Does anyone use a thermal while scanning before switching to traditional optics?

[kthomas]

Based on the functions he listed, they can’t.

My contention was clear, it is only your misrepresentation of it which opens the door for comparison based on a false premise.

Your contention is ambiguous and seemingly hypocritical if we take it to its logical conclusion.

Anyways, I personally don't care. I don't use thermal, and no intentions to (except maybe night time pest eradication purposes). Whether people want to use thermal legally for their hunts is of no consequence to me, and not worth arguing over.

 

[MuleyFever]

Used a thermal last year for scouting. It was absolutely ridiculous how easy, and fast it was to locate deer. It felt like cheating for sure. I ended up selling it.

 

[Formidilosus]

Anyways, I personally don't care. I don't use thermal, and no intentions to (except maybe night time pest eradication purposes). Whether people want to use thermal legally for their hunts is of no consequence to me, and not worth arguing over.

The issue is that thermals offer such an advantage that their user can and will turn single digit success hunts, into extremely high success percentage hunts. The result will be much reduced tags for everyone.

 

[kthomas]

The issue is that thermals offer such an advantage that their user can and will turn single digit success hunts, into extremely high success percentage hunts. The result will be much reduced tags for everyone.

I think there's a bit of hyperbole in your post about how much more effective this would make people - I think there's much, much more to a successful hunt than just being able to spot an animal.

That said I do agree that it's a tool that would make hunters more effective. If that increase in efficacy is more than a marginal amount, and if it's going to adversely impact the conservation efforts of game species, then its up to the regulatory agencies to appropriately manage that.

If it's legal, I'm not going to hound or insult someone for using it. I do see how it would make spotting game much easier, within a certain range.

 

[Formidilosus]

I think there's a bit of hyperbole in your post about how much more effective this would make people - I think there's much, much more to a successful hunt than just being able to spot an animal.

Have you used thermals hunting game animals? I have, extensively. It’s not hyperbole.

Yes it is a regulatory issue, however, people that want thermals to be legal are trying to push that they are not that much of an advantage. That is a lie. It is a quantum leap in technology to find game.

 

[ognennyy]

There are some very strong opinions for sure. I do not mind disenting opinions, especially when well articulated like Formidilosus, but when someone simply comes on and says "that is unfair, you are a cheating piece of ****" and then devolve into geographical based insults... come on.

Everyone is here due to a shared common interest, one that is increasingly under liberal scrutiny. If ideas are bounced and someone does not like the idea then great, explain your position and we will move on. Some of the comments here remind me of ar15 forum or old school snipers hide.

I didn't use any choice language and I didn't insult anyone

 

[kthomas]

Have you used thermals hunting game animals? I have, extensively. It’s not hyperbole.

Yes it is a regulatory issue, however, people that want thermals to be legal are trying to push that they are not that much of an advantage. That is a lie. It is a quantum leap in technology to find game.

No, not hunting.

I don't doubt you that they are very effective at spotting game within their design parameters. My point is that there is a lot more to a successful hunt than just spotting an animal. And how effective a thermal is for a given hunt will vary with a bunch of factors. For some game and styles of hunts it could be an absolute game changer, for others it could be a complete waste of weight.

Anyways, if it does become such a big deal in which it effects game conservation, than regulatory agencies will need to do something about it.

 

[nphunter]

It’s not as easy as it sounds. Thermal imagery would only be good to use first thing in the AM when everything is cold except the animals. In the daytime they are essentially useless, at dusk they are also worthless unless scanning dark timber where sun hasn’t warmed rocks. I know people who use to use thermal imagery to hunt lions until it was made illegal in the regulations. I 100% support IR for predators, especially in the states that have banned hounds and bait.
I have used an IR camera a lot to locate animals and the put glass in them to verify, I’ve never used one while hunting because they honestly don’t work that well. You have to be able to see the animal for the IR to see it, it’s not x-ray vision.

