Defund the Police?

[wind gypsy]

Did floyd resist and thus set the chain of events in motion that caused his death? Would he be alive if he did not resist?

And here I thought there was hardly anybody besides overt racists grasping for reasons to justify Floyd's killing..

 

[flatlanderhuffandpuff]

For someone who is very concerned about what they 'did not say' you sure seem to be telling me what said/think even though I never said those things......

Typical.....

Note the question marks at the end of the sentences in which I responded to you. I was asking what you think the proper response would be.

You seem to be pro liberty in many other threads. I'm surprised you are not upset by the killing.

 

[Poser]

Your examples are slightly flawed....what is actually unlawful and "found" to be unlawful is 2 different things. The "peaceful" protesters in Washington is a blurry subject...I watched video where protesters started throwing frozen water bottles, bricks, and other items at police...then the police started pushing the crowd back with force. Funny thing you can read a bunch of articles where they say it was a staged photo op and even one of the lead clergy in the church says he didn't even stop and pray. Weird then a picture comes out of him praying in the church....what to believe?

I saw this the other day. I’m not claiming one way one the other in terms of violence in this instance, though I do think the manchild’s photo op was was an act of pure narcissistic dumbassery. The time stamp indicates this was 26 minutes before the curfew.

 

[Unoboats]

I was gonna ask the same thing. I think we just go get the shovel and clean it up.

Lye pit . No bones, teeth or evidence I've been told.

 

[Evol]

What about if they amplified funding and raised salaries extremely high. Could significantly increase vetting process and pool of candidates would be better due to competition.

This experiment is being run on Long Island. It doesn't work. Average cop making well over $100k after 5 years, just breeds nepotism.

But then again SCPD doesn't require any college either.

 

[Will_m]

This experiment is being run on Long Island. It doesn't work. Average cop making well over $100k after 5 years, just breeds nepotism.

But then again SCPD doesn't require any college either.

Didn't realize this, but very interesting. Thanks for sharing. I don't know anything about the area, but is $100k a "high" salary for that area?

 

[*zap*]

And here I thought there was hardly anybody besides overt racists grasping for reasons to justify Floyd's killing..

It may be a waste of time to point out to you that stating the fact that if the police had no reason to subdue floyd he would still be alive is not justifying any actions taken. It is just a statement of fact. The same holds true for the other blm 'hero' brown who tried to take a cops gun away and was shot during that incident, after he robbed a store. blm may not have very high standards for their heroes which is not my doing at all.

 

[Evol]

Didn't realize this, but very interesting. Thanks for sharing. I don't know anything about the area, but is $100k a "high" salary for that area?

It's a good salary for the area, LI has a lot of people that work in NYC that commute and pull the prices up. I just looked it up and the actual average salary for SCPD was $136,xxx.

Keep in mind house prices are $300k to $500k with property taxes floating around $8,000 to $12,000/year. Teachers also make similar salaries there too and I'd say education is average at best.

 

[MattB]

It may be a waste of time to point out to you that stating the fact that if the police had no reason to subdue floyd he would still be alive is not justifying any actions taken. It is just a statement of fact.

Not to be argumentative, but that just a statement of your opinion. It Is not unprecedented for bad cops like Chauvin to use excessive force against compliant perps.

Even a lawyer for one of those 4 cops is on record as stating Floyd's resistance was not violent, but just wasn't the kind of non-resistance that is appropriate when being arrested (whatever that even means).

Chauvin's reaction was excessive for virtually any circumstance let alone a situation where there were 4 cops dealing with a handcuffed perp they had to pull out of the back of a cop car so they could do what they did. Neither you or I could affirm that Chauvin, especially considering his record, would not have done something with an equally bad result if Floyd had not resisted.

 

[Travistroop]

View attachment 188606

Why are you defending someone that ran from the police and killed their family? You just a troll I guess. Bye

 

[*zap*]

Not to be argumentative, but that just a statement of your opinion. It Is not unprecedented for bad cops like Chauvin to use excessive force against compliant perps.

