Covid in the Colorado Backcountry

[gelton]

Can you provide a source for this other than a Trump tweet? I cannot find where the WHO has called "for an end to lockdowns." I can find where it is stated that lockdowns should not be the primary means of control and are only a tool to buy time while other resources are fleshed out. The difference between these two things is huge.

15 days to flatten the curve, bro:

World Health Organization envoy urges end to coronavirus pandemic lockdowns

A leading World Health Organization official has urged governments to stop using lockdowns as their primary method of fighting the novel coronavirus pandemic, citing the devastating economic and public-health consequences.

www.washingtontimes.com

 

[Newtosavage]

You forgot to screech "WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN??!!!???"

Nah, it ain't the children. It's killing off the last of the greatest generation that I'm not interested in being a party to. But you do what you want.

 

[trophyhill]

Probably people from New Mexico bringing it to CO. They are scared to death of getting a dust particle in their mouth in that state.

As a NM resident who’s been in southern CO and commuting back and forth since the beginning of September, I’d have to give you the big middle finger and an FU on that one..........

 

[Marbles]

15 days to flatten the curve, bro:

World Health Organization envoy urges end to coronavirus pandemic lockdowns

A leading World Health Organization official has urged governments to stop using lockdowns as their primary method of fighting the novel coronavirus pandemic, citing the devastating economic and public-health consequences.

www.washingtontimes.com

The part of my post you quoted, quoted this very interview.

You forgot to screech "WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN??!!!???"

Letting your voice get high pitched creates a positive feedback loop that increases your sympathetic nervous system response and degrades cognitive and motor function in high stress situations. It also breaks down communication, degrading team cohesion.

But, if I was to screech it would have two question marks and five exclamation marks. Five question marks broken by three exclamation marks is FUBAR, like total goat rodeo of emotion. At least the all caps is correct. I really don't think I could have kept it together if that detail had been wrong, like I would have had to take my soul out of the jar in the closet and uncrush it.....I wonder if I can still find that jar.....

 

[gelton]

The part of my post you quoted, quoted this very interview.



Letting your voice get high pitched creates a positive feedback loop that increases your sympathetic nervous system response and degrades cognitive and motor function in high stress situations. It also breaks down communication, degrading team cohesion.

But, if I was to screech it would have two question marks and five exclamation marks. Five question marks broken by three exclamation marks is FUBAR, like total goat rodeo of emotion. At least the all caps is correct. I really don't think I could have kept it together if that detail had been wrong, like I would have had to take my soul out of the jar in the closet and uncrush it.....I wonder if I can still find that jar.....

So which part of "a tool to buy time while other resources are fleshed out. The difference between these two things is huge." is different?

Are you claiming that in the last 7+ months "science" has not been able to flesh out other resources, or that the lockdowns haven't been long and pervasive enough of a tool to buy time?

Not that I am quoting the WHO as some kind of de facto arbiter of truth, they have proven themselves worthless time and again. Data isn't political and the data says there is a 99% chance of survival even if you do catch it, so, unless I am misunderstanding your premise, the "cure" that you are promoting is indeed worse than the disease.

 

[brsnow]

So if I’m out hunting and I get “shortness of breath or difficulty breathing, fatigue, and muscle or body aches,” I’m not out of shape, I just have Covid, right???

If it with you for oerputa

So which part of "a tool to buy time while other resources are fleshed out. The difference between these two things is huge." is different?

Are you claiming that in the last 7+ months "science" has not been able to flesh out other resources, or that the lockdowns haven't been long and pervasive enough of a tool to buy time?

Not that I am quoting the WHO as some kind of de facto arbiter of truth, they have proven themselves worthless time and again. Data isn't political and the data says there is a 99% chance of survival even if you do catch it, so, unless I am misunderstanding your premise, the "cure" that you are promoting is indeed worse than the disease.

herpes has a high survival rate as well.

 

[Carpenterant]

I’m disappointed in some of the responses here! We are all supposed to live in fear

 

[Marbles]

So which part of "a tool to buy time while other resources are fleshed out. The difference between these two things is huge." is different?

Are you claiming that in the last 7+ months "science" has not been able to flesh out other resources, or that the lockdowns haven't been long and pervasive enough of a tool to buy time?

Not that I am quoting the WHO as some kind of de facto arbiter of truth, they have proven themselves worthless time and again. Data isn't political and the data says there is a 99% chance of survival even if you do catch it, so, unless I am misunderstanding your premise, the "cure" that you are promoting is indeed worse than the disease.

