Do you regret getting your suppressor?

[Bluefish]

If you believe 33 nrr foam plugs are only good to 15, everything you say makes perfect sense. As someone who's damn good at using them, I'd say it's a tad presumptuous to state unequivocally that 33nrr foam plugs only count to 15.

I get where you are coming from, but I don't think I'd agree to your degree of certainty that you can't get a braked 308 at 165db under 140 with foam plugs.

When used correctly and in a normal shaped ear foam plugs are 30 ish protection. When used without instructions, yes they are only on average 15 db of protection. I have read white papers on this. The most notable is from the Australian military. After training, they improved to mid 20’s If I remember correctly. Note that the 33 nrr is based on experimenter fit. That means the person doing the test made sure the plugs fit correctly before testing. this is why osha derates all hpds by 50% for real world protection. If you conduct user fit tests, you can use the actual nrr rating. Most do not do that style of test as they test much lower. We did do this testing for our custom plugs and got mid 20’s.
an easy way to verify your effectiveness, put in plugs and then have someone talk to you. If you can understand them clearly, you are not getting 30 db of protection. also look at yourself in a mirror. If you can see the plugs from the front, they probably are not working.
from my own testing, I tested fully inserted foam plugs, 30+ protection, pulled them out just a little and they dropped to 10-15 db of protection. For me to get full protection, you almost need tweezers to get them out.
don’t even get me started on the mold your own type of plugs. Imho these are criminal. There is no way I could make my own plugs to even get close to 20db of protection.

 

[Formidilosus]

If you believe 33 nrr foam plugs are only good to 15, everything you say makes perfect sense. As someone who's damn good at using them, I'd say it's a tad presumptuous to state unequivocally that 33nrr foam plugs only count to 15.

Please point out where I said “you” don’t wear plugs correctly, or unequivocally stated that 33 NRR foam plugs only get to 15 NRR? I stated generally, most, usually. What @Bluefish wrote is correct- and it’s what I stated.

If you believe that most people are using foam ear plugs absolutely correctly, I can unequivocally state you are incorrect. Every single paper or research that has been done on it has found the same thing- people do not wear war pro correctly. Even when they do, because their ear isn’t a perfect fit to the ear pro, they do not get the full protection- generally, about half is pretty normal.

I get where you are coming from, but I don't think I'd agree to your degree of certainty that you can't get a braked 308 at 165db under 140 with foam plugs.

Ok. What experience are you drawing from that says you can? Ranges are filled with shooters shooting brakes rifles with foam ear plugs that have a slight ringing, or diminished hearing at the end of the day (not to mention headaches).

 

[5811]

Please point out where I said “you” don’t wear plugs correctly, or unequivocally stated that 33 NRR foam plugs only get to 15 NRR? I stated generally, most, usually. What @Bluefish wrote is correct- and it’s what I stated.

If you believe that most people are using foam ear plugs absolutely correctly, I can unequivocally state you are incorrect. Every single paper or research that has been done on it has found the same thing- people do not wear war pro correctly. Even when they do, because their ear isn’t a perfect fit to the ear pro, they do not get the full protection- generally, about half is pretty normal.






Ok. What experience are you drawing from that says you can? Ranges are filled with shooters shooting brakes rifles with foam ear plugs that have a slight ringing, or diminished hearing at the end of the day (not to mention headaches).

You stated, without qualifications, "Plugs only are not bringing a braked rifle to hearing safe." Which I assumed included me.

But if what Bluefish stated is correct, if used properly, they can. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just looking to learn. I was intending to discuss brakes vs properly used foam plugs.

Edited to say "they can" instead of "they will." Rifle and person dependent, of course.

 

[fwafwow]

I shoot braked guns a lot- tens of thousands of rounds a year. 100% with brand new foam plugs inserted correctly, and very good muffs over. As well, bone conduction is real, and my rifles also have foam or leather cheek pieces to help with that. I also almost always set up something between the muzzle and myself to block it redirect the blast and sound while shooting on a range.

