Covid in the Colorado Backcountry

[Marbles]

There is a ton of conjecture in this thread but hardly any facts. Do you have any factual figures that you are basing your position on?

For instance, the death rate vs population is much higher in those states that had more severe lockdowns than others (See TX vs NY).

View attachment 223980

Japan has the oldest population in Asia, they didn't lockdown, there are no masks mandates and they had one of the lowest death rates in Asia 13 per 1 million infections.

View attachment 223981

Sweden didn't have any lockdowns at all and fared just as well if not better than other European countries who had severe lockdowns.

View attachment 223984

And then theres this from the University of Edinburg:

View attachment 223985

Herd immunity is another point. Have you ever considered that the same people claiming there is no such thing as herd immunity are the same ones pushing for lockdowns until there is a vaccine? Do you see the circular argument there? If herd immunity which comes from light exposure to the actual virus does not exist, then there is no way a vaccine (which is a simulation of the actual virus) will ever work either.

So if doing what you are promoting makes you feel good, then by all means, do it...just don't ask others to do the same unless there is indeed solid factual evidence that it works. The issue is, there is plenty of evidence that points in the other direction.

Continuing to joust with windmills, and loose to them I see.

The inaccuracies in how you understand things is on par with flat earthers, defund the police, and contrail conspiracies. Normally I would discuss them, but seeing as you continue to trying to force me into a position I have repeatedly stated I don't hold I will leave you to the windmills.

 

[gelton]

Continuing to joust with windmills, and loose to them I see.

The inaccuracies in how you understand things is on par with flat earthers, defund the police, and contrail conspiracies. Normally I would discuss them, but seeing as you continue to trying to force me into a position I have repeatedly stated I don't hold I will leave you to the windmills.

Did you major in philosophy? When presented with the Barrington Declaration, you first, you claim that "I can see where I use the declaration to confirm positions I already hold while pushing back against points that contradict my current positions. I would need more than just the declarations to change my mind as most of my positions are based on examining evidence."

Then when presented with specific evidence that is contrary to your current position, you claim that wasn't your position at all and in the same breath mention a windmill argument chastising (not me but the evidence presented) as on par with flat earthers. It's certainly no way to win a debate and says alot about the person making the argument.

 

[gelton]

Continuing to joust with windmills, and loose to them I see.

The inaccuracies in how you understand things is on par with flat earthers, defund the police, and contrail conspiracies. Normally I would discuss them, but seeing as you continue to trying to force me into a position I have repeatedly stated I don't hold I will leave you to the windmills.

And speaking of inaccuracies, loose windmills are a danger to be around.

Lose - Verb - to fail to win, gain, or obtain

Loose - Adjective - not rigidly fastened or securely attached

 

[5MilesBack]

And speaking of inaccuracies, loose windmills are a danger to be around.

Like the ones that nutjob artist Christo had placed on a hillside.

 

[MattB]

There is a ton of conjecture in this thread but hardly any facts. Do you have any factual figures that you are basing your position on?

For instance, the death rate vs population is much higher in those states that had more severe lockdowns than others (See TX vs NY).

View attachment 223980

This is too funny. You respond with a comment about inserting facts to overcome conjecture with projections from May on future deaths (not to mention using a chart that projects actual deaths to support your comment about death rates), when in fact Texas has the 2nd highest COVID death total by state behind New York. New York's actual deaths through August were less than projected whereas Texas's were ~5x more than projected.

But thanks for setting us all straight on that.

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

 

[gelton]

This is too funny. You respond with a comment about inserting facts to overcome conjecture with projections from May on future deaths (not to mention using a chart that projects actual deaths to support your comment about death rates), when in fact Texas has the 2nd highest COVID death total by state behind New York. New York's actual deaths through August were less than projected whereas Texas's were ~5x more than projected.

But thanks for setting us all straight on that.

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Texas is also one of the most populated states in the country. When looking at deaths vs population Texas isnt even in the top 15 but good try.

Here are the results from the website you cited when sorted by deaths per 1 M population. See a trend? Apology accepted.

 

[MattB]

Texas is also one of the most populated states in the country. When looking at deaths vs population Texas isnt even in the top 15 but good try.

Here are the results from the website you cited when sorted by deaths per 1 M population. See a trend? Apology accepted.

View attachment 224024

Trend? Yes - the list is lead by states that were hit early by COVID (NY/NJ/MA/CT/RI) and followed by a number of states that I do not believe locked down (LA/MS/AZ/FL/GA/SC). Il and MI are states that were nor hit early, I believe did lock down and had high death rates.