 

[MuleyFever]

It’s not as easy as it sounds. Thermal imagery would only be good to use first thing in the AM when everything is cold except the animals. In the daytime they are essentially useless, at dusk they are also worthless unless scanning dark timber where sun hasn’t warmed rocks. I know people who use to use thermal imagery to hunt lions until it was made illegal in the regulations. I 100% support IR for predators, especially in the states that have banned hounds and bait.
I have used an IR camera a lot to locate animals and the put glass in them to verify, I’ve never used one while hunting because they honestly don’t work that well. You have to be able to see the animal for the IR to see it, it’s not x-ray vision.

My experience with a thermal was quite different. I could easily use it for 2-3 hours or more after sunrise. Later in the season it stays cool much longer too. In basins where the sun may not hit for a while they work great for most of the morning. The evenings are a bit more tricky. Areas with a lot of rocks are the worse for identifying animals. One evening I spotted deer at 1900 yards with it on an east facing slope though. While you may have to have a line of sight to the animal the thermal will pick up the heat signature of an animal through brush that you would not have made out the animal in with binos. Every time out I would find deer with the thermal then sit and stare at that spot and not see any deer with my binos/spotter. After a while the deer would finally step out from behind the brush for me to see. That is one of the biggest advantages of a thermal, its as close to x-ray vision as you can get. You will see almost every animal on a ridge in a matter of seconds, literally. You would have to glass with binos for an hour to find all the same animals. While the guy with binos sits one ridge all morning the guy with the thermal is off checking the 2nd and 3rd and 4th ridge before the sun even warms everything up. In areas where you can move easily you can check areas for deer in the dark and keep moving until you find them then sit them until light. If they are in velvet you can even tell if they are bucks or not before its light out. Some times you can see the hard antlers too.

 

[nphunter]

My experience with a thermal was quite different. I could easily use it for 2-3 hours or more after sunrise. Later in the season it stays cool much longer too. In basins where the sun may not hit for a while they work great for most of the morning. The evenings are a bit more tricky. Areas with a lot of rocks are the worse for identifying animals. One evening I spotted deer at 1900 yards with it on an east facing slope though. While you may have to have a line of sight to the animal the thermal will pick up the heat signature of an animal through brush that you would not have made out the animal in with binos. Every time out I would find deer with the thermal then sit and stare at that spot and not see any deer with my binos/spotter. After a while the deer would finally step out from behind the brush for me to see. That is one of the biggest advantages of a thermal, its as close to x-ray vision as you can get. You will see almost every animal on a ridge in a matter of seconds, literally. You would have to glass with binos for an hour to find all the same animals. While the guy with binos sits one ridge all morning the guy with the thermal is off checking the 2nd and 3rd and 4th ridge before the sun even warms everything up. In areas where you can move easily you can check areas for deer in the dark and keep moving until you find them then sit them until light. If they are in velvet you can even tell if they are bucks or not before its light out. Some times you can see the hard antlers too.

You defiantly have more experience using them to find animals than me. I was using them in the desert sage country and I agree you can find animals more easily, especially in an ocean of sage. I can see why they are illegal, if they were legal it would make it more into a rich man’s game for sure. We use them at work and I had to get certified to use them so we would play with them seeing what we could turn up.
They defiantly work better in some situation than others, if you know how they work it helps. I might have to take them out again and try them now that the season is over and see what I can turn up. It’s been 6-7yrs since I’ve messed around with them. I have a couple here at the house and have never felt like they would give me any big advantage if they were in the truck during hunting season. Maybe I’ll toss one in the truck and next time I’m out glassing I’ll see if it works. I’d imagine a lot depends on the quality of IR camera too.

 

[MuleyFever]

You defiantly have more experience using them to find animals than me. I was using them in the desert sage country and I agree you can find animals more easily, especially in an ocean of sage. I can see why they are illegal, if they were legal it would make it more into a rich man’s game for sure. We use them at work and I had to get certified to use them so we would play with them seeing what we could turn up.
They defiantly work better in some situation than others, if you know how they work it helps. I might have to take them out again and try them now that the season is over and see what I can turn up. It’s been 6-7yrs since I’ve messed around with them. I have a couple here at the house and have never felt like they would give me any big advantage if they were in the truck during hunting season. Maybe I’ll toss one in the truck and next time I’m out glassing I’ll see if it works. I’d imagine a lot depends on the quality of IR camera too.

They are definitely not all created equal. The one I had was a Pulsar scanner. I was blown away by the advantage it gave me.

