Broomd
WKR
Completely agree.
Colorado Approves New Shed Hunting Regs
- Thread starter cnelk
- Start date
Completely agree.
I agree, I think a number of them do it to get out into the woods and make some money selling them.
I have no problem with shed hunting when done after the winter ends, but if shed hunters can't control their own, then the States/Feds will step in to do it for them and I'll support it. In fact, I'll support fines as big as poaching fines, including the loss of general hunting privileges.
Seriously, the only thing that matters here is that elk and deer are not additionally stressed in late winter when they are at their weakest.
Yes, dog walkers, hikers and bikers probably occasionally cause brief stress when they pas through elk areas; however, this is a truly weak argument. The reality is that most of of those folks stay on trail and away from wintering elk/mulies. ONLY shed hunters are monetarily incentivized to go further and deeper off-trail directly into conservation areas for the sole purpose of finding shed antlers and making money. ONLY shed hunters are incentivized to push, chase or harass bull elk or buck mulies in an attempt to force them to drop antlers so they can make money. Even shed hunters who are not intentionally pushing or harassing elk/mulies are still incentivized to go as far off trail and as deep into conservation areas as possible to find antlers and make money or grab ego points for finding big sheds. Aggressive shed hunting activity creates consistent animal/human conflict when done during the winter when the animals are vulnerable.
I completely disagree that it is somehow *onerous* to limit or regulate shed hunters in order to protect animals when it is shed hunters who specifically want to be exactly where elk are and need to be in the depth of winter. Dog walkers, cross country skiers, hikers and snowmobilers are not on a specific mission to find winter elk range and stay in it. It is shed hunters alone who want to be closest to elk when elk are at their weakest and it is only shed hunters who are monetarily incentivized to venture far off trail and to stay in elk winter habitat to make money.
I'm sure the States and Feds have plenty of actual legitimate legal argument (versus supposition) that dropped antlers are indeed State or Fed property and that they can regulate them in order to manage and protect wildlife.
It may be that antler prices have doubled in 5 years due to dog-chew market demand (I don't shed hunt), but expecting folks to stop buying antler pieces in order to curb market demand and drop prices is a ridiculous position to take. If the goal of the logic is to dry up demand and discourage Wal-mart, Costco and every other major chain from selling them, then make it illegal. That'll stop it. And make it illegal to export them. And make the fines massive. Then demand will go drop back closer to where it was 30 years ago and prices will drop big time.
Again, the only issue I have is stress on the animals caused by illicit and aggressive shed gathering practices. Feds/State are charged with protecting wildlife. If shed hunters aggressively looking to make money cause wildlife stress and can't self regulate, then they'll be regulated in whatever ever manner the feds or state see as most efficient in order to protect wildlife. And the guys that can't self regulate will have screwed the legitimate guys who play by the rules- so be pissed at them, not the Feds/States. As a hunter that wants game to make it through the winter, I will fully support whatever the States/Feds need to do to protect wintering wildlife.
JL
Seriously, the only thing that matters here is that elk and deer are not additionally stressed in late winter when they are at their weakest.
Yes, dog walkers, hikers and bikers probably occasionally cause brief stress when they pas through elk areas; however, this is a truly weak argument. The reality is that most of of those folks stay on trail and away from wintering elk/mulies. ONLY shed hunters are monetarily incentivized to go further and deeper off-trail directly into conservation areas for the sole purpose of finding shed antlers and making money. ONLY shed hunters are incentivized to push, chase or harass bull elk or buck mulies in an attempt to force them to drop antlers so they can make money. Even shed hunters who are not intentionally pushing or harassing elk/mulies are still incentivized to go as far off trail and as deep into conservation areas as possible to find antlers and make money or grab ego points for finding big sheds. Aggressive shed hunting activity creates consistent animal/human conflict when done during the winter when the animals are vulnerable.
I completely disagree that it is somehow *onerous* to limit or regulate shed hunters in order to protect animals when it is shed hunters who specifically want to be exactly where elk are and need to be in the depth of winter. Dog walkers, cross country skiers, hikers and snowmobilers are not on a specific mission to find winter elk range and stay in it. It is shed hunters alone who want to be closest to elk when elk are at their weakest and it is only shed hunters who are monetarily incentivized to venture far off trail and to stay in elk winter habitat to make money.
I'm sure the States and Feds have plenty of actual legitimate legal argument (versus supposition) that dropped antlers are indeed State or Fed property and that they can regulate them in order to manage and protect wildlife.
It may be that antler prices have doubled in 5 years due to dog-chew market demand (I don't shed hunt), but expecting folks to stop buying antler pieces in order to curb market demand and drop prices is a ridiculous position to take. If the goal of the logic is to dry up demand and discourage Wal-mart, Costco and every other major chain from selling them, then make it illegal. That'll stop it. And make it illegal to export them. And make the fines massive. Then demand will go drop back closer to where it was 30 years ago and prices will drop big time.