With tinnitus and having had a TBI, I’m always interested in ways to reduce hearing and concussion exposure. Do you have a picture of your setup in bold? I don’t use a MB but I’m curious.

 

[Formidilosus]

You stated, without qualifications, "Plugs only are not bringing a braked rifle to hearing safe." Which I assumed included me.

Apologies. I should have stated- it is very hard to bring a braked rifle down to hearing safe with plugs- and my not be possible at all. Legit data at the shooters ear, with fitted plugs and “normal” plugs using muzzle brakes doesn’t really exist publicly that I’ve seen. All evidence points to it being extremely difficult to do, and probably isn’t possible in the field.

But if what Bluefish stated is correct, if used properly, they will. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just looking to learn. I was intending to discuss brakes vs properly used foam plugs.

Understood. Every audiologist, hearing protection employees, etc that I have spoken to, or heard have all said nearly the same thing- If it is possible to bring a braked rifle to hearing safe- that is 140dB is lower, it’s right at the limit, and would require everything to be absolutely perfect.

 

[Formidilosus]

The point I was trying to get across, is that if suppressors can’t guarantee hearing safe, and that what someone requires- guaranteed hearing sage, then there is no combination that will result in guaranteed hearing safe for muzzle brakes, and plugs or muffs by themselves won’t do it for bare muzzles and most center for rounds.

For me it matters. I have a job that part of it requires hearing to the point where it would not take many unprotected shots to damage it sufficiently to not be qualified for the job. The only surefire way is suppressed.

 

[Bluefish]

its been a decent discussion on noise exposure. imho as hunters the “it’s only one shot“ mentality does cause damage that can’t be undone. It doesn’t show up right away, but 20-30 years from now it will be an issue for most hunters. It doesn’t help that most people don’t wear any protection in other loud places, bars, some restaurant, clubs, concerts, sporting events, mowing the lawn, power tools, etc. All that exposure adds up. If you come out of a loud environment and notice a shift in your hearing, that’s called a temporary threshold shift and it’s an indicator of hearing damage. Ringing is an indicator of even more damage.


there seems to be the belief that protection is all the same. If I stick something in my ear that’s enough. Yes its better than nothing, but it may or may not be enough to save your hearing. Again, once below 140 it’s a function of dose. 8 hrs at 80db is one such dose. Also some of those dose limits are not perfect a % of people may still suffer damage at those limits based on genetics and ear canal shape.
Those little xmas tree things really don’t cut it for most people. You need a perfect shaped ear canal For them to work. let’s look at muffs, alone they really don’t get you under 140. The best ones are in the 25 db range and then we wear glasses which cause leaks. That makes them probably in the 15-20 range. They do offer the advantage that they cover the mastoid bone which reduces bone conduction. This is part of the reason a combination of plugs and muffs is so effective. I have watched video of testing with explosives where the muffs are actually lifted off the head for a split second by the shockwave. Again, why a combination works well.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Suppressors are marvelous inventions, and I have no regrets of owning or using them, but there is no free lunch. The only benefit to a suppressor is it reduces the noise of the shot. That's it. They don't reduce recoil nearly as much as muzzle brake, and the argument of not spooking game is overblown. A bullet impacting an object next to an animal is far spookier than a far away boom!

Along with reduced noise come a host of negatives besides cost and wait time. (Note: I'm primarily addressing centerfire rifle suppressors; rimfire and shotgun suppressors are very different.)

• Added length and weight can be significant, which changes the handling characteristics.
• It's one more thing that can and will go wrong. For a direct-thread can, it will come loose if you don't pay attention. The same can occur with a quick-connect mount.
• Another overlooked concern applies to hunters who carry a rifle muzzle up. Debris from the can has been known to fall down the barrel, where it can seize the locking lugs of the action.

All these are preventable, but like any variable, they should be addressed.

