Commercial Pilot?

[Tahoe1305]

I’ve been following this and there is a lot of good feedback and enough interest to share a little to those who don’t think there is a chance for them to fly. I’m a random guy on the internet giving unsolicited advice, copy. If you have questions on the process reach out and I’ll help where I can.

I am currently an AF pilot, early in the career so there are dudes on the forum who speak to longer term issues. I started in the army guard enlisted. Made some stellar decisions that put me on the shit list, for arrested for a criminal mischief, burgarly, and public intox. Long story short, I was drunk, did dumb things, everything but the public intox got dropped. I also had a minor consumption prior(slow learner). As I matured and stayed enlisted I ended up finishing college. Got a wild idea to apply to OTS to be a USAF pilot, worst they could say was no. At the time they were hiring a lot of people and I got lucky. Is it a grind, yes. Was it all worth it, also yes. All of this to say, if you want it. Apply, put in the work, and hope for the best. Regardless of what you think is in your way the biggest hurdle is probably you. Various routes to achieve the same end goal. If you want to know more, shoot me a message.

That’s a pretty cool story. Thanks for sharing. Glad you turned the corner. Shoot me a PM. Curious where you are and what you are flying. It’s a good life, I have no regrets.

 

[f16jack]

I’ve been following this and there is a lot of good feedback and enough interest to share a little to those who don’t think there is a chance for them to fly. I’m a random guy on the internet giving unsolicited advice, copy. If you have questions on the process reach out and I’ll help where I can.

I am currently an AF pilot, early in the career so there are dudes on the forum who speak to longer term issues. I started in the army guard enlisted. Made some stellar decisions that put me on the shit list, for arrested for a criminal mischief, burgarly, and public intox. Long story short, I was drunk, did dumb things, everything but the public intox got dropped. I also had a minor consumption prior(slow learner). As I matured and stayed enlisted I ended up finishing college. Got a wild idea to apply to OTS to be a USAF pilot, worst they could say was no. At the time they were hiring a lot of people and I got lucky. Is it a grind, yes. Was it all worth it, also yes. All of this to say, if you want it. Apply, put in the work, and hope for the best. Regardless of what you think is in your way the biggest hurdle is probably you. Various routes to achieve the same end goal. If you want to know more, shoot me a message.

Congrats on your success. Good that you gained focus.

I'd emphasize the "put in the work" part. When I showed up at USAF pilot training everyone wanted to be a fighter pilot, everyone thought they had the right stuff.

Military flying training is a process of discovery.

To be successful you need:
1. Natural ability - you can't be a ham fist
2. Intelligence - you have to have the ability to learn what they teach. Systems, rules, tactics, weather, threat systems, etc...
3. Desire - this is often the hardest for folks to get. You need to want it more than the other guy, more than you thought possible. This is where the "put in the work" comes in. You need to be focused and understand what is at stake.

As a member of pilot selection boards we'd tip the pilot slot to the individual who we thought was most motivated (in addition to high scores on the qualifying tests).

As an AF instructor we'd often give an extra sortie or so to someone who was really trying hard, vs. someone who didn't seem to care.

As far as the discovery, in AF pilot training folks discover if they have what it takes. We had students with civilian backgrounds with over 1000 Learjet hours who washed out of training. They came in with some experience, but plateaued short of what was required.

 

[kcruz]

It's depends entirely on if you're seasonal or year round. The key is to have work all year and not just June-September. Real small stuff is almost entirely seasonal.

No one flies small airplanes commercial for hunting benefits, because flying hunters is a big way you're making your money. So you're busy as hell all hunting season flying and not hunting. I guess after you retire you'll know ALL the spots.
Also, while I do really enjoy skiing and snowmachines, summer is what is most amazing about Alaska. If you're a small airplane pilot you will be working hardest all summer with no time to enjoy it for yourself.

Flying small airplanes in Alaska is my favorite thing to do. I very much recommend against doing it for a career.

I spent a lot of time looking into this over the weekend it seems like making it as a pilot in Alaska is getting increasingly hard. It seems like more and more people are moving out there and becoming pilots for outfitters. Also, a lot of residents have planes or have access to one. Definitely more research needed on my part before I just jump into anything.

I am sure flying for a living takes some of the enjoyment out of it, but I have to think its still better than being stuck in an office for 10 hours a day. Currently I am working as an accountant and I can not express how much I hate sitting at a desk just working on spreadsheets all day. I'm only 6 years into my career and tired of it so a change should probably happen sooner rather than later.