Again, the only issue I have is stress on the animals caused by illicit and aggressive shed gathering practices. Feds/State are charged with protecting wildlife. If shed hunters aggressively looking to make money cause wildlife stress and can't self regulate, then they'll be regulated in whatever ever manner the feds or state see as most efficient in order to protect wildlife. And the guys that can't self regulate will have screwed the legitimate guys who play by the rules- so be pissed at them, not the Feds/States. As a hunter that wants game to make it through the winter, I will fully support whatever the States/Feds need to do to protect wintering wildlife.
JL
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5MilesBack
"DADDY"
Yes, I completely agree. The CDOW has absolutely no control over an antler laying on the ground anymore than the rock that it is lying next to. Once the antler is dropped it has no ties at all to the wildlife that they manage and is most likely laying on Federal or private land.
Like you said, if people are harassing wildlife......then enforce the laws that are already under their jurisdiction. Otherwise......they aren't even in the picture for control of shed antlers. On the other hand, that's also a slippery slope as I believe that chasing a herd of elk around trying to kill one could very easily be considered "harassing wildlife" as well.
Or.......perhaps Colorado is just assuming that the Feds may want to transfer control of the lands and the resources (i.e. sheds, timber, etc) on those lands to the state of Colorado? That would give them the authority to control sheds.
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Foldem
WKR
The antlers will still be there in May unless they are picked up illegally. If there's that much lawbreaking in the shed hunting community it should be a payday for CPW if they enforce the law with all the tickets they will be writing. I wish more of the shed hunting community would speak up in defense of our wildlife's needs at a critical time of year and less about the impacts to their personal collection and Instagram feed.
Im pretty sure you can sell mounts in some states. But there seems to be a huge market for antlers in dog chews, which wont go away any time soon. People who are greedy/blinded by money will still push for antlers and make even more money with no competition from law abiding citizens.
- Banned
- #29
Agreed.
That is the major issue.
IMO, a few comments.
1. If there are critical wintering areas, close those to ALL human activity if you're going to make the argument that humans are killing deer recreating.
2. It makes no sense to allow bird watchers, skiers, snowshoeing, hiking, photography, predator hunting, lion hunting, wolf hunting, late season big-game hunting (many elk units in MT, ID, etc. going into late Jan and even mid-Feb), snow mobiling, ATV riding, and the list goes on and on and on...but its shed hunting that is pushing these deer over the edge. Going to have to call BS on that.
3. Its nothing but feel good legislation, and there's already lots of harassment rules in place to deal with any recreationist that is harassing them...those need to be enforced to the fullest extent.
People sell mounts all the time
Guess we’re finally going to find out if these shed closures are enforceable.
I used to shed hunt quite a bit but hardly have the stomach for it now. It hurts the wintering game way more than than much of the shed community will admit. I’m here to admit that I was hurting wintering deer when I was pushing them around as I hiked through their wintering grounds. Around here, the other recreationalists hardly penetrate the winter range compared to the shed hunters.
I say good on Colorado. And if they can enforce the law, with the help of conerned citizens, those sheds will still be there come opening day.
I used to shed hunt quite a bit but hardly have the stomach for it now. It hurts the wintering game way more than than much of the shed community will admit. I’m here to admit that I was hurting wintering deer when I was pushing them around as I hiked through their wintering grounds. Around here, the other recreationalists hardly penetrate the winter range compared to the shed hunters.
I say good on Colorado. And if they can enforce the law, with the help of conerned citizens, those sheds will still be there come opening day.
justinspicher
WKR
I’m a bit torn on this subject because I like to find sheds, but I like to see the progress towards helping wildlife.
I’m not overly happy to have to pay yet another fee to do something I enjoy when folks who hike or ride mountain bikes don’t fork over a dime to enjoy their hobby.
I feel that if it’s a real issue, just close the area down and give the animals a break from everything, period.
I’m not overly happy to have to pay yet another fee to do something I enjoy when folks who hike or ride mountain bikes don’t fork over a dime to enjoy their hobby.
I feel that if it’s a real issue, just close the area down and give the animals a break from everything, period.
How many other groups tromp all over the place, most probably stay on a trail and nothing is stopping anyone from just getting out, just leave the bone.
5MilesBack
"DADDY"
So it's the actual picking up the antler from off the ground that's causing the problem?
Again......the real question here is whether the state of Colorado or the CDOW has jurisdiction over Federal lands and any other resource besides the wildlife on those lands. So many here are adamantly against the states having that control and jurisdiction, yet they're AOK with it in this particular case?
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fishforsmallies
FNG
I will use my first post on Rokslide to say that I couldn’t agree more. Only punishes the honest man (especially an out-of-stater like me who drives 900 miles once a year just hoping to find an elk antler or two) while rewarding the guys willing and able to break the rules. Close the areas completely if you really want to make a difference.