For stand hunting, suppressors make a lot of sense. Likewise for high-volume shooting (pigs, rodents, etc.) or places you don't want to upset the neighbors. For this, they're almost required.

However, for hunting in big country, where you might spend a week covering untold miles looking for one shot, I don't think the added length and weight are worth it. I learned my lesson carrying a 24-inch barreled rifle with a 6-inch suppressor for Idaho spring bear in 2020. The extra pound and length didn't justify the sound reduction of a single shot. Foam plugs would have been a better choice.

Again, suppressors are great, but they are not a magical solution to every hunting scenario.

So do you have time to put in foam plugs or do you walk around with them in all the time?


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[ReaptheHeat]

Just got to shoot my harvester evo on my tikka 7 mag.

Was running 160 partitions loaded with 63.8 gr 7828. Speeds are about 2950 fps so not blazing hot. Gun is 7.8 lbs +/- a couple ounces. I have a limbsaver on it.

Recoil Energy: 25.44 ft-lbs.

Wow. Felt like I was shooting a 7-08 or a 6.5 cm. Significant felt recoil reduction (besides adding the 10 oz suppressor). and of course, no muzzle blast. It was really enjoyable to shoot.

 

[metroplex]

I can sometimes feel thr pr

Your a bit misguided.

Rifle rated cans self clean.

My 300 winmag shoots like a 6.5 when suppressed.

As for the still having to wear ear pro factor.
Go to a plot of public land.

Actually that is very misguided. High pressure rifle rounds through rifle cans DO NOT self clean. Several suppressor OEMs have stated to weigh your can. I believe at least 2 of these OEMs said if they weigh 1 oz more than stock, it is time to clean them. Hux Flow cans have to be soaked in CLP after 2000-3000 rounds otherwise the carbon and copper residue clogs up the passages.

In cleaning my measly pistol can, I found most of the fouling was stubborn copper and carbon deposits. With a high pressure and faster rifle bullet, there'd be even more copper and more carbon. Maybe less lead or no lead.

Public plot of land might work if you live in the boonies. Not everyone has access to that kind of shooting area.

 

[ElPollo]

Sometimes all you can say to people is “you do you”. If someone is bound and determined to dislike suppressors because they are ugly, to dislike shorter barrels, to prefer brakes and disregard the available information on the effects of blast waves from breaks even with ear pro, and to think that they are safe in the long run if they can get down to 140 dB despite the fact that they aren’t even personally measuring it… Please proceed. I will not be offended. I’ve owned and shot plenty of hard-kicking loud guns in my life. So if someone also wants infer that I am just a wimp, I will also not be offended.

On the cans and short barrel thing, I was happy to dock my barrel back to 16” for my can. I started out knowing what bullets I wanted to shoot and what velocity I need to reliably kill stuff at my distance limit. I outfitted that gun to meet those goals. The result is a 7.2# field-ready and otherwise mostly stock rifle (with scope and suppressor included) that is the same length as a factory 24” barrel. It meets the goals I set for velocity at distance and accuracy. Those goals are frankly beyond the distance that most hunters I know should be shooting at game, and are further than I have ever shot at anything with hair.

The big benefit of all this is having a compact, light-weight and accurate centerfire big game rifle that has the recoil and sound that is nearly equivalent to a spring-piston airgun, and it allows you to spot your shots in the scope. But the real test is letting non-suppressor people shoot that gun. They generally giggle, ask if they can shoot up the rest of my ammo, and go file paperwork on a new can.

 

[DangerRanger]

I only regret my 5.56 k can for my SBR.

The Gucci hype train doesn’t tell you that high backpressure cans suck to shoot on short ARs. Hux has finally kind of solved that without caveats, and the surefire stuff is solid and what I should have gone for to begin with instead of yhm.

I do wish I had splurged for a tbac for my rifle can to save some weight/balance.

