Defund the Police?

[cuerro viejo]

Compare what Barr said to what trump has said.
Barr: Secret Serves recommended POTUS go to bunker.
Trump: Going to bunker was only a routine inspection.
Barr: We had lots of injuries and needed to expand the perimeter to maintain control.
McEnany (White House Press Secretary): the president wanted to send "a very powerful message that we will not be overcome by looting, by rioting, by burning."

No correlation? Are you saying Trump would have walked to the church even if the perimeter had not been expanded? Barr's own words imply that he would not have. Trumps immediate capitalization of the perimeter expansion shows foreknowledge and planing. Even if it was not at his order, he certainly approved of it.

When an administration tries to claim all advantageous angles to frame an event, even when those angles are incompatible, I loose faith in its veracity and will be inclined to form my own opinions about events.



I would not say I shifted the meaning as it was used initial. I will agree with your point about what is actually unlawful and what is found to be unlawful. I will further say that I believe the use of force to clear Lafayette Square, at the time and manner it was done, was unlawful and violated the right to assembly. However, it will never be found to be unlawful. As such, my opinion is really just an ethical judgement, so I was refraining from stating it. All of my examples fall within the same category, so no, they are not flawed.

"What to believe?" Well, "you've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything."


If we are going to say fake news, rather than discussing facts, I say all injured secret service agents are fake news. Actors payed by Trump to aid the establishment of the Forth Reich. Of course tear gas was not used as all the riots and protest are fake, once again conjured by a vast right wing conspiracy to dismantle the Constitution and establish a Fuhrer.

If we are going to stay in reality, I will point out that timing is everything. Violence the night before does not equate to the same violent group during the day. It is the same in self defense, while you are holding a knife and threatening me I can justify shooting you. If you drop the knife and run away, I could no longer justify pulling the trigger.

War is different, but police are not soldiers and citizens rioting are not an enemy force to be destroyed.

Except Pelosi confirmed there was no tear gas, and CNN reported the 60 injured Secret service.

 

[sasquatch]

What happened to Floyd wasn't right. Cuffs were on, it's over. The threat is neutralized.

As for the rape comparisons, how you dress isn't a crime. There's a difference. Dumb comparison.

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He should’ve been dead from the time he robbed a pregnant woman with a gun!!! It’s just that she should’ve been the one to kill him.

Sometimes people need to think about these things happening to THEM!!

I’m sure you wouldn’t give a damn if he was dead, if it was YOUR pregnant wife at the time.


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[cuerro viejo]

yea, and if those rape victims had only dressed like the Amish...

You don't even know if that bill was counterfeit. And more importantly, neither did those officers, which means your comment is irrelevant.

Deflect the blame from where it belongs if it makes you more comfortable.

Pointing out the obvious isn’t a deflection. 5 men where ultimately responsible for his death, including him. The need to be restrained is a big spotlight.

But yes let’s teach our kids to resist arrest especially after having 9 convictions and two violent felonies. Because fighting with cops is always a positive experience and you always come out a head....


After his last felony conviction he was released and he knew he had to walk a fine line. His toxicology report says that was out the window,

Mind blowing.

 

[sasquatch]

Completely agree... BTW sounds like you could be my neighbor. Criminals are free before the arresting officer finishes their paperwork.

It’s shame what the “retreat” society has caused and they too stupid to see being soft IS THE ISSUE.

That combined with life long handouts to generations is what got us here. People never learn to provide and instead just feel entitled


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[Newtosavage]

Pointing out the obvious isn’t a deflection. 5 men where ultimately responsible for his death, including him. The need to be restrained is a big spotlight.

But yes let’s teach our kids to resist arrest especially after having 9 convictions and two violent felonies. Because fighting with cops is always a positive experience and you always come out a head....

Mind blowing.

You don't get to point out "the obvious" because it wasn't proven at the time. That "knowledge" didn't exist, if it even does today.

Again, blame the rape victim for how she was dressed.

 

[jmez]

This has nothing to do with him robbing a pregnant woman.

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[Newtosavage]

It’s shame what the “retreat” society has caused and they too stupid to see being soft IS THE ISSUE.

That combined with life long handouts to generations is what got us here. People never learn to provide and instead just feel entitled


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You ever been to Houston's 3rd ward?

 

[cuerro viejo]

You don't get to point out "the obvious" because it wasn't proven at the time. That "knowledge" didn't exist, if it even does today.

Again, blame the rape victim for how she was dressed.

You mean he didn’t need to be restrained.. lol. He just set all peacefull in back of police cruiser.

