Debt and the Hunter

[DangerRanger]

Hmm my position at this moment in my life is to keep my debt minimal and manageable, but to use it to help me most enjoy this life I get one shot at. After really getting into shooting I struggled with this. So much cool stuff that I wanted. I would rationalize it and then my stress and anxiety levels would skyrocket. While I like the toys my overall quality of life didn’t improve.

Balancing this debt so that it is used sparingly on important things that improve my quality of life, like my home and a reasonable vehicle and occasionally I will use free interest to buy toys and hobby Items when I have backup to pay that off if I get laid off or in event of an emergency.

I am lucky that I am young have no credit card debt or student loans and both my wife and I make great salaries, still hobbies like shooting and hunting will creep into your credit card debt very easily and I understand how people get in deep. Forums can really work that angle, it’s like a 24/7 keeping up with the Joneses.

Really the place I find myself enjoying the most is to use debt sparingly, and control it instead of letting it control me. This way I can decide when and how I use it to purchase experiences I would otherwise not be able to. It’s still a constant battle, I find myself having a bit of an addictive personality, and it shows through in buying hobby items more than anything.

 

[Brendan]

Agree with the smart debt and dumb debt comment. Investing in a house or a business, or taking a 0% loan on a vehicle you could have paid cash for (and, assuming you're not rationalizing it and paying more) - I'll chalk that up as good debt, but it's still a responsibility, not without some risk, and still ties you down. While we could pay our mortgage off today, we make more on our investments than we pay on our mortgage.

Credit card debt, debt for toys and things like hunting gear - F' that...

 

[ewade07]

31 year old guy here. I've been debt free for almost 2 years now and it feels awesome. I should have been debt free earlier than that in life but hindsight is 20/20. No, I don't have brand new gear or top of the line hunting gear or cars but I have the freedom to do pretty much whatever I want. I have exactly what suits me for my needs. I buy most of my stuff used, I don't see the point in buying brand new. If it works, it works. I did however just buy a house but I plan on renting out the bottom half which will basically pay my mortgage. Double win. My saving account should replenish itself quickly.

 

[DangerRanger]

While we could pay our mortgage off today, we make more on our investments than we pay on our mortgage.

A lot of people don’t get this.

A lot of people also say this but then don’t actually do it.

 

[Brendan]

While we could pay our mortgage off today, we make more on our investments than we pay on our mortgage.

A lot of people don’t get this.

A lot of people also say this but then don’t actually do it.

Yep. "Paying off" my mortgage would cost me more every year than my entire yearly spend on hunting... Have to be smart about it, but you can make debt work for you.

 

[Chefofthewoods]

Hello,
At age 46 +young kids (2 & 5) I've been fortunate but always more frugal than spendy. I'd say more hunters I know are more frugal/debt cautious than spendy. The temptation of gear, guns and toys is ever present but i don't see excess often in my network of friends.
I've owned the same house for 22 years, outright for about 6 months without car payments, and agree asset ownership is the path to success. I also outfitted myself with yard sale-Craisglist-Clearance gear with a few indulgences on hi end stuff (optics).
That said Randy Newberg shared a great quote in his elktalk podcast I took to heart ❤: a dying friend of his once said you'll run out of health before you run out of money. So hunt hard while you can!

 

[Will_m]

This may have already been mentioned, but I noticed you can now finance hunting clothes.

I'm all for do whatever you want and smoke 'em if you got 'em, but I just have to shake my head at some things.

Things are getting pretty silly about being decked head to toe (and underwear) in high end matching camo just for the sake of having an outfit. Don't forget matching gaiters!

That being said, there is some nice gear out there.

 

[flatlanderhuffandpuff]

I pity the guy who gets assigned to repo the undies after a 10 day back country hunt.

 

[ChromeKype]

I pity the guy who gets assigned to repo the undies after a 10 day back country hunt.

Imagine having your credit hit due to a late payment on your wool beanie.


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[Wapiti1]

Good on you for setting yourself up

Yep. "Paying off" my mortgage would cost me more every year than my entire yearly spend on hunting... Have to be smart about it, but you can make debt work for you.

My wife and I do a re-assessment of our finances in January every year just to figure out when the best time for such things will be. Debt annoys her to no end, but when you put it on electronic paper and see what is really what, the tune changes. We did pay off the house last fall and we sent the payment into an investment account. No changes to our normal lives.

I really wish high school taught a wealth building class and you had to take it as a Junior and again as a Senior.

