Deer don’t have an aiming dot and your groups aren’t really that small.

[TaperPin]

I’ve always encouraged kids to be thinkers and to practice shooting in ways that translate to actual field conditions, so when a nephew called me out for using plates and paper targets that are too easy to get a good aiming point, it’s hard to argue. It’s easy to spray a dot on a plate, or put a nice easy to see stick on target dot or square, but we do those things because aiming at something the size of a broadside deer is hard. The nephew said we should be practicing the hard situations because they are hard, and I couldn’t be more proud of him. He’s right, a sub MOA rifle isn't really shooting that unless it can be pulled off aiming at the broad side of a buck - we trick ourselves into believing we’re as accurate with an aiming dot as without, and we’re not.

For those of us who have fine tuned our shooting techniques and equipment over decades, change is rare, but I’m 100% going to start using 20” squares of cardboard or 20” plates for the rest of the year.

We then had a discussion about working up loads or zeroing a rifle with or without an aiming point, and it’s hard to argue that if someone is unable to tell the difference in group size or point of impact simply because the target is large, maybe the shooter needs to practice more with large targets.

So far it has been a good reminder that my small groups aren’t quite as small when aiming at the broad side of a buck. My guess is both the nephew and I will be glad to use aiming points again by the end of the year. I’ve already tried only shooting large targets long ago, but he will get a lot more out of this experiment if we both tough it out until the holidays.

 

[bojangles808]

Luckily for me axis deer have spots

 

[Wolfshead]

I completely understand his thinking.
I still find an aiming point on the deer that I’m hunting.
It may not be as precise as a one inch red circle, but it still is a point of aim that is smaller than a 20” square of cardboard with no landmarks.
In your case I might draw a intersecting line that may indicate a shoulder or leg or something?

 

[Castle Rock]

but I’m 100% going to start using 20” squares of cardboard or 20” plates for the rest of the year

That doesn’t make any sense at all unless you just aim for the middle of the big bit.

Practice on a precise target like a dot, and when hunting choose a precise point like the shoulder knuckle or whatever is the best kill shot you are presented with

 

[Wolfshead]

That doesn’t make any sense at all unless you just aim for the middle of the big bit.

Practice on a precise target like a dot, and when hunting choose a precise point like the shoulder knuckle or whatever is the best kill shot you are presented with

There is always a point of aim.
“Aim small, miss small.”

 

[Drenalin]

I thought OP aimed for the booty hole...isn't that a "dot"?

 

[TaperPin]

That doesn’t make any sense at all unless you just aim for the middle of the big bit.

Practice on a precise target like a dot, and when hunting choose a precise point like the shoulder knuckle or whatever is the best kill shot you are presented with

Elevation wise I’ve never had anything to aim at other than the broadside of a deer. Nothing precise about it.

 

[TaperPin]

I completely understand his thinking.
I still find an aiming point on the deer that I’m hunting.
It may not be as precise as a one inch red circle, but it still is a point of aim that is smaller than a 20” square of cardboard with no landmarks.
In your case I might draw an intersecting line that may indicate a shoulder or leg or something?

We talked about life size cardboard deer shapes, or adding a cardboard leg to the square, but in the end a simple cardboard square is as simple as taking a cardboard box out of the recycling.

Make no mistake, the aiming is still at a very small point in the middle of the target, but it does take extra focus to make that that happen. The kill zone is still what it’s always been.

 

[Juan_ID]

Elevation wise I’ve never had anything to aim at other than the broadside of a deer. Nothing precise about it.

If using that as your “target” I see more than 1 “aim point” aim for whichever one makes you feel good, once the animal is recovered measure how far from the aim point your bullet impacted to tell the amount of “precision” that was achieved?
I guess if you wanted to you could use the same metrics the cold bore challenge does. 10” target meant to represent the “vitals”

 

[Hnthrdr]

This doesn’t make sense, you don’t pick a precise spot when aiming at an animal? I am always picking out something specific before I break the shot

 

[TaperPin]

you could use the same metrics the cold bore challenge does. 10” target meant to represent the “vitals”

Yes, that’s the idea. We’ll still pencil in vertical and horizontal lines for an exact center to evaluate our shooting with.

