Combining Insulation Jackets

[Chuck44]

It regulates heat you body temp better. Sound counter intuitive.

John Barklow explains in better than I can in this podcast.

#16 Avery Adventures with John Barklow Big Game Product Mananger at Sitka Gear - Avery Adventures

“It’s Easy to be hard; It’s hard to be smart.” ~John Barklow John is the Big Game Product Manager at Sitka, and does he know his stuff! John educates us on how Sitka chooses their textiles and the rigorous product testing all products have to pass before being made available to the consumer...

averyadventures.com

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Great Podcast! To help those that don't have time to listen to the entire Podcast, the Windstopper layering position discussion starts about 43 min in.

He does a great job of explaining why wearing the Windstopper closest to the body helps with moisture transfer....but I did not really hear an explanation on what keeps the wind from "blowing" away heat from the outer (non-wind resistant) insulation layer.

 

[Napperm4]

Curious why you are using the 240 under the Kenai and not the other way around?

Exactly as the other guys said, I don’t ever compress my puffy insulation layers. Synthetic or down. It reduces the effectiveness. If you know Kuiu, the clothes don’t leave a lot of room for forgiveness. I have the 240 and the Kenai both in XXL. If I put the fleece over the kenai, things get very tight and hard to move.

Second is for breathability. The 240 is fleece lined inside and gridded out. Having the merino, then fleece, then puffy helps keep me drier as the layers are meant to be worn that way.

I only ever put a rain shell over a puffy when the weather is really bad.

 

[Napperm4]

Great Podcast! To help those that don't have time to listen to the entire Podcast, the Windstopper layering position discussion starts about 43 min in.

He does a great job of explaining why wearing the Windstopper closest to the body helps with moisture transfer....but I did not really hear an explanation on what keeps the wind from "blowing" away heat from the outer (non-wind resistant) insulation layer.

You’re really overthinking this. Hahaha however I have a background in engineering so

Technically, nothing stops the heat being trapped in the kenai insulation. The warming effect we get from down / synthetic insulation is because the air pockets between the fibres warm up. They are dead air space created by wind stopping fabrics and by the density of the insulating materials. The kenai will remain breathable by design and you are correct in thinking that there is nothing to stop the wind from disturbing the dead air pockets.

For this situation, you would layer a soft shell or hard shell overtop of the kenai. Take a look at the Axis jacket by Kuiu. The waterproof panels are windproof and the areas that don’t have the waterproof breathable membrane, use the same wind membrane as the 240. It’s also cut to fit over a kenai layer but size up one. The seams have been moved off the shoulder to the collar for the sleeves and it fits right around the shoulder.

The 240 is a bonded fabric, much like rain gear that has a waterproof membrane, the fleece has a wind proof membrane between the inner and outer layers. By layering it under a kenai it stops the wind from getting to your body. The fibers Of the fleece are now creating dead air. The wind membrane is keeping those pockets from being disturbed providing more warmth and holding it there.

The benefit of the 240 under the kenai is for ACTIVE hunting where I still want that breathability but need to keep the wind off. 2 layers is still more efficient and provides more insulation density than a single layer.

If I want to maximize the efficiency of my insulation like when I am stopped, sitting to glass etc, I would use a shell jacket over the puffy or puffy and fleece to cut the wind before it got to my insulation. Warmer but too warm for hiking and I would wet out my insulation also reducing its effectiveness

 

[mtwarden]

I've recently switched to a lightweight insulated (Polartec Alpha) active layer in a lieu of a heavy fleece layer; typically worn as an outer garment on the move (if it's really windy and a windshirt over the top).

When I stop to glass (or eat) my synthetic puffy (Apex insulation) goes over the top. I chose a very wind resistant, water resistant fabric for my puffy and this definitely increases the comfort when static.

Active insulated layer + insulated puffy layer = good combo

 

[*zap*]

Tagged.

 

[Chordeiles]

I wear a Sitka Flash pullover on top of a synthetic mid layer and merino base layer, while being active.
When stationary, I’ll add a 700 fill down jacket.

This system kept me warm, on multiple negative wind chill days, in Eastern Montana this past season.

Edit: On the coldest of days, I added a 650 down vest underneath the Flash.

I need to up my game for my legs while stationary though.

 

[ccarter]

If your peloton 240 fits anything like mine, there's no way a puffy will layer under it. The peloton is relatively fitted and stretches with your movement in my experience. That said, mine's wind resistant, but by no means is it wind proof. I also agree with the others who said they never wear a puffy while moving, unless it's just a short distance down a ridge. I've found that no matter how cold it is, if I'm moving, especially uphill with a pack, it gets warm in a hurry.
The idea of a windproof 60g vest under the puffy seems like a good option. Added weight if you end up carrying it is usually less than 8 oz.
Interesting question, I'll continue following along.

 

[Ynothunt41]

@ Ryan Avery...I'm glad you talked about the OR trade craft vest. I think that vest is what I am looking for. I wasn't going to spend $240 but I have one on the way for $120.

 

[Shraggs]

Ive done two puffy types before and i dont like it, and its better with a vest less binding. I agree just too much compression of both layers.

over Thanksgiving in Montana, it was real cold. Single digits blowing snow bla ba. i really like the FL sawtooth, and it was good over base when super active. In moderate active i put ll bean merino fatigue sweater and the sawtooth over it - it was haven. Warm and all layers still breathed real well. Chamberlain over the top when stationary. I just really prefer wool or fleece for one or more layers under a puffy.

 

[Chuck44]

Ive done two puffy types before and i dont like it, and its better with a vest less binding. I agree just too much compression of both layers.

over Thanksgiving in Montana, it was real cold. Single digits blowing snow bla ba. i really like the FL sawtooth, and it was good over base when super active. In moderate active i put ll bean merino fatigue sweater and the sawtooth over it - it was haven. Warm and all layers still breathed real well. Chamberlain over the top when stationary. I just really prefer wool or fleece for one or more layers under a puffy.

I really like the Sawtooth also....but I can only really wear a single base-layer under it without the arms binding up....that is not a bad thing....I intended for it to always be my 2nd layer. I have a Wool McAlister sweater that I often wear over it Waterfowl hunting....but that sweater is too heavy/bulky for packing anywhere.

 

[Shraggs]

My arms were snug too, but it was so cold - i pulled the wool sweater out put it on, then sawtooth right over. The cuffs on my sweater are so long i had too fold or roll them up about 3” - so it was thick at my wrists. It honestly was zero problem, the sawtooth stretched right over it and i hunted 3 days that way. I’m a 43 regular and bought a large sawtooth. Fyi