I'm working with our daughter on financial planning. OK you buy a $1200 iphone. Or you buy a $150 whatever phone, and keep $1050 to invest. One day your refrigerator will die. One day, you'll want to take a bigger vacation. One day, you'll need a car, or have a medical issue, or whatever. And don't count on us, we plan on spending every penny of what could be your inheritance. You'll inherit a house full of dead animals and closets full or old people clothes.

Jeremy

 

[Lukem]

Going into debt for gear is insane. House is reasonable, land/investments, cars and education are understandable. Anything else (other than basic life needs in a catastrophic situation) is downright foolish.

I agree that the FL thing is predatory. People are nuts about gear and unwilling to wait for anything. Catching big, dumb fish with that bait.

 

[Marbles]

OP, congratulations. Being debt free is nice. Dave Ramsey has a good method, like many things, what works for one of us may not for another.

I make about 1200 a year in credit card rewards, but never pay interest (my rent is the only thing I don't pay with a credit card). I keep a budget and write things out as I buy, even though the money will sit in my bank account for another 30 days or so until I pay the balance. I use to keep a budget in an excel sheet, but it would end up inaccurate every few months because something was not taken out or my wife forgot to give me a receipt. I now pay for YNAB, and that has made budgeting easier and more accurate.

I am going into debt for my masters, but that will pay for itself in under 3 years after I finish and I have no other debt. I have not stayed in one place long enough to make buying a house worthwhile yet.

I have money in savings, though I could have more if not for gear and a couple trips. I will not get things I cannot afford, but I also live below my means so that I can afford the things I (and my wife) want to do. My wife is able to stay at home with the kid and pursue her goals (which payed employment would not help with). We will have our second daughter in October. Knowing that the money for those medical expenses was already in the bank takes a lot of stress off. Same goes for unexpected expenses, my wife cracked a tooth and needed a root canal and crown. Even with dental insurance it was $1600 out of pocket. Sure was nice to just pay it and not worry about were the money would come from.

I would like a new truck, but my 23 year old Tacoma still runs well, and life would have more stress with a car payment or no money in the bank living paycheck to paycheck.

I'm at the point where I have all the gear I need and some that is just nice to have. Now I have to turn off the drive to research gear. That may be easier said than done. Especially now that I don't get out much, between work and school, so there is a lot of room to project experiences on new gear. I'm trying to decide if reloading would give me something to tinker with and help, or if it is just one more thing to sink money into.

 

[Wapiti1]

OP, congratulations. Being debt free is nice. Dave Ramsey has a good method, like many things, what works for one of us may not for another.

I make about 1200 a year in credit card rewards, but never pay interest (my rent is the only thing I don't pay with a credit card). I keep a budget and write things out as I buy, even though the money will sit in my bank account for another 30 days or so until I pay the balance. I use to keep a budget in an excel sheet, but it would end up inaccurate every few months because something was not taken out or my wife forgot to give me a receipt. I now pay for YNAB, and that has made budgeting easier and more accurate.

Credit card points can be great. We started them quite a few years ago, and this fall my flights to Alaska are free in first class. My wife and I will also fly to MT to visit my folks on points.

We pay all normal bills on the CC and pay it off each month. It actually makes it easy. We just have X% of each paycheck dumped into the household account and pay the CC out of that.

Lot's of way to skin that cat, but it costs us nothing to get free plane tickets. I like that. You have to have discipline though to make it work.

Jeremy

 

[Chefofthewoods]

Yeah the concept of financing with the manufacturer isn't fundamentally different from paying on your cc and minimum payments....might get a better interest rate!

 

[452b264]

I have an old friend who is dressed like your grandfather when hunting, uses a 40 year old rifle with a $250 scope and drives a 12 year old truck thats paid for. When you enter his house it looks like the deer heads in cabelas but better.
I also know people who own the latest/ best gear made, including complete custom rifles with several thousand dollars scopes on top of them, they drive really expensive trucks that are not paid for. Not one of these guys is even half the hunter he is. If you gave each of them a tag for a mediocre unit in a state known for big mule deer I know who Im going to bet my money on to find/get a really good buck.

 

[Chefofthewoods]

Good on you for setting yourself up


My wife and I do a re-assessment of our finances in January every year just to figure out when the best time for such things will be. Debt annoys her to no end, but when you put it on electronic paper and see what is really what, the tune changes. We did pay off the house last fall and we sent the payment into an investment account. No changes to our normal lives.