Even a lawyer for one of those 4 cops is on record as stating Floyd's resistance was not violent, but just wasn't the kind of non-resistance that is appropriate when being arrested (whatever that even means).

Chauvin's reaction was excessive for virtually any circumstance let alone a situation where there were 4 cops dealing with a handcuffed perp they had to pull out of the back of a cop car so they could do what they did. Neither you or I could affirm that Chauvin, especially considering his record, would not have done something with an equally bad result if Floyd had not resisted.

You were there for the whole encounter from very beginning to the end or saw an unedited video of the whole encounter from the very beginning to the end?

The cop could be very guilty but that will be decided after all the actual evidence has been told. I doubt you have seen all the evidence. Just as brown was portrayed to be kneeling and begging 'do not shoot me' but in reality he was trying to take away the cops gun......so, it is not unprecedented for these incidents to be lied about. I hear floyd had kung and was spitting on the cops, so that would be assault on the cops not non-resistance....

As I see it you can be for black lives matter side which is a racist side or for rule of law, since I have no problem with those cops being tried for this I am for rule of law not the blm racist side.

The cops were arrested and will be tried according to rule of law and the protesters burned, stole and hurt/killed folks and will mostly get away with that....that's not the rule of law side.

Systemic racism in the USA today is a fairy tale .....blm is a racist organization.....antifa are anarchists. The large majority of cops are trying to enforce rule of law equally on all groups of people but they do concentrate on criminals of all skin tones except now black rioters are somewhat above the law....in some locations where police are told to let them loot/pillage/burn to their hearts content.

 

[wind gypsy]

It may be a waste of time to point out to you that stating the fact that if the police had no reason to subdue floyd he would still be alive is not justifying any actions taken. It is just a statement of fact.

Basically the same logic as saying this:

It may be a waste of time to point out to you that stating the fact that Bobby wouldn't have raped Becky if she wasn't wearing that slutty dress is not justifying Bobby's actions. It is just a statement of fact.

For the record, I'm 100% in agreement that making Floyd a martyr or positive figure is ******* stupid.

 

[wind gypsy]

You were there for the whole encounter from very beginning to the end or saw an unedited video of the whole encounter from the very beginning to the end?

The cop could be very guilty but that will be decided after all the actual evidence has been told. I doubt you have seen all the evidence. Just as brown was portrayed to be kneeling and begging 'do not shoot me' but in reality he was trying to take away the cops gun......so, it is not unprecedented for these incidents to be lied about. I hear floyd had kung and was spitting on the cops, so that would be assault on the cops not non-resistance....

As I see it you can be for black lives matter side which is a racist side or for rule of law, since I have no problem with those cops being tried for this I am for rule of law not the blm racist side.

The cops were arrested and will be tried according to rule of law and the protesters burned, stole and hurt/killed folks and will mostly get away with that....that's not the rule of law side.

Systemic racism in the USA today is a fairy tale .....blm is a racist organization.....antifa are anarchists. The large majority of cops are trying to enforce rule of law equally on all groups of people but they do concentrate on criminals of all skin tones except now black rioters are somewhat above the law....in some locations where police are told to let them loot/pillage/burn to their hearts content.

The "hands up, dont shoot" seemed to be a lie but there wasn't extensive video of Brown in Ferguson. I would assume they didn't kneel on Browns neck for minutes after he was unresponsive without a pulse.

 

[*zap*]

Basically the same logic as saying this:


For the record, I'm 100% in agreement that making Floyd a martyr or positive figure is ******* stupid.

You got a lot of nerve altering my quote to make it look like I said something that i did not say.

 

[Marbles]

Yesterday, the AG, William Barr, confirmed that the decision had been made to move the perimeter one block further from the White House as a result of the violence that occurred including burning the Church and throwing rocks and bottles.

There was no correlation between Trump's walk to the church and the decision to move perimeter out one block including everyone in it whether they liked it or not.

Compare what Barr said to what trump has said.
Barr: Secret Serves recommended POTUS go to bunker.
Trump: Going to bunker was only a routine inspection.
Barr: We had lots of injuries and needed to expand the perimeter to maintain control.
McEnany (White House Press Secretary): the president wanted to send "a very powerful message that we will not be overcome by looting, by rioting, by burning."

