Colorado Lead-Free Pilot Program

[ElPollo]

Last year I tried copper with my 6.5 creed. Learned a lesson from that. 6.5 and copper dont mix. It is too fast and at 80 yards i shot a buck a bit behind the sweet spot and it just stood there. I took an additional shot and hit about 2 inches lower. The buck moved up the hill about 30 yards stopped and turned and looked back. Hit hit him again through the neck and he took off. Tracked him with my hunting partner and found him down next to a log. As we were about 10 yards from him he jumped up and took off my hunting buddy dropped him for good with a 300 win mag. All three of my copper 6.5 creed went in and out of the buck the same size hole.

Not all copper bullets are the same, but most of them require higher speeds to open, are less prone to fragment, and generally result in much smaller wound channels. If you are truly limited to non-lead, you may want to look at the DRT bullets. They tend to perform about like a Berger and probably have about a 2000 fps lower impact velocity for them to fragment. Probably the best available non lead bullet on the market right now.

 

[OXN939]

Or you can refuse to capitulate to unsound theories

My end state is actually the exact opposite of capitulation... If you gift the other team too many lay ups, you usually lose the game.

Look at waterfowl hunting and big game in California, then consider how things are going to be 20 years from now. Pretty sure that change is coming, no matter how any of us feel about it. The decision is simply whether you want to get ahead of it or get run over.

 

[Bluumoon]

Ugh. Let’s rephrase..

You must clean your rifle barrel.

Why ?

Because you must clean your rifle barrel .

Do I get more precision or longer barrel life?

The barrel cleaning companies and “common sense” say you must clean your rifle barrel.

But, don’t they have a vested interest in me cleaning my barrel?


If you can’t listen to reason we shall write a law saying you must clean your rifle barrel.

Wouldn’t that impede on personal choice to have a more stable and predictable barrel?

You shall now only be able to purchase a rifle with a cleaning rod and cleaning clause w purchase agreement .

 

[Bluumoon]

They're just cool man. I like seeing golden eagles when I'm out in the sagebrush the same way I like seeing elk, songbirds, mountains. You don't need to join the Audubon society and go full bird nerd to check out a kestrel perched on a powerline by a wheatfield.

Indeed they are cool (and abundant!) and they love prairie dog carrion year round (another issue w some of the studies). Turns out golden eagles are equally fond of prairie dogs as well. Ospreys and kestrels appear in near equal abundance in my little corner of the world. They are undeniably cool.

 

[displacedtexan]

Or you can refuse to capitulate to unsound theories based on biased and poorly (kind way of saying it) formed conclusions.

Really we need to improve the general populations (and more importantly appointed board members) ability to evaluate studies design/merit and their conclusions rather than take on good faith that researchers are blindly forming hypothesis and presenting data w out bias.

If your research job/lively hood/phd depends on your study leading to further funding, might you portray your results (consciously or unconsciously) in a certain way?

People on both sides of virtually every issue attack research that challenges what they already believe...

Confirmation bias is real, on both ends.

 

[Bluumoon]

People on both sides of virtually every issue attack research that challenges what they already believe...

Confirmation bias is real, on both ends.

I don’t disagree. Laughed at my self after posting for pointing out abundance in my area, certainly not representative of raptor populations on a broader scale. We should all be questioning the narratives.

 

[displacedtexan]

Ag

I don’t disagree. Laughed at my self after posting for pointing out abundance in my area, certainly not representative of raptor populations on a broader scale. We should all be questioning the narratives.

Agreed.

 

[Hnthrdr]

This is the generation of me, me, me, me, me. Conservation only matters if it benefits me. Me, me, me.

Sorry, but if a few slob hunters stayed home, so there are more owls, eagles and hawks I view that as a win. “Eagles are nothing more than seagulls?” WTF.

Go to a dump in Alaska or any harbor in SE Alaska for a few days and you will see why they are fancy looking sea gulls, watch them kill each other over halibut scraps… not too majestic then… there was a reason the Ben Frank wanted the Turkey as our national bird. No one wants to eradicate eagles, I would welcome innovation in the ammo industry but shudder at what tungsten copper blended ammo would cost… we should not budge an inch on the ammo thing especially in Co, next thing they will say is it harmful to deer and elk to shoot them, so if it saves their lives we should not shoot them then right? There are plenty and I mean plenty of raptors in the state… Hell I would regularly see more red tail hawks than pheasants out east they are doing just fine

 

[Hnthrdr]

They're just cool man. I like seeing golden eagles when I'm out in the sagebrush the same way I like seeing elk, songbirds, mountains. You don't need to join the Audubon society and go full bird nerd to check out a kestrel perched on a powerline by a wheatfield.

For sure we all love seeing them. We are just far more skeptical in Co, we have them actively trying to eliminate CPW and replace it with a group who would have the power to rule over all wildlife decisions and if they say it’s science well too bad, that’s the end of it, I think we want to make sure it really is science and not totally biased BS used to chip away further at our rights

 

[z987k]

Go to a dump in Alaska or any harbor in SE Alaska for a few days and you will see why they are fancy looking sea gulls, watch them kill each other over halibut scraps… not too majestic then… there was a reason the Ben Frank wanted the Turkey as our national bird. No one wants to eradicate eagles, I would welcome innovation in the ammo industry but shudder at what tungsten copper blended ammo would cost… we should not budge an inch on the ammo thing especially in Co, next thing they will say is it harmful to deer and elk to shoot them, so if it saves their lives we should not shoot them then right? There are plenty and I mean plenty of raptors in the state… Hell I would regularly see more red tail hawks than pheasants out east they are doing just fine

Tungsten bullets are as cheap or even cheaper than some lead(nosler) bullets.