Honestly it comes down to I should have spend more initially and got the best up front. I’ll probably get one of the hux flow cans soon, I hate having to tube rifles so much that they won’t run without the can just to not get blasted in the face with gas.

 

[5811]

T

I only regret my 5.56 k can for my SBR.

The Gucci hype train doesn’t tell you that high backpressure cans suck to shoot on short ARs. Hux has finally kind of solved that without caveats, and the surefire stuff is solid and what I should have gone for to begin with instead of yhm.

I do wish I had splurged for a tbac for my rifle can to save some weight/balance.

Honestly it comes down to I should have spend more initially and got the best up front. I’ll probably get one of the hux flow cans soon, I hate having to tube rifles so much that they won’t run without the can just to not get blasted in the face with gas.

The new HUX/OSS flow 762 tested really well on a bolt gun for Jay. If I had it to do all over again, I think I'd have waited to get one of those.

 

[DangerRanger]

T

The new HUX/OSS flow 762 tested really well on a bolt gun for Jay. If I had it to do all over again, I think I'd have waited to get one of those.

I know, I may snag one.

 

[justin davis]

I only regret my 5.56 k can for my SBR.

The Gucci hype train doesn’t tell you that high backpressure cans suck to shoot on short ARs. Hux has finally kind of solved that without caveats, and the surefire stuff is solid and what I should have gone for to begin with instead of yhm.

I do wish I had splurged for a tbac for my rifle can to save some weight/balance.

Honestly it comes down to I should have spend more initially and got the best up front. I’ll probably get one of the hux flow cans soon, I hate having to tube rifles so much that they won’t run without the can just to not get blasted in the face with gas.

I have a TBAC Dominus that I run on ARs. It works well No crazy blow back in the face

 

[Formidilosus]

I only regret my 5.56 k can for my SBR.

The Gucci hype train doesn’t tell you that high backpressure cans suck to shoot on short ARs. Hux has finally kind of solved that without caveats, and the surefire stuff is solid and what I should have gone for to begin with instead of yhm.

I do wish I had splurged for a tbac for my rifle can to save some weight/balance.

Honestly it comes down to I should have spend more initially and got the best up front. I’ll probably get one of the hux flow cans soon, I hate having to tube rifles so much that they won’t run without the can just to not get blasted in the face with gas.

Hux/OSS cans are loud. The reason you don’t get gas blow back is because they push it out the front. On an open range with no obstacles in front of you it may not be noticeable. Inside of a structure, under overhangs, or in the mountains it is very noticeable how much louder they are than other cans.


CGS makes low back pressure cans that actually suppress very well.

 

[DangerRanger]

Hux/OSS cans are loud. The reason you don’t get gas blow back is because they push it out the front. On an open range with no obstacles in front of you it may not be noticeable. Inside of a structure, under overhangs, or in the mountains it is very noticeable how much louder they are than other cans.


CGS makes low back pressure cans that actually suppress very well.

Historically that’s why I didn’t buy one.

The numbers from pewscience for the new 3d flow cans are impressive.

Have you used one of the new “flow” model ones? They are metering better than a lot of cans at the muzzle and better than a lot(almost all?) of good cans at the ear on gassers. The brand new flow 762ti specifically.

They seem to have finally fixed the flamethrower out front that I didn’t want for nvg, granted I don’t shoot at night much, I just wish I did.

 

[Formidilosus]

Historically that’s why I didn’t buy one.

The numbers from pewscience for the new 3d flow cans are impressive.

Have you used one of the new “flow” model ones? They are metering better than a lot of cans at the muzzle and better than a lot(almost all?) of good cans at the ear on gassers. The brand new flow 762ti specifically.

They seem to have finally fixed the flamethrower out front that I didn’t want for nvg, granted I don’t shoot at night much, I just wish I did.

I haven’t not used one of the brand new ones.

 

[DangerRanger]

I haven’t not used one of the brand new ones.

 

[atmat]

View attachment 567132

Wow, the new HUX scores really well.