CPW - ‘Righting’ some Wrongs

[tdhanses]

LOL yes they do. I'll break it down as simple as possible for you.


Um wrong again.

Lets use Wyoming for example. Wyoming is one of the least populated states. Wyoming household income averages $65k. New York household income averages $71k. So fairly close. There are almost 600,000 residents in Wyoming. There are almost 20 million residents in NY. Pretty simple to see just the residents of NY monetarily support public land way more than Wyoming residents could dream of.

Even if you broke it down by resident hunter/non resident hunter. Wyoming has 131k licensed residents. NY has 700k. Texas has over 1 million. Just those 2 states would probably have as many licensed resident hunters as ID, MT, WY, CO, AZ, NM, NV, and UT combined. Then add WI, MN, PA, etc.

It is extremely simple to see that public lands in the west are mostly paid for with non res dollars.

It’s a losing cause, those that free load never see it unless they are paying up. WY is a classic welfare state yet if you ask their residents I bet the majority are against welfare.

 

[realunlucky]

What exactly is it that you think all of those residents in other states are paying for?
They didn't buy the land. The land doesn't disappear if more money isn't thrown at it every year.

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Not sure what you saying here

Are you trying to make the argument that residents contribute more to public lands than non-residents?





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[MallardSX2]

So, I’ll be that guy.

If states want to shut out non-residents and us NR hunters can no longer get tags and guys have 0 interest in doing anything other than hunting on those public lands…Where do you think guys like me are going to stand when the govt goes to sell those lands to the highest bidder to pay down the 30 trillion deficit our country has???

Oooooooooooo

No.

I.

Didn’t.

But think about that. I’ll remember how you treated us and I won’t be coming to your rescue when billion dollar investors are coming in to build golf courses and condos and why the hell should I!? Remember, after all, nr’s didn’t offer you anything…right?!

Never has the saying “biting the hand that feeds you” been truer than western hunting. I think they made up that saying just for it actually.

If anything NR tags should be increased for what we have done for these states….

 

[PathFinder]

My question is: What precisely are non-residents contributing to in terms of public land, or wildlife?
Yes, there are more of them, and they pay more taxes. But what does that do for anything?

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[MallardSX2]

My question is: What precisely are non-residents contributing to in terms of public land, or wildlife?
Yes, there are more of them, and they pay more taxes. But what does that do for anything?

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You’re kidding right?

 

[svivian]

I never realized that the 15 million hunters in the USA have been the only reason we get to enjoy public land...

 

[Billy Goat]

Where's that popcorn thingy.

 

[svivian]

Where's that popcorn thingy.

I got you

 

[WTFJohn]

I never realized that the 15 million hunters in the USA have been the only reason we get to enjoy public land...

The brave NR, not fearing the danger involved, heads west to save public lands for 9 days every fall. I am thankful for their sacrifice.

 

[Reburn]

.

 

[MallardSX2]

The brave western resident enduring those hard winters while riding their pony into the sunset and living on a 1/2 acre that’s worth more than their trailer and all of the rusty junk sitting around it combined. Lol

 

[tdhanses]

The brave western resident enduring those hard winters while riding their pony into the sunset and living on a 1/2 acre that’s worth more than their trailer and all of the rusty junk sitting around it combined. Lol

And getting a tax refund while paying nothing in. When you think about it the Liberal front range in CO does more for keeping lands public then the entire population of WY and MT combined, purely in votes and definitely in taxes.

 

[MallardSX2]

Honestly this entire tag situation could have been completely avoided just by limiting otc to residents only and taking points for an NR otc tag. But the cpw is clueless.

There are so many better ways to appease resident hunters than wrecking nr’s plans that they have been buying points for over the course of 10+ years.

 

[Amos Moses]

Am I wrong in interpreting the change as CPW just correcting the allocation to what it was supposed to be? They’ve been using 16 year old data. That sounds pretty rational to me.