 

[Flyjunky]

This is the generation of me, me, me, me, me. Conservation only matters if it benefits me. Me, me, me.

Sorry, but if a few slob hunters stayed home, so there are more owls, eagles and hawks I view that as a win. “Eagles are nothing more than seagulls?” WTF.

You’re right, me, me, me, me

The same people wanting a lead ban to save raptors are the same idiots who promote wind mills. Care to guess which kills more birds?

We can start talking a lead ban when they start talking about windmill bans. Until then, I’ll be under the impression of ulterior motives.

 

[Fatcamp]

Tungsten bullets are as cheap or even cheaper than some lead(nosler) bullets.

For shotguns, which is my experience with tungsten, that is not the case. What bullets are you loading?

 

[RWT]

The solution is in the ammo industry. The complainers are like a splinter in your thumb. It will never go away unless you do something about it. They will fester and grow increasing the pain. Best to cut it out as soon as it appears.

All parties have something to gain
Ammo industry needs to advance bullet tech and this they get to sell more.
Hunters get the LIBs out of our area by hunting with bunny approved ammo
LIBs are shut down as all the studies on the impact will take some time to determine.

10-15 years from now the LIBs will find something else to whine about. Hunters and the industry will respond with a solution. See waterfowl hunting over the past 30 years. This is called growth and evolution. If you refuse to adjust to the environment, you become extinct. Adapt and overcome or get run over.

 

[WRO]

This is the generation of me, me, me, me, me. Conservation only matters if it benefits me. Me, me, me.

Sorry, but if a few slob hunters stayed home, so there are more owls, eagles and hawks I view that as a win. “Eagles are nothing more than seagulls?” WTF.

With a good marketing job, if you’re going to quote me get it right.

I’ve spent a shit load of time around bald eagles and I stand by my observation.

When it comes to wanting to see more sheep on the mountain or more golden eagles, same thing more sheep on the mountain.

It doesn’t mean I want predators to disappear, but I’m not a big fan of unlimited ones.

 

[Hnthrdr]

The solution is in the ammo industry. The complainers are like a splinter in your thumb. It will never go away unless you do something about it. They will fester and grow increasing the pain. Best to cut it out as soon as it appears.

All parties have something to gain
Ammo industry needs to advance bullet tech and this they get to sell more.
Hunters get the LIBs out of our area by hunting with bunny approved ammo
LIBs are shut down as all the studies on the impact will take some time to determine.

10-15 years from now the LIBs will find something else to whine about. Hunters and the industry will respond with a solution. See waterfowl hunting over the past 30 years. This is called growth and evolution. If you refuse to adjust to the environment, you become extinct. Adapt and overcome or get run over.

Yes we bent over backwards for the ducks, steel shot is a joke compared to lead, the heavy metal blends work much much better than steel but dang those are pricey, trick to killing with steel is decoy them at 25-30 yards( which is the most fun of duck hunt imo) I want the innovation to come as well. I also want to be able to buy as much less expensive “target” ammo as we want, let’s remember 2A has nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with maintaining a *somewhat free existence

 

[displacedtexan]

It doesn’t mean I want predators to disappear, but I’m not a big fan of unlimited ones.

It's always blows my mind that so many people (on both sides, as per usual lol) think predators are an all or nothing proposition.

 

[Hnthrdr]

It's always blows my mind that so many people (on both sides, as per usual lol) think predators are an all or nothing proposition.

For sure, we know it’s not, us in Co especially are leery from the whole prop 114 let us put wolves back cause they will heal the land (science says so!) crowd, well all “conservationists” should be in favor of unlimited wolves right? Or unlimited lions and bears? “Science says we need them!” This whole push has a similarly eire vibe

 

[hibernation]

For sure we all love seeing them. We are just far more skeptical in Co, we have them actively trying to eliminate CPW and replace it with a group who would have the power to rule over all wildlife decisions and if they say it’s science well too bad, that’s the end of it, I think we want to make sure it really is science and not totally biased BS used to chip away further at our rights

Yeah, I'm pretty strongly opposed to any of the sketchy pushes for ballot initiatives around wildlife management. It's so easy to rile people up if you've got a big advertising budget, and it's always easier to make angry people show up and vote than it is to get the "this actually seems fine" crowd. Low turnout for random votes like this just makes it easy for a motivated minority to pass their pet issue.

Same goes for the longer play they're making in states by taking over the game commissions. It's acting in bad faith and I totally understand and agree with your skepticism. Colorado and Washington seem to be getting the brunt of it lately.

 

[Flyjunky]

I also want to be able to buy as much less expensive “target” ammo as we want, let’s remember 2A has nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with maintaining a *somewhat free existence

This gets overlooked in the discussion. The mantra on this site is practice, practice, practice. That becomes WAY more expensive if lead bullets are banned.

The largest percentage of ammo sales is not hunting ammo, it’s recreational shooters. According to the last study in 2021, 73% of Pittman-Robertson dollars came from non-hunting firearm/ammo sales. Don’t think for one minute that a ban on lead won’t lead to a ban on lead for ALL ammo.

 

[displacedtexan]

This gets overlooked in the discussion. The mantra on this site is practice, practice, practice. That becomes WAY more expensive if lead bullets are banned.

The largest percentage of ammo sales is not hunting ammo, it’s recreational shooters. According to the last study in 2021, 73% of Pittman-Robertson dollars came from non-hunting firearm/ammo sales. Don’t think for one minute that a ban on lead won’t lead to a ban on lead for ALL ammo.

But the discussion isn't about a lead ban.

It's a lead ban on game.

I'm not supporting it, but it won't make practice ammo more expensive.