Cold Bore Challenge

[Lawnboi]

Even though it's only 15 minutes from my house, the set up, trar down , load and unload would be a logistical cost I would need to factor in, as would everyone who doesnt shoot out their back door. But even iu=in the cold bow shoot, not everyone has a back yard that offers the luxury. These chsllenges are not for everyone. But they are cool challenges and offer our sponsors opportunity to rep their brand as give aways. I may have to break out the 6.5 CM for this as it is deadly past 1000. But, personally I wouldn't hunt with it. It would be interesting to see what rules they come up with. Maybe it doesn't need to be 7 days in a row. Maybe one day or 3 or 5 in a 30 day period. That would give us every weekend for a month.

I’m interested as well. Just something to add to my practice regime. I think a drill that gets people off the bench, regardless of range would be a winner. I like the Kraft challenge as it’s an eye opener on what a person is really capable of and is not so specific that peoples hunting style and gear would limit them.

That said it’s the baby of chris way so I’d think having his blessing would be a hurdle, maybe not though.

 

[dirtytough]

I like the part of identifying your mer in the cold bow challenge when you start. You do the same with the cold bore challenge but also add in positions for mer.

Prone, standing, sitting, kneeling, etc. Obviously mer would be different for each. That way you wouldn’t need to drive somewhere to shoot long range every time. Might work out better logistics wise to get more shooters involved that way.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I like the part of identifying your mer in the cold bow challenge when you start. You do the same with the cold bore challenge but also add in positions for mer.

Prone, standing, sitting, kneeling, etc. Obviously mer would be different for each. That way you wouldn’t need to drive somewhere to shoot long range every time. Might work out better logistics wise to get more shooters involved that way.

I could see this being a challenge that’s somewhat exclusive and not all of us with feasibly be able to do it based on the logistics…and that’s ok. I’m pretty sure I can, but it’ll require me to drive 1:15-1:30 minutes each way to get to some national forest land I can haul my steel out to, and then I get to walk it 800 yards because I have to stay on the roads. That might be the worst part!!!

For those shooting rocks, setting up a phone scope and either screenshot the hits or load the video onto YouTube and provide a link. Might be a fun way of changing it up a little!

As far as the MER portion, I’d at least like to see there be a minimum. I think pushing the distance would make this a lot more fun.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

So would this be a set distance everyone is shooting to? Simulating a hunting shot so prone or off backpack, shooting sticks, etc?

Vast majority of my kills are bipod with lightweight rear bag that hangs off my bino harness and Velcro loop detaches with a tug. Would this be an “allowed” setup? Learning from killing thousands of varmints at long range, much past 500 yards that rear bag is a real difference maker.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I could see this being a challenge that’s somewhat exclusive and not all of us with feasibly be able to do it based on the logistics…and that’s ok. I’m pretty sure I can, but it’ll require me to drive 1:15-1:30 minutes each way to get to some national forest land I can haul my steel out to, and then I get to walk it 800 yards because I have to stay on the roads. That might be the worst part!!!

For those shooting rocks, setting up a phone scope and either screenshot the hits or load the video onto YouTube and provide a link. Might be a fun way of changing it up a little!

As far as the MER portion, I’d at least like to see there be a minimum. I think pushing the distance would make this a lot more fun.

Spray painting white or orange mark onto the rock is normally very easy and doesn’t take as much time as people think. Bring a tape measure…

I normally spray a 1ish MOA circle for the distance with vertical and horizontal lines extending past the circle about 6 inches in each direction.

Picture this below but with lines extending out from the dot. This gong was at 1,500 yards. 12” round plate. Two 3 round magazines, went 6 for 6. Can you tell which direction the 5 mph wind was blowing?

I can see wind being the biggest issue with this challenge same as with hunting. My comfortable killing range on big game easily gets cut in half or more when wind is in play.

 

[Lawnboi]

Spray painting white or orange mark onto the rock is normally very easy and doesn’t take as much time as people think. Bring a tape measure…

I normally spray a 1ish MOA circle for the distance with vertical and horizontal lines extending past the circle about 6 inches in each direction.

Picture this below but with lines extending out from the dot. This gong was at 1,500 yards. 12” round plate. Two 3 round magazines, went 6 for 6. Can you tell which direction the 5 mph wind was blowing?

I can see wind being the biggest issue with this challenge same as with hunting. My comfortable killing range on big game easily gets cut in half or more when wind is in play.

View attachment 400239

Part of the reason 100 yard paper would be appealing.

Paper don’t lie.

Wind, specifically known wind of your known range dosnt matter. Me shooting at a range Iv shot dozens of times does not relate to going out in the field and shooting.

Not hard to extrapolate what would happen at distance given a no wind situation.

Most have easy access to 100 yards.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Part of the reason 100 yard paper would be appealing.