You are misunderstanding my premise. My statement that you quoted needs to be taken in the context of the post it was replying to, and quoted, originally. Added to that is the fact that I have outlined a position on lockdowns already in a post that came after the one you are quoting. I see nothing to clarify based on your post, so I will refer you back to my earlier posts rather than wasting everyone's time by restating what I have already written.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I feel like it requires a level of willful selectivity to read what I have written as even remotely advocating lockdowns as a cure, especially given my post timestamped for 10:09 AM today (quoted below). Perhaps I am also wrong about this, but I consider the use of the term 'bro' to be intentionally insulting which further inclines me to believe you are willfully twisting what I have said and stripping it of context. Add the sneer quotes around science and cure combined with linking something I quoted verbatim with not constructive comment as to how it altered what I said; all leaves me with the impression that your are not actually interested in a discussion.

What is 1% of the American population? Assuming only 50% of Americans ever come down with COVID 19, using your data, how many deaths would that be? How many Americans have died in combat? How many from terrorism?

Thanks for referencing that, I was not aware of it. What follows is my initial reaction after reading it. Like most initial reactions, I can see where I use the declaration to confirm positions I already hold while pushing back against points that contradict my current positions. I would need more than just the declarations to change my mind as most of my positions are based on examining evidence. Experts can be wrong, the why behind their opinions means more to me than the opinion itself. Of course, sometimes I don't have time, the knowledge and/or care enough about an issue, so I will accept expert opinions at face value. For me, SARS COV 2 is not one of those times.

The Great Barrington Declaration makes several valid points, it also glosses over several complexities. As just two examples. I'm someone who would be considered low risk, however, my work frequently puts me in contact with high risk individuals, should I completely go about my life as normal? Another complication, we don't understand how immunity works with this virus very well and there is evidence (though inconclusive) that lasting immunity may not be created. Even in diseases where lasting immunity is created herd immunity does not get high enough to stop the spread (at least the examples I'm aware of) in the abscess of vaccination.

That said, the Declaration is absolutely correct about the cost of lockdowns. Measures should be planed for sustainability, some spread must be accepted, and some people will die as a result. As a country, and the individual systems within it, the time bought with lockdowns has not been used as well as it should have been and sustainable interventions have suffered as a result.

The conversations that need to be had are hard. It reminds me of end of life discussions where "do everything" is wrong, but "just euthanize them" is also wrong. We don't know enough to get the answers perfect, but we know enough to do better than the current debate within this country.

The ideas in the declaration, to me, do not represent an end point, rather they are a compass bearing to be included in the complex task of navigation.

 

[KurtR]

Goin' solo again this year. Don't plan on being close to ANYONE for 2 weeks. LOL

My worst fear right now is that I get it between now and when I leave.

BTW, (dons flameproof suit...) for all the macho "not skeert" folks, It's one thing to not care if you get sick. Nobody really cares if you do. It's something else entirely if you don't care if you get others sick.

My 99 year old Purple Heart earning b52 flying grandpa in law put it to me this way when I asked him how he felt about this whole thing(on the phone). He said it is his responsibility and his alone to keep him self safe. He was sad seeing all the rights that a lot of his friends had died for being squashed. He never thought he would see an America so afraid of dieing they would just quit living. Everyone can be personally responsible for them selves. If you want to wear a mask do it. If you don’t you should also have that right in public. Business owners can make a decision on how to run their business and then consumers can then decide but the govt should have no say what so ever. We can’t legislate safe living or we loose what the USA is.

 

[Newtosavage]

My 99 year old Purple Heart earning b52 flying grandpa in law put it to me this way when I asked him how he felt about this whole thing(on the phone). He said it is his responsibility and his alone to keep him self safe. He was sad seeing all the rights that a lot of his friends had died for being squashed. He never thought he would see an America so afraid of dieing they would just quit living. Everyone can be personally responsible for them selves. If you want to wear a mask do it. If you don’t you should also have that right in public. Business owners can make a decision on how to run their business and then consumers can then decide but the govt should have no say what so ever. We can’t legislate safe living or we loose what the USA is.

The "gubment" passes laws every single day that regulates how we live. Try driving on the wrong side of the road for a few miles and see how that turns out for you and whichever unfortunate family you meet head-on.

Elected officials first job is to keep Americans safe. Part of that job is passing common sense laws and rules for people to follow (like which side of the road to drive on).

Like I said, I'm heading to the mountains solo, and this is a great year to hunt that way.

Ya'll be safe out there.

 

[Patton]

Couldn't imagine being so scared of getting the cold that I'd skip a hunting trip or vacation, or let my gf/wife convince me otherwise. Sounds like a stressful way to live life..

 

[KurtR]

The "gubment" passes laws every single day that regulates how we live. Try driving on the wrong side of the road for a few miles and see how that turns out for you and whichever unfortunate family you meet head-on.

Elected officials first job is to keep Americans safe. Part of that job is passing common sense laws and rules for people to follow (like which side of the road to drive on).

Like I said, I'm heading to the mountains solo, and this is a great year to hunt that way.

Ya'll be safe out there.

