg vs and older model that gets 30 mpg. The idea these companies are just desperately making up new catridges to sell to hunters is silly. Any of the reputable people who are designing new catridges successfully are either competing for military contracts or listening to competition shooters. Many of these catridges naturally rise in popularity through experimentation in competitions. 6 gt is a perfect example of this. 6 gt would also make a great catrudge for a hunter who also competes and does high volume shooting. To be proficient in the field across a wide range of conditions, positions and ranges you need to shoot alot. If your just shooting big game out of a stand thats totally different, pick any gun literally any center fire catridge you'll be just fine.

This conversation is less of a comment on the effectiveness of the 30-06 and more of a comment on how low the actual requirements for a hunting firearm are lol.

6.5 swede is a non starter for most. Go into scheels and just compare the selection and price tag ompared to 308... its so obvious. I feel there are more people advocating for an inconvenient option that is more expensive to operate just to prove it works. Sure it works but the market has spoken. 6.5 creed is a superior option to the swede. I like tinkering and totally get why people buy and load the cateidge. 30-06 is very romantic and fun. I own one its cool to have a gun chambered in the supreme nazi killer.