Commercial Pilot?

[salo225]

I know way more divorced guys then married ones in this career. If you are single though, well then the world awaits....

To be fair that sounds more and more common regardless of the career. Marriage sounded all great and grand, but 7+ years later and it just sucks. Or so I’ve heard…

 

[SWOHTR]

Watching and reading. This is interesting and something I've recently considered post-Navy. That said, Cougar's statement of "you'll get your circadian rhythm all jacked around" is not something to be taken lightly. I was 27 and diagnosed with sleep apnea in part due to that. Thanks Navy!

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

I fly for a major cargo company. I think the lifestyle is good for some, bad for many. Yes there is great money to be made, but it will take years to get there. In addition, you have to really have a passion for flying if this is something you choose to do and want to make it to the majors. The low starting pay, bad hours, financial investment to get going, and stress really take a lot of fun out of it so you better enjoy flying.

A couple of things to consider: First, heath. Before spending a dime on flight training, I would recommend scheduling a flight physical with an FAA certified doctor and get a First Class medical completed. You will need a First Class to fly for any Part 121 air carrier (read regional or major airline). If you can't get a First Class or are not able to get waivers to get the First Class then your trip is over before it starts. Keeping this medical current is mandatory until you retire at 65. Trust me, this is not something that everyone will be able to do even once they get to the airlines. If you lose your medical, you are out of a job. Period.
Second, family. Everyone's circumstances are different, and yes you can make a good living providing for your family doing this; however, you will be gone ALOT. Lastly, many marriages will not survive this career. There is even an acronym for it, called AIDS, or Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome. I know way more divorced guys then married ones in this career. If you are single though, well then the world awaits....

I ran into two of you. One from your company that I’m guessing based on your profile name and one from the other cargo company in the middle of the backcountry in Idaho on a month long hunt the country trip in 2015. I was confused as hell at what I wanted to be growing up and now I’m sitting left seat at a regional because of how much hunting they got to do and randomly running into them in the woods. It’s a crazy profession and the medical is stressful with where we take ourselves hunting but damn it’s been a wild ride. Have to have a very very strong woman on your side or none at all. I’ve been lucky. These last few months have really changed the regional pay structure. You box bastards changed my life forever.

 

[Slugz]

Nothing to add but my 13 y/o seems very committed to this pathway. Looking forward to responses.

Get him in the military. Best way to do it with minimal to no bills

 

[helipilot]

Im a commercial helicopter pilot. Its a little different on the rotor side but also a lot of the same. Its not an easy job to get into like some have said. Sure the money and schedule can be great. But to get too that point is a pure grind of shit pay, gone a long time and really crappy jobs. Ive been flying for almost 19 years and just within the last few years feel like I'm at a place pay and schedule wise thats been worth it. My brother in law is a airplane pilot. He flew for a regional for awhile and now flys for UPS. He is pretty happy and despised being an airline pilot. With my job I get to see some of the coolest places in the country, have a decent schedule and make a very comfortable wage. Its not for everyone and takes a lot of hard work to get to where its worth it. But I havent regretted my career. Even the shitty jobs and days are pretty cool compared to a normal 9-5 office job.

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

Im a commercial helicopter pilot. Its a little different on the rotor side but also a lot of the same. Its not an easy job to get into like some have said. Sure the money and schedule can be great. But to get too that point is a pure grind of shit pay, gone a long time and really crappy jobs. Ive been flying for almost 19 years and just within the last few years feel like I'm at a place pay and schedule wise thats been worth it. My brother in law is a airplane pilot. He flew for a regional for awhile and now flys for UPS. He is pretty happy and despised being an airline pilot. With my job I get to see some of the coolest places in the country, have a decent schedule and make a very comfortable wage. Its not for everyone and takes a lot of hard work to get to where its worth it. But I havent regretted my career. Even the shitty jobs and days are pretty cool compared to a normal 9-5 office job.