I really wish high school taught a wealth building class and you had to take it as a Junior and again as a Senior.

I'm working with our daughter on financial planning. OK you buy a $1200 iphone. Or you buy a $150 whatever phone, and keep $1050 to invest. One day your refrigerator will die. One day, you'll want to take a bigger vacation. One day, you'll need a car, or have a medical issue, or whatever. And don't count on us, we plan on spending every penny of what could be your inheritance. You'll inherit a house full of dead animals and closets full or old people clothes.

Jeremy

For sure, don't think when U die your house full of furniture, 40yr old plates & cookware or worn out clothes and items are worth anything! I'll be happy if my estate sale when I die pays for my coffin and few nice flowers.

 

[grossklw]

Personally, I despite Dave Ramsey but realize he has a place. I think his advice is ok for people who are struggling with finances and debt; but once you have a net worth of above zero I find a lot of his advice absolute garbage. Buy a house with one of "his" providers? Only get a financial adviser that he endorses because only a financial planner can do it better than you, right? Index funds will outperform 99% of financial advisors when you include their fees (unless your financial advisor is Ray Daalio and Warren Buffet). Never ever take a credit card out because they're terrible ideas right? My wife and I went to Hawaii for 10 days and stayed right on the beach and didn't pay a penny with the rewards of about half a year. Pay them off and track your spending, not that difficult.

I also disagree on debt, consumer debt I absolutely agree is financial suicide and a terrible idea, but asset and income producing debt I'll take on all day and don't anticipating stopping anytime soon; especially with current interest rates. I'm 31 and am technically about 3 million in debt and I sleep like a baby. I own a significant rental portfolio that cash flows very well that wouldn't have been possible without taking on debt. Dave would say keep chugging away at that 401k like the rest of the country and make sure you pay one of my advisors 1% of your portfolio every year in a mutual fund... If I would've went the Dave Ramsey route instead of what I'm currently doing out of college I would have around 700k less in net worth.

Amen to the high school wealth building class, amazes me how many 19 year olds I see driving lifted F-250's wondering why they can't afford to do anything.

 

[Evol]

My wife and I have some debt (cars, mortgage, small cc) but we also have 2 years of living expenses in the bank. I'm 30 now and finally feel like I'm living because I'm not always worried about money, I used to be worried about next months rent payment and the relief of not worrying about that anymore is great.

I have a business and without credit cards and taking on debt I probably wouldn't survived the first 3 years, I still use mine but usually pay them off at the end of the month now or to help with cash flow disruptions.

 

[ChromeKype]

Personally, I despite Dave Ramsey but realize he has a place. I think his advice is ok for people who are struggling with finances and debt; but once you have a net worth of above zero I find a lot of his advice absolute garbage. Buy a house with one of "his" providers? Only get a financial adviser that he endorses because only a financial planner can do it better than you, right? Index funds will outperform 99% of financial advisors when you include their fees (unless your financial advisor is Ray Daalio and Warren Buffet). Never ever take a credit card out because they're terrible ideas right? My wife and I went to Hawaii for 10 days and stayed right on the beach and didn't pay a penny with the rewards of about half a year. Pay them off and track your spending, not that difficult.

I also disagree on debt, consumer debt I absolutely agree is financial suicide and a terrible idea, but asset and income producing debt I'll take on all day and don't anticipating stopping anytime soon; especially with current interest rates. I'm 31 and am technically about 3 million in debt and I sleep like a baby. I own a significant rental portfolio that cash flows very well that wouldn't have been possible without taking on debt. Dave would say keep chugging away at that 401k like the rest of the country and make sure you pay one of my advisors 1% of your portfolio every year in a mutual fund... If I would've went the Dave Ramsey route instead of what I'm currently doing out of college I would have around 700k less in net worth.

Amen to the high school wealth building class, amazes me how many 19 year olds I see driving lifted F-250's wondering why they can't afford to do anything.

As an aspiring Entrepreneur I agree with some of what you saying. I believe Dave’s advice, which is really just common sense is excellent to get you in the right place (out of debt with a solid savings). His entire full scope strategy is extremely “defensive” as opposed to offensive with leverage and taking on debt for assets.

As a sales rep I understand his constant selling of his “smartvestor” program. Still annoying as Vanguard is really all you need.

I mean he’s communicating to the masses of which the majority is incredibly financially illiterate.


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[Will_m]