 

[wytx]

We have a FLIR handheld, no IR needed and they work very well.

 

[2rocky]

This Guy uses Thermal......

You got a problem with that?

 

[Honyock]

A word of advice, if you're going to hunt in another state, read their hunting regulations and don't rely on the internet forums. When they take your truck, gun, etc. for illegal spotlighting its too late.

 

[fisherman983]

It’s not as easy as it sounds. Thermal imagery would only be good to use first thing in the AM when everything is cold except the animals. In the daytime they are essentially useless, at dusk they are also worthless unless scanning dark timber where sun hasn’t warmed rocks. I know people who use to use thermal imagery to hunt lions until it was made illegal in the regulations. I 100% support IR for predators, especially in the states that have banned hounds and bait.
I have used an IR camera a lot to locate animals and the put glass in them to verify, I’ve never used one while hunting because they honestly don’t work that well. You have to be able to see the animal for the IR to see it, it’s not x-ray vision.

That is not true... in the right conditions they are usable for the entire day... and in poor conditions they are usable a lot more than you would think.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[Rbrown100]

1. Long-time former prosecutor. I read it differently. I believe the disjunction between Section 1 and 2 stems from revisions in 2012. Hunting with lights has been around forever and the 1st section addresses that. My reading is that using a light for hunting is unlawful, day or night.

I believe the second section was added due to newer technology. In fact, there is some anecdotal suggestion floating around the internet that was the intention of the 2012/2013 changes.

In the definitions under 33-1-102 “taking” would encompass hunting OR possessing the animal in question. It’s a bit of a catch-all, like possession limits. Ie., don’t help your buddy with poached game.

If the “or” signified 2 completely separate things, as suggested above, the result would be odd. You could help your buddy with his poached animal taken during the day, but not at night since only “hunting“ with these devices is unlawful.

2. I am confident in my interpretation, but please don‘t rely on my opinion, I’m only licensed in FL.

3. Just remember an attorney can’t help you in the field. A game warden may or may not understand the intention of the statute. None that I have ever met are able to parse legal language effectively in a confusing scenario. I’ve been reading for over an hour on it. A judge could and would likely read it my way. But would you want to go through the process to be vindicated months later at great expense? Every single invalidation or limiting interpretation of a statute comes subsequent to someone’s arrest or citation. There’s a difference between being legal and being smart.

4. Calling Fish and Game is likely to get you a CYA “NO”, either way, unless that person is truly experienced with that specific regulation. That‘s just generally how it works.

5. I have a half dozen pretty decent thermals that I’ve used out of curiosity on our ranch. Not helpful in our location and conditions. Maybe helpful in colder climates, etc.

I offer no opinion on the ethics involved.

Best regards,

 

[Tbonespop]

None of the things you mentioned helps a hunter find game, which is the crux of the issue.

Bird Dogs help hunters find game all the time. Using bird dogs is the biggest violation of fair chase in all of hunting IMHO. Yet purists currently use and have used bird dogs for decades hunting birds. They spot the bird, point them out, flush them for you and fetch the downed bird when all the lazy hunter has to do is follow the dog around and shoot once the dog flushes the bird. Talk about lack of fair chase.....

High powered optics and high end spotting scopes are also examples of cheating no different than thermal optics. All are methods for helping spot animals more easily. Range finders? Similar logic applies.

Game cameras? How is that any different than the other forms of spotting game and scouting?

This whole topic is a massive slippery slope. Some of you folks need to take a hard look in the mirror.

 

[rogerthat]

I think a bunch of you guys claiming thermal is the same as other technologies haven’t seen much time with high end thermal. I hope game agencies stay out front of it. It has no place in fair chase big game hunting.

 

[fisherman983]

I think a bunch of you guys claiming thermal is the same as other technologies haven’t seen much time with high end thermal. I hope game agencies stay out front of it. It has no place in fair chase big game hunting.

I think they already are. I don't believe there is a state where its legal to hunt big game with thermal of any sort.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[TxLite]

I think they already are. I don't believe there is a state where its legal to hunt big game with thermal of any sort.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

As far as I know you can hunt deer with thermal in Texas as long as it’s during legal hunting hours.

Hogs are legal 24/7