Exactly this. Anytime I think damn today sucks, I think back to landscaping or running a chainsaw 10 hours a day in the rain. Admittedly I’ve been incredibly lucky with timing and I try to appreciate that fact every day. My hunting future is bright due to the many seasons I’ve missed during training and crappy schedules being junior.

 

[commandoNate]

My sister is a commercial pilot, and an Air Force pilot. An AFA grad and an officer. (she is AF reserve now, after 15 years active duty) 300K/year maybe after you've been doing it for a couple decades and have seniority but I wouldn't count on it out of the gate. Get ready for years and years of commuter flights from Omaha to Lubbock and the like. Nobody starts out as a captain at Delta flying the good routes from NYC to Europe. Gotta put in your time.

 

[OXN939]

Get him in the military. Best way to do it with minimal to no bills

This is a common school of thought, but there are a few things to consider. 1, military pilots incur contractual obligations that are up to a decade, during which they make much less than many of their civilian counterparts. 2, the physical examination process to become a military pilot is MUCH more strenuous than any FAA physical and results in a lot of DQs. 3, for the vast majority of applicants, there is no guarantee they'll actually ever get a pilot billet until they've already "signed on..." so statistically, the majority of military pilot aspirants end up doing other jobs.

Not to say that it's not a good idea- there are certainly some very significant drawbacks to going through the civilian side, namely the cost and time necessary to get through your ratings and build the requisite 1500 hours. Just trying to add another dose of reality to the thread, as the sooner that comes in the world of aviation, the better...

 

[Slugz]

This is a common school of thought, but there are a few things to consider. 1, military pilots incur contractual obligations that are up to a decade, during which they make much less than many of their civilian counterparts. 2, the physical examination process to become a military pilot is MUCH more strenuous than any FAA physical and results in a lot of DQs. 3, for the vast majority of applicants, there is no guarantee they'll actually ever get a pilot billet until they've already "signed on..." so statistically, the majority of military pilot aspirants end up doing other jobs.

Not to say that it's not a good idea- there are certainly some very significant drawbacks to going through the civilian side, namely the cost and time necessary to get through your ratings and build the requisite 1500 hours. Just trying to add another dose of reality to the thread, as the sooner that comes in the world of aviation, the better...

Very true. Thanks for adding that.

Take away is
1) Graduate first in all your classes
2) Then you always have first choice when the pipeline splits.
3).When you have your choice go multi engine big plane.

If you dont do the above you will drive a ship or be a supply officer or worse yet a helo pilot.

Joking joking on the last part

 

[sconnieVLP]

This is a common school of thought, but there are a few things to consider. 1, military pilots incur contractual obligations that are up to a decade, during which they make much less than many of their civilian counterparts. 2, the physical examination process to become a military pilot is MUCH more strenuous than any FAA physical and results in a lot of DQs. 3, for the vast majority of applicants, there is no guarantee they'll actually ever get a pilot billet until they've already "signed on..." so statistically, the majority of military pilot aspirants end up doing other jobs.

Not to say that it's not a good idea- there are certainly some very significant drawbacks to going through the civilian side, namely the cost and time necessary to get through your ratings and build the requisite 1500 hours. Just trying to add another dose of reality to the thread, as the sooner that comes in the world of aviation, the better...

Post-UPT commitment in the AF right now is 10 years, so figure ~12 years total time in service before you’re free to go.

On the pay side, I have to disagree with you regarding “making much less than civilian counterparts.” Sure, 2Lt pay isn’t great, but you’re also getting paid to be trained in how to fly an airplane, unlike their civilian counterparts. Plus the pay at the regionals is generally garbage. Base pay doesn’t look like much, but add in BAH, flight pay, and the other bennies and the package becomes pretty nice.

Regarding the actual potential to get a pilot slot (at least in the AF), if you can make the medical requirements (you are spot on re: DQs), work hard through undergrad to get decent grades and you aren’t a tool you have a pretty good shot at a pilot slot. Even if you don’t, you can still crush it at whatever job you end up getting and get picked up off the active duty rated board.