 

[Slick8]

I agree and disagree.

Those small aiming dots are very helpful when dialing in handloads and setting zero. I use a previous bullet hole or the smallest dot I can find to set zero at 100. I use a 1 inch dot at 300 and 2 inch dot at 600 unless the mirage is bad.

I do agree that more shooting needs to happen without an aiming dot once the load is dialed in or selected if using factory. I like shooting steel and occasionally paper deer targets or a blank piece of freezer paper. I do the same when shooting my defensive pistols', just put a sheet of blank freezer paper on the target board.

I've shot several deer and a few elk at 450-700 yards, some landed exactly where I intended and some were a bit off expectations but kill shots.

My best field shooting was an elk 5 years ago at 547 yards in near perfect wind, lighting and a still animal. Sitting on my butt shooting off a tripod across a small canyon. My first shot was a great one but he was still on his feet. His head was hanging low and legs spread to brace him but you know the saying, if he's on his feet, keep shooting. If he started to go downhill at a walk it was a deep and steep canyon... I told my buddy I'm aiming for the same spot but 6 inches higher to shock the spine-bang flop on the 2nd shot. Upon recovery, we measured the entry holes and the 2nd was 5 inches directly above the first one.

Lastly, I love the idea of the cold bore challenge. Once a load is dialed on a rifle I like to shoot 1 or 2 cold bore anytime I go to the 300 or 600 yard ranges. It's a confidence builder or a sign that something needs attention.

Lots of practice and good equipment made confidence high.

I do commend your nephews way of thinking, he ain't wrong.

 

[dieselchessy]

I pick a point to aim at. But I also practice a lot shooting at large-ish steel plates painted solid white most of the time. For those I aim visual center.

 

[wyosam]

I think it’s great, shooting at a precise point on a bland target is harder than a bright contrasting point. I never paint plates for that reason. When I set them out at places other than the range, they blend in and target acquisition and choosing an aiming point is more realistic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lawnboi]

I don’t see how holding in the center of a steel target is any different than holding a spot or a corner on paper. 20” or or anything 1.5 ish moa I don’t see a difference either. It’s not hard to center up in a target.

I shoot a lot of steel targets of all shapes and sizes. I’d rather practice spotting and correcting than hitting a giant chunk of steel over and over. Spotting actual shots on target I don’t think is in the wheelhouse of most hunters, it takes a lot of skill to spot actual impact of the bullet, not just the aftermaths

If you want to really practice for an animal style shot, put out an animal shaped target.

 

[Megalodon]

I can’t think of a better example of a solution looking for a problem than this.

 

[TaperPin]

If you want to really practice for an animal style shot, put out an animal shaped target.

We looked at animal shaped targets, but once you’re looking at a small enough section to staple on a target frame, it’s pretty blocky. Do you think a 20” wide section of this target would be functionally much different from a 20” square of cardboard? We probably will do a full size deer target at some point just for fun.

 

[TaperPin]

This doesn’t make sense, you don’t pick a precise spot when aiming at an animal? I am always picking out something specific before I break the shot

If a person were able to pick the same spot, then it wouldn’t matter accuracy wise if there was a bright red dot on the target or not. No?

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

Not really understanding this at all... How hard is it to find an elbow and aim 3" up? It's plenty precise. I don't see how a 20" cardboard box simulates anything in hunting.

If anything, I prefer shooting realistic animal targets over dots, as it helps me not aim middle middle on snap shots.

 

[TaperPin]

I can’t think of a better example of a solution looking for a problem than this.

I will put you down for voting for adding an aiming dot to plates. Nothing wrong with that if it helps you.