TX's death rate (593/1MM) is a good bit higher than CA's (422/1MM) which locked down the earliest and has the greatest population, so the data does not seem to support your contention that there is a correlation between the degree of lockdown and death rate.

 

[gelton]

Trend? Yes - the list is lead by states that were hit early by COVID (NY/NJ/MA/CT/RI) and followed by a number of states that I do not believe locked down (LA/MS/AZ/FL/GA/SC). Il and MI are states that were nor hit early, I believe did lock down and had high death rates.

TX's death rate (593/1MM) is a good bit higher than CA's (422/1MM) which locked down the earliest and has the greatest population, so the data does not seem to support your contention that there is a correlation between the degree of lockdown and death rate.

Right, so, in this particular chart, there is no correlating data between states that had strict lockdowns vs states that did not, I will give you that. But doesn't it also prove that there is no data to support the assumption that lockdowns worked? Your statement actually proves the overall premise.

Also, your assumption that LA/MS/AZ/FL/GA did not lockdown is inaccurate, all of those states issued lockdowns except that all of them except Lousiana (March) were later (like late April).

 

[Newtosavage]

Your key word there is common sense.......Making a comparison of wearing a mask and driving on the wrong side of the road is asinine at best. Its a proven fact that crashing can kill you. Elected officials first job is to do what the people who elected them want done under what is allowed in the constitution.

It's a proven fact that Covid has killed 200K+ Americans and will kill another 200K before it's all said and done, making it 10x more deadly than automobiles.

But I suppose that's none of my business...

 

[KurtR]

It's a proven fact that Covid has killed 200K+ Americans and will kill another 200K before it's all said and done, making it 10x more deadly than automobiles.

But I suppose that's none of my business...

it has been reported.....Did they die FROM covid or did it accelerate the inevitable because of other reasons? 300k die each year from obesity but that doesnt matter........

 

[Newtosavage]

it has been reported.....Did they die FROM covid or did it accelerate the inevitable because of other reasons? 300k die each year from obesity but that doesnt matter........

You're welcome to believe whatever conspiracy you want. I don't tally the data.

But your point is a distraction from the argument.

 

[KurtR]

You're welcome to believe whatever conspiracy you want. I don't tally the data.

But your point is a distraction from the argument.

Predictable........

 

[ewade07]

Wait, are we recreating the Kung Flu thread?

God I hope so!

 

[Newtosavage]

Predictable........

I see we agree on something.

 

[Ratbeetle]

My 99 year old Purple Heart earning b52 flying grandpa in law put it to me this way when I asked him how he felt about this whole thing(on the phone). He said it is his responsibility and his alone to keep him self safe. He was sad seeing all the rights that a lot of his friends had died for being squashed. He never thought he would see an America so afraid of dieing they would just quit living. Everyone can be personally responsible for them selves. If you want to wear a mask do it. If you don’t you should also have that right in public. Business owners can make a decision on how to run their business and then consumers can then decide but the govt should have no say what so ever. We can’t legislate safe living or we loose what the USA is.

No way. We need to continue to keep in place feel-good, do-nothing restrictions on individuals and small business so obese 70 year olds can ride their motorized scooters through the aisles of the jimbos liquor emporium to buy those 4 weekly handles of old crowe without fear that their health is being endangered. How dare you talk of personal responsibility.

 

[KHNC]

It's a proven fact that Covid has killed 200K+ Americans and will kill another 200K before it's all said and done, making it 10x more deadly than automobiles.

But I suppose that's none of my business...

Will it be more deadly than the common flu? Or just automobiles?

 

[Newtosavage]

Will it be more deadly than the common flu? Or just automobiles?

If you are asking that question, no response I would provide would satisfy you.

Have a great hunting season.

 

[cnelk]

On a positive note:

No one has died of old age since February

 

[KHNC]

If you are asking that question, no response I would provide would satisfy you.

Have a great hunting season.

Right, you know its not even close. Comparing to auto deaths is the best anyone came come up with. Most every other type of death is likely higher than covid. Even the suicide rate approaches 22.8 per 100k in the US.

 

[KHNC]

On a positive note:

No one has died of old age since February

Hospitals report fewer heart attacks and strokes amid COVID-19

In some ways, the message to stay home during the COVID-19 pandemic may have worked a little too well.

medicalxpress.com

Yep, interesting that Heart disease death rate dropped suddenly this year.