 

[Slugz]

Post-UPT commitment in the AF right now is 10 years, so figure ~12 years total time in service before you’re free to go.

On the pay side, I have to disagree with you regarding “making much less than civilian counterparts.” Sure, 2Lt pay isn’t great, but you’re also getting paid to be trained in how to fly an airplane, unlike their civilian counterparts. Plus the pay at the regionals is generally garbage. Base pay doesn’t look like much, but add in BAH, flight pay, and the other bennies and the package becomes pretty nice.

Regarding the actual potential to get a pilot slot (at least in the AF), if you can make the medical requirements (you are spot on re: DQs), work hard through undergrad to get decent grades and you aren’t a tool you have a pretty good shot at a pilot slot. Even if you don’t, you can still crush it at whatever job you end up getting and get picked up off the active duty rated board.

Ah yes.....I forgot.
BHA

For those unfamiliar. Basic Housing Allowance.
= they pay your mortgage on something, you own. Gotta love that.

 

[Tahoe1305]

I’ll add something more to the mil vs non mil training.

I’d argue the “flying” you will likely do in the military will make you a bit more well rounded Pilot overall. You’ll be forced to think for yourself, plan, take risks, fly missions that matter, etc.

When it’s all said and done if you learn from those experiences you’ll be better equipped for unique situations later in the flying career.

I think those experiences are worth a lot.

I also agree past the first few year the mil pay is pretty solid. Plus if you hang around long enough you can start with the airlines at 41 years of age with a $80k pension. Makes up for a few years of poor airline pay.

 

[Jon Boy]

Several of my best friends and my main hunting pard are pilots. I remember I was making more money than they were when I was 20 and moving lawns. It was a very long path to where they started making any real money. They all grinded it out for 10+ years with a shit ton of debt and all are now flying for majors. They make great money. One chose the hard path and is a captain at FedEx and flys as much as humanly possible to make the most possible money. Another is very high in senority first officer and chooses to fly as little as possible. An upgrade will require a move or a two leg commute that he just isn't interested in.
They both do well and i admire the paths they have chosen but I don't think I would of had the discipline to do it and wait that long to make any money.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Slugz]

Several of my best friends and my main hunting pard are pilots. I remember I was making more money than they were when I was 20 and moving lawns. It was a very long path to where they started making any real money. They all grinded it out for 10+ years with a shit ton of debt and all are now flying for majors. They make great money. One chose the hard path and is a captain at FedEx and flys as much as humanly possible to make the most possible money. Another is very high in senority first officer and chooses to fly as little as possible. An upgrade will require a move or a two leg commute that he just isn't interested in.
They both do well and i admire the paths they have chosen but I don't think I would of had the discipline to do it and wait that long to make any money.

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Yeah its tough IMO. Long road. When you see the dudes that are dragging down the cash they are intercontinental flying pretty minimal per month and rather old.

 

[Slugz]

I'm gonna reach out to a few friends and see what airlines like Qantas, Qatar, Emirates and Eithad pays. They generally speaking all fly long haul in the big planes.

 

[Gutshot007]

Family member just finished program at university of north dakota . I believe recieved a great education . Pretty expensive for flight time and building hours upon hours . I think its definitly a long haul career path , but hopefully worth it in the end

 

[OXN939]

Post-UPT commitment in the AF right now is 10 years, so figure ~12 years total time in service before you’re free to go.

On the pay side, I have to disagree with you regarding “making much less than civilian counterparts.” Sure, 2Lt pay isn’t great, but you’re also getting paid to be trained in how to fly an airplane, unlike their civilian counterparts. Plus the pay at the regionals is generally garbage. Base pay doesn’t look like much, but add in BAH, flight pay, and the other bennies and the package becomes pretty nice.