Paper don’t lie.

Wind, specifically known wind of your known range dosnt matter. Me shooting at a range Iv shot dozens of times does not relate to going out in the field and shooting.

Not hard to extrapolate what would happen at distance given a no wind situation.

Most have easy access to 100 yards.

This is why it's so difficult. I shoot paper all the time but also can shoot in several different mountain spots in less than 30 Minutes with different wind and conditions daily. So I see how flawed this can be for a MER, Shooting paper is great for reps, fundamentals, and finding your positional weaknesses but doesn't tell me jack about my real MER in the mountains. Then factor in 60% of my shot on animals in the past ten years are in the prone and 40% are sitting and shooting off my pack or tripod. A lot more variables than the archery folks.

 

[Lawnboi]

This is why it's so difficult. I shoot paper all the time but also can shoot in several different mountain spots in less than 30 Minutes with different wind and conditions daily. So I see how flawed this can be for a MER, Shooting paper is great for reps, fundamentals, and finding your positional weaknesses but doesn't tell me jack about my real MER in the mountains. Then factor in 60% of my shot on animals in the past ten years are in the prone and 40% are sitting and shooting off my pack or tripod. A lot more variables than the archery folks.

Lots of variables is right. On top of that a long range shot for me here in WI (well long range for me) is a hell of a lot easier than most of the shooting Iv done west of the Mississippi.

Personally, I have 400 yards available to me fairly close. But it’s a lane cut in the woods in northern WI. Does nothing for me when it comes to learning wind. I just wouldn’t be able to participate if the case was long range in the mountains.

Paper at 100 tells me about everything of my MER from field positions when I do not factor in wind… for the most part. Unfortunately there is no way to practice wind other than having it available. And day one to day 10 my MER might change 10 times. From what Iv seen out of most hunters past 300, is wind dosnt play as much of a role as we think, because their cone of fire is so large due to fundamental flaws that you can’t even base a wind call off their shot. Lot easier to correct wind and learn wind when you have confidence in your rifle from field positions.

I think a drill like the Kraft or similar gives members the opportunity to participate, and gets them off the bench and or belly, which is realistically what needs to be done if you want to know how your going to shoot when not presented with your normal. And while I’d agree I don’t see many people taking standing shots in the field, it’s still worth the 3 shots to practice. The hunting community as a whole would be a whole lot better off if they stopped shooting at the bench, and recycled the lead sled.

If sponsors like xlr are in play, I see ALOT of people participating.

 

[TX_Diver]

Lots of variables is right. On top of that a long range shot for me here in WI (well long range for me) is a hell of a lot easier than most of the shooting Iv done west of the Mississippi.

Personally, I have 400 yards available to me fairly close. But it’s a lane cut in the woods in northern WI. Does nothing for me when it comes to learning wind. I just wouldn’t be able to participate if the case was long range in the mountains.

Paper at 100 tells me about everything of my MER from field positions when I do not factor in wind… for the most part. Unfortunately there is no way to practice wind other than having it available. And day one to day 10 my MER might change 10 times. From what Iv seen out of most hunters past 300, is wind dosnt play as much of a role as we think, because their cone of fire is so large due to fundamental flaws that you can’t even base a wind call off their shot. Lot easier to correct wind and learn wind when you have confidence in your rifle from field positions.

I think a drill like the Kraft or similar gives members the opportunity to participate, and gets them off the bench and or belly, which is realistically what needs to be done if you want to know how your going to shoot when not presented with your normal. And while I’d agree I don’t see many people taking standing shots in the field, it’s still worth the 3 shots to practice. The hunting community as a whole would be a whole lot better off if they stopped shooting at the bench, and recycled the lead sled.

If sponsors like xlr are in play, I see ALOT of people participating.

I'd also favor a paper at 100 challenge based on positional shooting (but can shoot 400 yards at the house as long as the challenge is before the soybeans get too tall...).

Maybe a combination of both or paper at 100 to enter and steel at distance for a bonus entry? Shoot a kraft challenge to get entered, then shoot a 2-3 MOA target between 3-600 from 4 different positions over 2-3 weeks (1 or 2 shots each target?).

I'll be following and trying to participate unless there's a requirement to get beyond 400. I just don't have access to that.

 

[Ucsdryder]

What’s the point of paper at 100? That’s like doing the archery challenge at 15 yards. There are going to be a bunch of tiny little holes touching eachother.

 

[Lawnboi]

What’s the point of paper at 100? That’s like doing the archery challenge at 15 yards. There are going to be a bunch of tiny little holes touching eachother.

Shoot a Kraft challenge and find out

 

[Ucsdryder]

Shoot a Kraft challenge and find out

I’ve done something similar, once, I’ve done it with archery too, once. Makes sense if it’s a way so we can all be included if that’s what @Ryan Avery wants to do.