No correlation? Are you saying Trump would have walked to the church even if the perimeter had not been expanded? Barr's own words imply that he would not have. Trumps immediate capitalization of the perimeter expansion shows foreknowledge and planing. Even if it was not at his order, he certainly approved of it.

When an administration tries to claim all advantageous angles to frame an event, even when those angles are incompatible, I loose faith in its veracity and will be inclined to form my own opinions about events.

Your examples are slightly flawed....what is actually unlawful and "found" to be unlawful is 2 different things. The "peaceful" protesters in Washington is a blurry subject...I watched video where protesters started throwing frozen water bottles, bricks, and other items at police...then the police started pushing the crowd back with force. Funny thing you can read a bunch of articles where they say it was a staged photo op and even one of the lead clergy in the church says he didn't even stop and pray. Weird then a picture comes out of him praying in the church....what to believe?

I would not say I shifted the meaning as it was used initial. I will agree with your point about what is actually unlawful and what is found to be unlawful. I will further say that I believe the use of force to clear Lafayette Square, at the time and manner it was done, was unlawful and violated the right to assembly. However, it will never be found to be unlawful. As such, my opinion is really just an ethical judgement, so I was refraining from stating it. All of my examples fall within the same category, so no, they are not flawed.

"What to believe?" Well, "you've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything."

Actually this is once again leftist fake news, no tear gas was used.

Your idea and my idea of peaceful much very greatly. If all the protests where so peaceful at the whitehouse please explain how More than 60 Secret Service officers and special agents sustained multiple injuries in three days worth of violent clashes stemming from protests demanding justice for George Floyd in Washington, D.C.

I’m really curious what your definition of peaceful is. For life of me I can’t see how 60 injured Secret Service officers is peaceful....

If we are going to say fake news, rather than discussing facts, I say all injured secret service agents are fake news. Actors payed by Trump to aid the establishment of the Forth Reich. Of course tear gas was not used as all the riots and protest are fake, once again conjured by a vast right wing conspiracy to dismantle the Constitution and establish a Fuhrer.

If we are going to stay in reality, I will point out that timing is everything. Violence the night before does not equate to the same violent group during the day. It is the same in self defense, while you are holding a knife and threatening me I can justify shooting you. If you drop the knife and run away, I could no longer justify pulling the trigger.

War is different, but police are not soldiers and citizens rioting are not an enemy force to be destroyed.

 

[Newtosavage]

Hopefully you will be on the jury giving the cop a 'fair' trial.

Shouldn't you be somewhere blaming a rape victim for how she was dressed?

 

[Newtosavage]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, that goes for Chauvin and Floyd. Floyd should not have been on meth passing a counterfeit 20, Chauvin has no business being in a position of authority, let alone putting his knee into that humans neck for almost nine minutes. It’s a tragedy plain and simple, Floyd may have been a addict and screw up of sorts but it doesn’t give a cop a right to choke him to death. To the f****** idiots burning OUR COUNTRY down they’re the biggest threat, beating up and killing innocent people has no place here and will solve nothing.

really. you think the rioters are the "biggest threat?" LOL

 

[*zap*]

If floyd had not passed counterfeit $ he would not have had contact with those cops at that time....I never said he was responsible for his own death. Your outrage told you that I said that.
I have no problem with the cops being given a fair trial and being punished or not punished as per the verdict of that trial.

 

[Newtosavage]

What that cop did was BS. Point is, this is the person that’s going to be martyrized and tear this country apart???? A FELON?

If you think that's the point, then you are missing the point.

 

[Newtosavage]

If floyd had not passed counterfeit $ he would not have had contact with those cops at that time....I never said he was responsible for his own death. Your outrage told you that I said that.
I have no problem with the cops being given a fair trial and being punished or not punished as per the verdict of that trial.

yea, and if those rape victims had only dressed like the Amish...

You don't even know if that bill was counterfeit. And more importantly, neither did those officers, which means your comment is irrelevant.

Deflect the blame from where it belongs if it makes you more comfortable.