 

[realunlucky]

Honestly this entire tag situation could have been completely avoided just by limiting otc to residents only and taking points for an NR otc tag. But the cpw is clueless.

There are so many better ways to appease resident hunters than wrecking nr’s plans that they have been buying points for over the course of 10+ years.

To be fair we are talking a limited of number of affected tags. Does it suck to be non resident saving points yep and has me reevaluating my draw strategy. It also sucks for the resident of Colorado as they watch the population continue to grow and thier own opportunities shrink.

Sadly those that continue to push for draconian non-resident measures could very likely see thier prosperity pushed out of Colorado due to the high cost of living there. Basically punishing thier own next-generation.

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[sndmn11]

Am I wrong in interpreting the change as CPW just correcting the allocation to what it was supposed to be? They’ve been using 16 year old data. That sounds pretty rational to me.

Correct.

Everything else mentioned in here is just tangent theories to justify complaints. To include the folks who are talking about limitations of OTC licenses.

The "non residents pay more for public land" concept is a new one to me. Doesn't everyone use the same federal tax code? A person making $X pays the same as the next person who makes $X, just like the person who makes $2X pays the same as the other person who makes $2X.

 

[Poser]

So, I’ll be that guy.

If states want to shut out non-residents and us NR hunters can no longer get tags and guys have 0 interest in doing anything other than hunting on those public lands…Where do you think guys like me are going to stand when the govt goes to sell those lands to the highest bidder to pay down the 30 trillion deficit our country has???

Oooooooooooo

No.

I.

Didn’t.

But think about that. I’ll remember how you treated us and I won’t be coming to your rescue when billion dollar investors are coming in to build golf courses and condos and why the hell should I!? Remember, after all, nr’s didn’t offer you anything…right?!

Never has the saying “biting the hand that feeds you” been truer than western hunting. I think they made up that saying just for it actually.

If anything NR tags should be increased for what we have done for these states….

It’s interesting how state tag allocations and federal public lands access seem to keep getting convoluted as a single issue. The fact that you do not have a big game tag has nothing to do with your access to Western public lands. You could small game hunt in the best elk unit CO has to offer right smack in the middle of the rut. Or fish. Or camp. Or ride dirt bikes, SxS, Overland adventures. Ski. Mtn bike. Snow mobile. Car camp in one spot for 14 days. Thru hike the Colorado trail…. All of the things that any person can do except your ability to hunt big game is regulated.

Here’s the sentiment you are expressing:
“If I’m not entitled to an elk tag every year in CO, then i don’t give a shit about public land”

 

[wytx]

The brave western resident enduring those hard winters while riding their pony into the sunset and living on a 1/2 acre that’s worth more than their trailer and all of the rusty junk sitting around it combined. Lol

Guess what we don't live in a trailer . Wow, now we're trailer trash.
You really take the cake.

 

[sndmn11]

Here’s the sentiment you are expressing:
“If I’m not entitled to THE BEST elk tag every year in CO, then i don’t give a shit about public land”

I fixed it.

Every resident or non-resident can hunt OTC either sex elk Sept 1-Jan 31 in unlimited quantity.
People make it seem like they just want opportunity, but when it is literally unlimited, they scoff at the idea, turn their nose up, and make it apparent that they need more.

 

[Billy_Goat]

I just pulled up some 2021 and 2022 tag data.



just looking at the DRAW recap for 2022, overall, 62% of all draw tags went to resident adults. 30% went to nonres adults. 7% to resident youth, and 1% to nonres youth.

from what I can gather, the draw tags represent about 42% of all tags sold, with the 58% balance being OTC, of course.

unless I'm doing my math wrong*, about 86% of the tag sales is coming from NR tag sales with the 14% balance being resident tag sales (at least, on Draw hunts, which seems to be the OP's topic issue).

*I dont know what the OTC spread is on Res vs NR, so I really dont know what the overall tag sales budget is. if someone has that data, I'd be happy to update my spreadsheet.

I'm not offering an opinion here, just trying to offer data.