 

[Lawnboi]

I’ve done something similar, once, I’ve done it with archery too, once. Makes sense if it’s a way so we can all be included if that’s what @Ryan Avery wants to do.

It relates more than a little. If you can’t hit a 1” dot on command at 100 yards from field positions, your not going to hit a 7” target at 700 yards either.

I’m also an archery hunter and when it comes to archery things don’t really relate, atleast I don’t think they do.

Print out some Kraft targets and shoot them, then post them up! Got a thread going. I think you will be surprised if you’re honest with it.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

It relates more than a little. If you can’t hit a 1” dot on command at 100 yards from field positions, your not going to hit a 7” target at 700 yards either.

I’m also an archery hunter and when it comes to archery things don’t really relate, atleast I don’t think they do.

Print out some Kraft targets and shoot them, then post them up! Got a thread going. I think you will be surprised if you’re honest with it.

Yeah but it takes away one of the most important aspects of long range shooting.. Reading the wind

 

[Lawnboi]

Yeah but it takes away one of the most important aspects of long range shooting.. Reading the wind

Don’t disagree one bit.

But still, can’t hit a 1” dot at 100, all or no wind you are not hitting a 1moa target at distance.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Don’t disagree one bit.

But still, can’t hit a 1” dot at 100, all or no wind you are not hitting a 1moa target at distance.

That's absolutely true but take the inverse scenario.
Hitting a 1 moa target at 100 yards does not in any way translate to hitting an moa target at range with wind and topography as factors

 

[Lawnboi]

That's absolutely true but take the inverse scenario.
Hitting a 1 moa target at 100 yards does not in any way translate to hitting an moa target at range with wind and topography as factors

That’s true as well. But how do we set up a scenario where a bunch of guys who may not have access to unknown terrain and wind can shoot and quantify the results of their shooting for an online challenge?

I said it above but in an unknown area with unknown wind my MER might change throughout the day. That combined with that I’m assuming most guys will shoot this at a range they know, or public land that they normally shoot at, you get a skewed result. And start throwing in a lot of factors.

I can tell you what happens with the wind where I shoot all the time easy, dosn’t mean that my MER anywhere.

That and I think if more guys shot the Kraft drill or similar they would find out they are not the shooters they thought. Big difference between precision and accuracy, especially when breaking your position after each shot and not using a bench.

 

[Justin Crossley]

We are talking about our Max Effective Range in hunting situations. For me, that means shooting prone with a very solid rest. All the other positional stuff is fine and I like the idea dirtytough mentioned about different MER for different positions.

Shooting 100 yards won't tell me anything about what my rifle and I are capable of at long range. Shooting thousands of rounds per year in varying conditions and ranges tells me something about my limitations and I continue to learn more about that every time I shoot.

Remember that the point of the cold bow or cold bore challenge is not to compare yourself to anyone else which is why the prizes have nothing to do with the actual range someone shoots. The point is to make it fun to challenge ourselves in an honest way and to give each of us a better understanding of OUR limitations.

 

[Lawnboi]

We are talking about our Max Effective Range in hunting situations. For me, that means shooting prone with a very solid rest. All the other positional stuff is fine and I like the idea dirtytough mentioned about different MER for different positions.

Shooting 100 yards won't tell me anything about what my rifle and I are capable of at long range. Shooting thousands of rounds per year in varying conditions and ranges tells me something about my limitations and I continue to learn more about that every time I shoot.

Remember that the point of the cold bow or cold bore challenge is not to compare yourself to anyone else which is why the prizes have nothing to do with the actual range someone shoots. The point is to make it fun to challenge ourselves in an honest way and to give each of us a better understanding of OUR limitations.

That’s why something like this is near impossible. That or only a few will be able to participate.

I’d agree to disagree with some of what you wrote. Most of my shots, back home and out west have not been prone. Prone is not a problem, it’s when I can’t get prone is where I have trouble. And Imo 100 yards of purposeful shooting surely can tell a lot.

I can’t decide what’s a bigger factor, the shooter or the wind, but they both screw me equally.

If you guys come up with something I’ll do what I can to participate.

 

[woods89]

My 2 cents.....

I've got access to 175 yds at my place. Anything over that will make it much more difficult for me to participate.

A challenge is going to be a tough nut to crack. I think there would be value in shooting Kraft challenges with hunting rifles, but I also realize that there are aspects that won't be addressed with just that.

I've also killed animals from all sorts of crazy positions. I went to CO last year prepared to shoot 400 yds if needed and wound up having to kill a bull very quickly at 50 yds offhand with a backpack on. Thank goodness I had spent some time practicing that scenario as I had very little time margin to get it done. I also think a lot of people assume that's an easy shot to make, but in the moment it's amazing what all can go sideways.