Haha, not as simple as that but the fact is shed hunters go all over the place disturbing and stressing wildlife during a very critical time. It’s all about not disturbing wintering wildlife which I’m sure other recreational activities have a minimal impact compared to shed hunting. Plus like archery, shed hunting has grown due to social media and more and more people are racing to collect all the bone.
I bet if you put a license on the bone and ability to sell the bone this would fade away somewhat. A $1000 license to collect and sell bone and buyers have to keep track of sellers lic numbers and have them sign their intent to sell. I mean if they get $14 a lb a $1000 license shouldn’t be too much for a dedicated individual.
jmez
WKR
Just stop in SD, cut your trip in half and no regulations on shed hunting that I'm aware of.
You have the same choice as a resident to follow rules or not. Come on out you get to decide when
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fishforsmallies
FNG
Because I choose to follow the rules I will spend a couple of days there after the season opens. I always hope to simply find a couple nice brown elk antlers to add to my small collection. Not interested in selling them.
First, major props to Robby for stepping up and weighing in on his prior experience with shed hunting and sharing his current sentiments.
Second, in my prior post earlier in this thread, I stated that I have no issue with shed hunting when done within the regulations and without stressing game. After a lot of thought and reflection, I've changed my mind a bit with regard to shed hunting.
Setting aside the issue of aggressive shed hunting and pressuring of elk and deer, I'm of the mind that me and every other hunter out there spend a helluva lot of money on licenses (if you're out of state like me).
Hunters do not go into the woods to hunt in order to MAKE money and we are not compensated in any way for our efforts. Aside from the satisfaction of having a good hunt and potentially getting an animal, the entire hunting experience is nothing but a huge cash out-of-pocket expense. Hunters cannot even legally sell the meat from game that we harvest. Our license fees (in my case $650 or more since I'm out of state) go toward helping the state manage game.
On the other hand, shed "hunters" get to ride on the back of all the licensing fees that hunters pay, ride on the back of outfitter franchise fees paid to the States, ride on the back of the work that the States, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and the Mule Deer Foundation do to try manage and improve game. Money making Shed "hunters" go into the wilderness specifically to grab antlers that are there in part due to better game management and then sell them for a helluva lot of money without paying a single dime to try to help game management.
If a hundred pounds of antlers sells for $1,400 and some shed hunters collect hundreds of pounds, then shed "hunters" should pay some sort of in-state or out-of-state hunters license fee (and it should not be small), after all, they're actually making money off big game while big game hunters simply spend money to help game. Let shed hunters contribute some of what they're making to the welfare big game herds.
No other recreational use I know of exists to simply to make money off the work and funding of others without paying a dime, not bird watchers, not skiers, not snowshoers, not hikers and not photographers (ok, well I guess you could say that some photographers are pros and sell their photos, but that's pretty low impact).
Another option would be for the states to pass a special tax on shed antlers that would go toward funding game management.
Anyhow, them's my thoughts.
Best,
JL
Second, in my prior post earlier in this thread, I stated that I have no issue with shed hunting when done within the regulations and without stressing game. After a lot of thought and reflection, I've changed my mind a bit with regard to shed hunting.
Setting aside the issue of aggressive shed hunting and pressuring of elk and deer, I'm of the mind that me and every other hunter out there spend a helluva lot of money on licenses (if you're out of state like me).
Hunters do not go into the woods to hunt in order to MAKE money and we are not compensated in any way for our efforts. Aside from the satisfaction of having a good hunt and potentially getting an animal, the entire hunting experience is nothing but a huge cash out-of-pocket expense. Hunters cannot even legally sell the meat from game that we harvest. Our license fees (in my case $650 or more since I'm out of state) go toward helping the state manage game.
On the other hand, shed "hunters" get to ride on the back of all the licensing fees that hunters pay, ride on the back of outfitter franchise fees paid to the States, ride on the back of the work that the States, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and the Mule Deer Foundation do to try manage and improve game. Money making Shed "hunters" go into the wilderness specifically to grab antlers that are there in part due to better game management and then sell them for a helluva lot of money without paying a single dime to try to help game management.
If a hundred pounds of antlers sells for $1,400 and some shed hunters collect hundreds of pounds, then shed "hunters" should pay some sort of in-state or out-of-state hunters license fee (and it should not be small), after all, they're actually making money off big game while big game hunters simply spend money to help game. Let shed hunters contribute some of what they're making to the welfare big game herds.
No other recreational use I know of exists to simply to make money off the work and funding of others without paying a dime, not bird watchers, not skiers, not snowshoers, not hikers and not photographers (ok, well I guess you could say that some photographers are pros and sell their photos, but that's pretty low impact).
Another option would be for the states to pass a special tax on shed antlers that would go toward funding game management.
Anyhow, them's my thoughts.
Best,
JL
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