Colorado Lead-Free Pilot Program

But the discussion isn't about a lead ban.

It's a lead ban on game.

I'm not supporting it, but it won't make practice ammo more expensive.
Don’t be naive. Like I said above, they won’t stop at a ban on lead for game animals.

The ban on lead for game isn’t only about saving some birds. If it was, like I also said above, their first order of business should be removing windmills. Where are the calls for the removal of those?
 
But the discussion isn't about a lead ban.

It's a lead ban on game.

I'm not supporting it, but it won't make practice ammo more expensive.
Lead shotgun shells are banned at our range in town. I quite expensive to shoot clays with steel, so I never go there anymore.
 
For shotguns, which is my experience with tungsten, that is not the case. What bullets are you loading?
DRT. The only ones that exist. That have multiple threads on them here.

Shotguns have somewhere around an ounce of shot in them. Or 437gr. Quite a bit more than a 175gr 30 cal or a 79gr 22 cal.
 
Don’t be naive. Like I said above, they won’t stop at a ban on lead for game animals.

The ban on lead for game isn’t only about saving some birds. If it was, like I also said above, their first order of business should be removing windmills. Where are the calls for the removal of those?
Don't cry wolf when it's a coyote.

Acting like it's more than it is won't help.

If you want to be the side with facts on your side, be accurate.
 
This is the generation of me, me, me, me, me. Conservation only matters if it benefits me. Me, me, me.
Conservation and environmental concerns are not a new item. It's interesting how the previous generation spent decades creating the problems that exist today, and now they gripe, blame others, and support new restrictions as they leave the arena.
 
Conservation and environmental concerns are not a new item. It's interesting how the previous generation spent decades creating the problems that exist today, and now they gripe, blame others, and support new restrictions as they leave the arena.
Kind of like they did with manufacturing, housing, immigration… haha
 
But the discussion isn't about a lead ban.

It's a lead ban on game.

I'm not supporting it, but it won't make practice ammo more expensive.

Nonsense. These laws go hand in hand with using environmental regulations to shut down shooting ranges.

And once you can no longer use lead ammo for hunting, that will be the wedge they use to get rid of all lead ammo. “It’s unsafe for hunting so it is unsafe for everything! Won’t someone think of the ground water? And the children?!”

There are millions of rounds stockpiled in this country. Do you think for a minute that a lot of interested parties would not want to make them all illegal in a heartbeat? Think of the profits for the ammunition manufacturers and tax collectors.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”
 
Is any rifle ammo manufacturers pumping out a tungsten, zinc alloy or bismuth round that can mimic the explosive expansion we get from lead?

I think those are the front runners for soft/ dense/ non toxic metals, but really I think you start ingesting a bunch of those probably not ideal either… if say hornady could put something to market like that I think that many hunters would willing switch assuming it’s not 75$ a box…
 
Is any rifle ammo manufacturers pumping out a tungsten, zinc alloy or bismuth round that can mimic the explosive expansion we get from lead?

I think those are the front runners for soft/ dense/ non toxic metals, but really I think you start ingesting a bunch of those probably not ideal either… if say hornady could put something to market like that I think that many hunters would willing switch assuming it’s not 75$ a box…
Yes. The DRT frangibles use a compressed core that contains copper and tungsten. They produce dramatic wounding like the popular match bullets often discussed here, and unlike copper monos they produce good wounding at low impact velocities. Their problem is in consistency and precision, as a compressed powdered core is less uniform or consistent than lead so precision suffers. They also don't have great BCs for those who want to shoot farther.
 
I won't ever switch to copper unless I am forced to. This is a prime example;
-1st picture was with a 6.5 Grendel shooting a 123 grain ELDM
- 2nd and 3rd was with a 300 blackout shooting a 110 grain Barnes TacTX.

Even though the Barnes has a bigger cross section due to it being a 30 cal and impacted about 125-150 fps faster, the permanent crush cavity was still the size of a grown mans thumb. Where as the 123 ELDM left about a 50 cent piece through the deers lung. Every deer I have taken with monolithics have lead to the longest deaths unless I hit something that shuts off their CNS. I want the death of the animal to be quick not prolonged.
 

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Don't cry wolf when it's a coyote.

Acting like it's more than it is won't help.

If you want to be the side with facts on your side, be accurate.
What’s not accurate?

Has the raptor population increased or decreased over the past 40 years? Do windmills or lead from big game bullets kill more raptors.

Do the anti’s ever go back on their word or change the goal posts regarding hunting/gun/wildlife propositions?
 
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