Newsflash When they put him in the cruise they had already ran his license.

Again all 5 are responsible for his death including the deceased

 

[cuerro viejo]

You ever been to Houston's 3rd ward?

Yes, several times one of my good college football buddies was from there, stayed with them a lot.

What’s 3rd ward have to do with anything

 

[Poser]

You can still spit kung flu on people after your cuffed.

Yet somehow ER nurses and psych ward orderlies manage to successfully restrain enraged, spitting patients all of the time without killing them

 

[Newtosavage]

You mean he didn’t need to be restrained.. lol. He just set all peacefull in back of police cruiser.

Newsflash When they put him in the cruise they had already ran his license.

Again all 5 are responsible for his death including the deceased

You ever cuffed someone and put them in a cruiser?

I have. Many times.

Unlike some folks here, I'm not speaking from a position of ignorance on this issue.

We had a DT instructor that way back in '94, told us cadets that if you put a knee on someone's neck, that's a deadly force move and you had better have a damn good reason for it. That was 26 years ago. Think about that.

 

[Newtosavage]

Yet somehow ER nurses and psych ward orderlies manage to successfully restrain enraged, spitting patients all of the time without killing them

fascinating how that works

 

[cuerro viejo]

fascinating how that works

Not one person on this forum says he should of died, no one says the cops aren’t responsible, they are just getting aggravated about the total lack of responsibility placed on him for actions leading to an arrest and needing to be removed from car and restrained.

None of this happens if he doesn’t need to detained/arrested and restrained

 

[Newtosavage]

Not one person on this forum says he should of died, no one says the cops aren’t responsible, they are just getting aggravated about the total lack of responsibility placed on him for actions leading to an arrest and needing to be removed from car and restrained.

None of this happens if he doesn’t need to detained/arrested and restrained

Funny how convenient that is for some to focus on.

Go back and read what Poser wrote. If you can't see it, then you don't get it.

 

[cuerro viejo]

You ever cuffed someone and put them in a cruiser?

I have. Many times.

Unlike some folks here, I'm not speaking from a position of ignorance on this issue.

We had a DT instructor that way back in '94, told us cadets that if you put a knee on someone's neck, that's a deadly force move and you had better have a damn good reason for it. That was 26 years ago. Think about that.

I’ve been placed in back of a cruiser 4 times, Never needed to be restrained on the ground. Hell I’ve never agrued about getting arrested.

Again no one is agruing that the officer aren’t responsible, but once again, he made they choice to need to be restrained

 

[Newtosavage]

Not one person on this forum says he should of died, no one says the cops aren’t responsible, they are just getting aggravated about the total lack of responsibility placed on him for actions leading to an arrest and needing to be removed from car and restrained.

None of this happens if he doesn’t need to detained/arrested and restrained

Did he need to be arrested? Do you know that? Did the officer know the bill was counterfeit at the time? Does some clerk's opinion of whether a bill is counterfeit constitute probable cause? Do you know that?

 

[Newtosavage]

I’ve been placed in back of a cruiser 4 times, Never needed to be restrained on the ground. He’ll never agreed about getting arrested

Again no one is agruing that the officer aren’t responsible, but once again, he made they choice to need to be restrained

And if someone hadn't used deadly force in a situation where it was not authorized, we wouldn't be having this conversation either. Let's not lose focus here. People get arrested every hour of every day. That is not what is in question here, and it's not what people are protesting. The decision of the scum to use deadly force in an unauthorized way, is the origin of all this. Don't let yourself get distracted from that.

 

[ramsdude47]

I personally find the Buffalo incident with a 75 year old WHITE man being shoved to the ground equally unsettling as the George Floyd incident.

If that video doesn't change your mind on police brutality, nothing will. And you are unequivocally wrong.

The Orangutan in office claiming he took an exaggerated fall, and was in cahoots with Antifa, is about the 9000th last straw in proving he is mentally unfit for even the most menial local municipality level of leadership. I only use Orangutan because he is orange, as the usage is otherwise wildly offensive to the great apes.

 

[Whaledriver]

I have to say this thread is entertaining. A couple points.

There are bad apples in every organization. Police, docs, teachers, pilots, lawyers, business owners ect. Good leadership will always prevent bad apples from becoming a bad apple tree.

Defunding is only going to hurt the people the police protect ironically. More crimes will be unsolved. More crimes will be committed in general.

Where were all the "black lives matters" crowd over the last 20 years in Chicago? Not fashionable I assume.

 

[jmez]

Under no circumstances are you to mention all lives matter and black on black crime.