 

[william schmaltz]

I can only speak to what my brother and best bud have told me. My brother did the UND commercial pilot thing. He got his CFI right out of the gate and then did a work study through the university as a CFI for new students. He was able to rack up a bunch of hours all while getting paid for it and going to school. He was well over 500 hours by graduation day. It was a very sweet deal. He moved to AK the day after graduation and had a pile of opportunities. Became a captain after a year flying 1900s for a local regional airline. There is a pile of opportunity if you want to fly small regional stuff and have 500 hours. My brother was told 1500 hours minimum with high performance planes before anyone would take him on to fly beavers (at least for the handful of good operations he talked to). He plans to start working for an outfitter as a bush pilot in the next year or two. He loves flying planes so he has no intention or desire to go to a major airline where he just sits in a cockpit (for now anyways). I would personally him rather go to the airlines and we buy a plane together and hunt all year!

My best bud is running his own 135 operation. Flew for a regional airline for over a decade and then decided to do his own thing. Sometimes I'm not sure how he makes money. Insurance just on the planes goes up $20-30k a year. Fuel has doubled. Engines hit their hours every couple years and rebuilds are running 6 figures. It's crazy. He has 3 planes and 2 of them are going essentially nonstop from late May to the end of September. And experienced pilots that are willing to work 7 days a week for 4-5 months straight are rightfully getting top dollar. It does suck not getting to hunt with him in the early fall anymore and he will admit that. But he still does a moose hunt in early October as well as a few other hunts and has enough connections in the airline world in AK that he could find a good 14 day pilot to fill in so he could sheep hunt if he wants. A lot of the smaller operations that we all know for hunting are doing mail trips and servicing cabins, miners, etc. for a good amount of the year.

 

[kylegreulich]

I figure I am due to chime in here as I am currently finishing up the last of my "pre-airline" ratings while starting to time build as an instructor. I did one of the (hated by many older pilots) pilot mills to knock out my ratings as quick as I could as I am a bit older than many people getting into aviation at 32. It's expensive, and I do of course have worries about down turns in the economy and being saddled with some debt I might struggle to pay off quickly. Doing your ratings quickly is a full time commitment that takes a lot of effort. There are definitely better options in terms of a true aviation education, but these mills do have it down to a science in terms of churning you out. What it comes down to is whether that risk is worth it to you. For me, I couldn't stand my job anymore, tried a couple new ones and couldn't stand them either, so it's a risk I was willing to take. I don't think air travel or freight is going anywhere anytime soon, and there will be a plethora of mandatory retirements in the future, so for me it was now or never.

Also, regional pay is much better now than it ever was. Most are starting at $75k if not more. Certainly not killing it but for most people a decent wage. Do your due diligence and make sure you're willing to invest a ton of time and money.

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

First year at a certain regional is 90k a year. They slowed hiring across most regionals due to lack of captains to fly with them. It’s risky but some will get lucky.

 

[Tahoe1305]

This is my favorite thread ever so I’m going to keep it going. (Hunting and flying…best combo ever).

Something else came up today in regards to thoughts on flying (for those who are interested but haven’t yet).

It isn’t for everyone. It can be hard. Some will get sick and not figure that out. Some aren’t coordinated enough.

I flew with a young kid today on his third ride (he was maybe 21). He was really struggling to land and his expectations for himself were much higher than his capability. The mental aspect of that he really couldn’t figure out. I think for some, flying is the first actual challenging thing they do. And they are humbled by that (or at least will be at some point).

For many it’s the first time you are combining hand/eye coordination skill with a high level of basic knowledge. And then compress the timeline(miles per minute not hour) and up the stress (you may actually die if you fail) and some people crumble.

I was bummed with this kid today and how he reacted to his struggles, but it was good it sparked the thought.

Fwiw like anything it gets easier and you can still get humbled often.

 

[sconnieVLP]

This is my favorite thread ever so I’m going to keep it going. (Hunting and flying…best combo ever).

Something else came up today in regards to thoughts on flying (for those who are interested but haven’t yet).

It isn’t for everyone. It can be hard. Some will get sick and not figure that out. Some aren’t coordinated enough.

I flew with a young kid today on his third ride (he was maybe 21). He was really struggling to land and his expectations for himself were much higher than his capability. The mental aspect of that he really couldn’t figure out. I think for some, flying is the first actual challenging thing they do. And they are humbled by that (or at least will be at some point).

For many it’s the first time you are combining hand/eye coordination skill with a high level of basic knowledge. And then compress the timeline(miles per minute not hour) and up the stress (you may actually die if you fail) and some people crumble.

I was bummed with this kid today and how he reacted to his struggles, but it was good it sparked the thought.

Fwiw like anything it gets easier and you can still get humbled often.

“Some will get sick”…that brought back some memories.

My UPT experience consisted of more hours in the Barany chair than in the cockpit, and was truly one of the most miserable stretches of time in my life. This was 2012-2013 when the VSP/RIF of that era was happening, and people who quit were getting separated. So I didn’t quit, and just repeated the process of throwing up every day and getting spun in the chair. Think I lost 30lbs or so.