Your key word there is common sense.......Making a comparison of wearing a mask and driving on the wrong side of the road is asinine at best. Its a proven fact that crashing can kill you. Elected officials first job is to do what the people who elected them want done under what is allowed in the constitution.

 

[gelton]

If it with you for oerputa

herpes has a high survival rate as well.

Right, and what keeps you safe from herpes? Personal responsibility. If you want to hide from a germ under a lockdown or wear a mask in the backcountry, more power to you...just don't ask others to do the same.

 

[gelton]

You are misunderstanding my premise. My statement that you quoted needs to be taken in the context of the post it was replying to, and quoted, originally. Added to that is the fact that I have outlined a position on lockdowns already in a post that came after the one you are quoting. I see nothing to clarify based on your post, so I will refer you back to my earlier posts rather than wasting everyone's time by restating what I have already written.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I feel like it requires a level of willful selectivity to read what I have written as even remotely advocating lockdowns as a cure, especially given my post timestamped for 10:09 AM today (quoted below). Perhaps I am also wrong about this, but I consider the use of the term 'bro' to be intentionally insulting which further inclines me to believe you are willfully twisting what I have said and stripping it of context. Add the sneer quotes around science and cure combined with linking something I quoted verbatim with not constructive comment as to how it altered what I said; all leaves me with the impression that your are not actually interested in a discussion.

What is 1% of the American population? Assuming only 50% of Americans ever come down with COVID 19, using your data, how many deaths would that be? How many Americans have died in combat? How many from terrorism?

There is a ton of conjecture in this thread but hardly any facts. Do you have any factual figures that you are basing your position on?

For instance, the death rate vs population is much higher in those states that had more severe lockdowns than others (See TX vs NY).



Japan has the oldest population in Asia, they didn't lockdown, there are no masks mandates and they had one of the lowest death rates in Asia 13 per 1 million infections.



Sweden didn't have any lockdowns at all and fared just as well if not better than other European countries who had severe lockdowns.



And then theres this from the University of Edinburg:



Herd immunity is another point. Have you ever considered that the same people claiming there is no such thing as herd immunity are the same ones pushing for lockdowns until there is a vaccine? Do you see the circular argument there? If herd immunity which comes from light exposure to the actual virus does not exist, then there is no way a vaccine (which is a simulation of the actual virus) will ever work either.

So if doing what you are promoting makes you feel good, then by all means, do it...just don't ask others to do the same unless there is indeed solid factual evidence that it works. The issue is, there is plenty of evidence that points in the other direction.

 

[brsnow]

Right, and what keeps you safe from herpes? Personal responsibility. If you want to hide from a germ under a lockdown or wear a mask in the backcountry, more power to you...just don't ask others to do the same.

You also need to rely on your spouse as well, so personal responsibility will only go so far. The main point was you don’t die from herpes but the it has lingering effects that last a lifetime. Covid seems to as well for many who have survived. Always a personal responsibility to do the right thing.

 

[Drenalin]

Wait, are we recreating the Kung Flu thread?

 

[KHNC]

As a NM resident who’s been in southern CO and commuting back and forth since the beginning of September, I’d have to give you the big middle finger and an FU on that one..........

Ok, How do you feel about NM governors latest freak out and restrictions? She has lost her damn mind evidently.

 

[KHNC]

You must have really got around to be such an expert! you think maybe you should have spent more time hunting instead of doing a comprehensive statewide study of what "all" NM's think? I hope you studied elk hunting a little better and was successful.
FYI we have some awesome squirrel hunting.........

Of all the states i traveled thru on my way, New Mexico was by FAR the worst for panic mode. I saw enough to form a solid opinion. But , I can clearly see its your governess's fault. Especially with the new restrictions she released on yall today.

 

[gelton]

The "gubment" passes laws every single day that regulates how we live. Try driving on the wrong side of the road for a few miles and see how that turns out for you and whichever unfortunate family you meet head-on.

Elected officials first job is to keep Americans safe. Part of that job is passing common sense laws and rules for people to follow (like which side of the road to drive on).

Like I said, I'm heading to the mountains solo, and this is a great year to hunt that way.

Ya'll be safe out there.

There is a big difference between laws and edicts.

Michigan Supreme Court rules against governor again, ending Covid-19 executive orders

The Michigan Supreme Court on Monday denied Gov. Gretchen Whitmer's request to delay the effect of an opinion that ruled her executive orders on the coronavirus pandemic are unconstitutional.

www.cnn.com

 

[5MilesBack]

Elected officials first job is to keep Americans safe.

I know that is the popular understanding from all the sheep in America, but don't leave out the larger picture of their incorrect assumptions as well.......that it's not just their job to "keep us safe", but it's also their job "to provide and take care of us all too". That's one of the biggest (if not the biggest) problems with America these days.