All very valid points! A few more observations that may be pertinent to aspiring types:

UPT slots are wildly competitive these days, with a TON of applicants for each billet. Like, often more competitive than getting into Ivy League schools. And, assuming you get selected and pass the most difficult physical testing matrix in the DOD, then you're essentially in professional purgatory waiting for them to get your pipeline started. This is the part that I imagine excludes probably 90% of the population just from a financial perspective- you're obligated to the Air Force but not getting paid anything, and have to figure out how to support yourself on interim gigs for up to three years in some cases. After all that comes the ~12 year commitment.

RJ guys are actually living in a different world than it has been historically. One of my former coworkers just cashed the Endeavor 100K check last week. The turns still aren't the best, but it's no longer "CFI plus" like it used to be. For anyone outside aviation, this is in reference to regional jet gigs, which are typically the first "real" job you get in professional aviation after making it through your ratings and getting your hours. This is a much more achievable scenario, but requires you to get all your civilian licenses and hours on your own which is... a process. To get a little taste of what this is like, give "14 CFR 61.109 requirements" a google.

Aviation is definitely a great career with lots of opportunity- just adding some information that might help set realistic expectations for anyone reading along!

 

[Whaledriver]

Thought I would chime in on this. Been at a major airline the past 16 years. Without bragging 300k is becoming average for pay. Most captains are making 400+ without trying. This is for an average of 14 days of work a month. It is a very good time to get in the industry. I have flown with several first officers that made it to a major in 5 total years. Incredible to think about. The military route there costs less but it will take you 13+ years. Civilian is more expensive but way quicker. Seniority equals pay and quality of life. The regionals are also a whole new world. First officers are making 100k out of the gate and captains 200k plus. How long is that sustainable? Who knows. I will say this is the best job in the world. I coach my son's baseball and basketball team full time during the week...then work the weekends. Can honestly say I have never dreaded going to work. Good luck out there.

 

[f16jack]

I've been flying for a major airline for 25 years now.

1. The comments above on the physical are spot on. Make sure you can get a Class I.
2. Two primary sources of pilots, military and commercial. Each route you have to pay your dues. Military you get dangerous training, deployments, remote assignments, wars, you get the idea. Commercial you get very expensive flight training (often at Universities like UND or Embry Riddle), followed by a period of building hours until you are competitive for hiring.
3. Normally the military guys go right into the majors. The civilian guys often have to build time in the regionals.
4. Comments above on schedule are accurate. Over my career normally I've been gone from home 15-18 days a month. If you choose to commute, add a day or so to each trip as you try to get to work or get home.
5. Seniority and moving up is critical. You get paid at your carrier based on the seat (left vs. right) and the airplane (larger vs. smaller). There is quick upward mobility right now as there are many retirements. At the majors there are 1st and 2nd year hires already getting Left Seat (Captain) awards. It took me about 15 years to get to that position.
6. Pay. As mentioned, the pay scales are readily available online. When you read "X dollars an hour," as mentioned above, just multiply this by 1000 for an annual salary. Pilots are paid by the minute when they fly. They are hourly wage earners, not salaried employees. Looking online at United's pay scales they range from aound $90/hr first year first officer pay to $284/hr for 12 year Captain's pay on the Airbus 350.
7. Retirement. Airlines have moved away from Defined Benefit to Defined Compensation (401k) retirement plans. Generally around the 16% rate of salary for company contribution. This is not a matching contribution, but rather an automatic part of pay in addition to your base pay.
8. Travel benefits for you and your family. They are great on your airline, and good on other airlines. Jumpseating (going in a cockpit) gives you, individually, all kinds of flexibility, especially if you are a commuter.
9. Divorce was mentioned above. Most of my pilot friends are not divorced at any greater rate than the general public. There was a time when the swashbuckling flight crew was out carousing and looking for fun at every layover. That has changed years ago. Now folks I work with are exercising, eating right, and generally very responsible in most of the aspects of their lives. I know no pilots who smoke.
10. For someone who wants time off, reduced price travel, and the ability to go hunt short notice anywhere in the world the job of a pilot is a great fit. Very few of my non-pilot friends have the flexibility that I have in my work schedule.

 

[TxxAgg]

I'm 10-15 yrs too late. I like reading this thread, though!