Eventually I got the boot from training, and I remember a very weird sense of relief when the Sq/CC told me that. Looking back ten years later I think it all worked out the way it was supposed to - I ended up in a job on the other end of the radio and it has worked out well.

 

[f16jack]

“Some will get sick”…that brought back some memories.

My UPT experience consisted of more hours in the Barany chair than in the cockpit, and was truly one of the most miserable stretches of time in my life. This was 2012-2013 when the VSP/RIF of that era was happening, and people who quit were getting separated. So I didn’t quit, and just repeated the process of throwing up every day and getting spun in the chair. Think I lost 30lbs or so.

Eventually I got the boot from training, and I remember a very weird sense of relief when the Sq/CC told me that. Looking back ten years later I think it all worked out the way it was supposed to - I ended up in a job on the other end of the radio and it has worked out well.

We called that the Vista Vertigon. I hurled several times on the long, hot descent back to base in the Arizona summer. But not enough times to go to the chair. Some of my buddies did and it sucked for them.

 

[z987k]

This is my favorite thread ever so I’m going to keep it going. (Hunting and flying…best combo ever).

Something else came up today in regards to thoughts on flying (for those who are interested but haven’t yet).

It isn’t for everyone. It can be hard. Some will get sick and not figure that out. Some aren’t coordinated enough.

I flew with a young kid today on his third ride (he was maybe 21). He was really struggling to land and his expectations for himself were much higher than his capability. The mental aspect of that he really couldn’t figure out. I think for some, flying is the first actual challenging thing they do. And they are humbled by that (or at least will be at some point).

For many it’s the first time you are combining hand/eye coordination skill with a high level of basic knowledge. And then compress the timeline(miles per minute not hour) and up the stress (you may actually die if you fail) and some people crumble.

I was bummed with this kid today and how he reacted to his struggles, but it was good it sparked the thought.

Fwiw like anything it gets easier and you can still get humbled often.

Something you have to learn pretty early on is if you can't check the ego before you even leave the house, you'll be a terrible pilot. And it'll eventually kill you.
Everyone gets humbled over and over and over. And it doesn't stop, you don't stop learning until the day you hang it all up.

 

[kylegreulich]

This is my favorite thread ever so I’m going to keep it going. (Hunting and flying…best combo ever).

Something else came up today in regards to thoughts on flying (for those who are interested but haven’t yet).

It isn’t for everyone. It can be hard. Some will get sick and not figure that out. Some aren’t coordinated enough.

I flew with a young kid today on his third ride (he was maybe 21). He was really struggling to land and his expectations for himself were much higher than his capability. The mental aspect of that he really couldn’t figure out. I think for some, flying is the first actual challenging thing they do. And they are humbled by that (or at least will be at some point).

For many it’s the first time you are combining hand/eye coordination skill with a high level of basic knowledge. And then compress the timeline(miles per minute not hour) and up the stress (you may actually die if you fail) and some people crumble.

I was bummed with this kid today and how he reacted to his struggles, but it was good it sparked the thought.

Fwiw like anything it gets easier and you can still get humbled often.

It's funny, I was this kid on my first TOL flight. In no way shape or form am I trying to make myself a super hero, but things that require hand/eye/foot coordination come pretty natural to me. After my first flight working on landings I was an absolute disaster, I felt i should've been putting down greasers on day 1 and was all worried about my new career choice. My instructor kept telling me over and over that the flight was good and I have no idea what some of these other flights look like, but I wasn't having any of it. I started instructing last week and this is one of the big lessons I have brought along with me as I get going.

 

[Tahoe1305]

It's funny, I was this kid on my first TOL flight. In no way shape or form am I trying to make myself a super hero, but things that require hand/eye/foot coordination come pretty natural to me. After my first flight working on landings I was an absolute disaster, I felt i should've been putting down greasers on day 1 and was all worried about my new career choice. My instructor kept telling me over and over that the flight was good and I have no idea what some of these other flights look like, but I wasn't having any of it. I started instructing last week and this is one of the big lessons I have brought along with me as I get going.

I think even the funnier thing is….years later after you are experienced and you just have an off day and your landings all of a sudden suck.

Or you miss a critical procedure on an instrument approach or forget something about airspace and either a) almost get violated or b) realize in actual weather you would have hit a mountain.

Flying is humbling.

 

[f16jack]

Something you have to learn pretty early on is if you can't check the ego before you even leave the house, you'll be a terrible pilot. And it'll eventually kill you.
Everyone gets humbled over and over and over. And it doesn't stop, you don't stop learning until the day you hang it all up.

A couple of quotes from over the years:

"There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots. There are no old, bold pilots."

and, from an old major to me as a new F-16 student year ago, after a night landing gear emergency:

"Jack, right now you have a bag of luck. Your experience bag is empty. As you go through your career you will empty your luck back into your experience bag, until your luck is used up, and now you will use your experience to get you through."
-What he was saying is that I was lucky that night.