Co point banking revisited…

[ColoradoV]

Interesting info at the link. Comment by the 28th.

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2023/May/Item.20-MEMO_Preference_Points_May_PWC_Meeting_Version_04212023-Katie_Lanter-DNR.pdf

 

[coloradodrifter]

Send send them an email on how you feel. [email protected]
The comment period ends on 4/28/23 I believe.

 

[Bluumoon]

I commented on the last thread, but my suggestion...
To whom it may concern,

I would like to comment on the preference point/point banking system. In the current system point creep, as has been identified by the commission, lead to a situation where only 5% of applicants will ever have a chance at a true "trophy" unit. Understanding that people have paid into the preference system for many years and should get a return on the investment, but at the same time acknowledging the system alienates 95% of applicants a change is warranted.

My suggestion is two fold. First is to cap the number of preference points anyone can accumulate at an attainable #, ie 10 preference points. Any unit that would have previously taken >10 preference points would be random draw once you reached the 10 preference points to be eligible for that draw. This will increase revenue to the CPW by creating actual opportunity and incentive for the majority of hunters instead of the select few who bought in at the beginning. These highly desirable units could also be identified as once in a lifetime tags if so chosen.

Recognizing that a very small number of high point holders will be affected, but that they have made an investment of time and money. I would suggest that point holders holding greater than 10 points be allowed to use point banking for at most 2 years.

The sacrifice for the majority of hunters is that for two years there will be point creep in mid point units. However after two years mid point units may see a decrease in demand as more hunters may chose to hold points for a 10 point trophy unit. The benefit to the majority of hunters is that they now have an actual opportunity to hunt a true trophy unit.

The benefit to high point holders is that they would have an opportunity at a great mid point hunt and still hold points to be in the running for the "trophy" unit. The benefit to CPW is likely an increased number of applicants for trophy units leading to more revenue.

1. Point banking should be temporary and only for those holding greater than 10 points
2. Elk 3 pp, deer 4 pp, pronghorn 1 pp, bear 0
3. Yes
4. 40 years old

 

[sndmn11]

they now have an actual opportunity to hunt a true trophy unit.

The only reason people have the idea of a "true trophy unit" is because other people tell them to believe it. 99% of folks who apply for a hunt code above 5 points have never set foot there, let alone during a hunting season.

There's no reason to punish the rest of the hunters who know what they are applying for, why, and have laid eyes on their "trophy" animal previously.

Point banking will have a terrible trickle down effect on every hunt code.

 

[Bluumoon]

I honestly have no desire to hold out for the "trophy" units. However currently there is no incentive for people just getting into the point game to hold out for the high point units. Actually, my hope would be that more people would hold out for the current high point units if they capped them and the current mid point units would see a decreased demand allowing me to hunt good units more frequently.

I'm very much against banking as a long term solution.

 

[sndmn11]

I honestly have no desire to hold out for the "trophy" units. However currently there is no incentive for people just getting into the point game to hold out for the high point units. Actually, my hope would be that more people would hold out for the current high point units if they capped them and the current mid point units would see a decreased demand allowing me to hunt good units more frequently.

I'm very much against banking as a long term solution.

Yes there sure is; they changed the rules to toss a bunch more hunt codes into the hybrid draw. You can draw your first choice hunt code at any point past having like 5 preference points. That's great incentive for those who only want to hunt what the market desires the most.

 

[Bluumoon]

Yes there sure is; they changed the rules to toss a bunch more hunt codes into the hybrid draw. You can draw your first choice hunt code at any point past having like 5 preference points. That's great incentive for those who only want to hunt what the market desires the most.

Honestly, I had to look that up, some how I have missed it. So you're telling me there's a chance?
I can't even see saving up 5 points, OTC was painful last year with the number of people I ran into.

 

[wapitibob]

Point banking is the worst thing ever conceived for a draw system. The only people for it are those with upper point levels that finally came to the realization they won't draw a top end unit. Every time they apply under a point bank system someone under them gets kicked to the curb, and depending on the points they use, they can do it multiple times.

 

[sndmn11]

Honestly, I had to look that up, some how I have missed it. So you're telling me there's a chance?
I can't even see saving up 5 points, OTC was painful last year with the number of people I ran into.

Yes.

Not singling you out, but this is a good example of where I get a little frustrated with people advocating for change because most of those folks don't know the current rules.

 

[Ownthewest]

They need to quit figuring out how to help people save points and figure out how to make people burn them.
Make all hunt choices burn points. Make leftover/turn back tags burn points. That will solve a lot of the point issues.

 

[cnelk]

Let's see if staff recommendations hold true

 

[golfbum]

I’m all for it.

 

[Overdrive]

They need to quit figuring out how to help people save points and figure out how to make people burn them.
Make all hunt choices burn points. Make leftover/turn back tags burn points. That will solve a lot of the point issues.

Why should I lose a PP when I'm drawing 2nd choice under subscribed units as it is? And picking up the leftovers in those same units? Or I'm going OTC.

Punishing people for using the system that has been put in place for decades is not the answer because some one feels they're not getting their fair share. Do you not use the Tax code to your full advantage?

Let's hope CPW has more sense then the hunters wanting point banking or eliminating the PP system.

 

[sndmn11]

I think that the only "point issues" that are being seen right now are from the folks who CHOOSE to chase hunt codes that have been put on a pedestal and think they have "invested" in something.

The people who "invest" in their time afield and learn what is running around, then take that knowledge and apply it to reading draw recaps, seem to not have any "point issues".

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

You know how I view these types of threads?

You have only group that has been playing by the established rules for a very long time. You have another group that believes that things are not fair since they are not getting (near) instant gratification.

Aggrieved Group's Solution: Screw those that have been good little boys and girls by playing by the rules for a long time.

Not a surprise really as punishing those that consistently do the right thing is now our nation's past time.

 

[golfbum]

In my case, it has nothing to do by screwing those who have “played the rules” as I have as well. I have built a ton of points in many states while continuing to hunt every year.

My eyes were opened by Wyoming and the complete hose job they did on a lot of folks with 20+ moose points. I played by the rules that were set and they moved the goal posts to the point I have 21 worthless moose points. With that sob story out of the way, I understand what Wyoming did and don’t really disagree with it even though it all but killed my chance to use all those points. Things change and now more than ever things need to change. I have three young kids that unless things do change, will never get to hunt even a mid tear unit out of their home state.

I’m not sure what the answer is, but I support anything to help clear up the system even if that means hurting some of the mid tier odds for a short period.

 

[sndmn11]

I have three young kids that unless things do change, will never get to hunt even a mid tear unit out of their home state.

Wouldn't they have the same opportunity as all the other kids their age?

Assuming Colorado, when they are 11 or 12 they can apply, accrue a point, and hunt every single year until they choose to apply for a first-choice hunt code that they will draw. They can choose the latter when they are 40 or in their very first year. However, it isn't possible that they won't be able to draw any hunt code they desire if they live a normal lifetime unless they choose not to do so by using their points prematurely.

 

[golfbum]

Sure they will have the same opportunity as kids their exact same age which will be next to zero. If you don’t think those units you are so proud of using your 1-4 points won’t be affected by point creep you are wrong. Soon it will 2-5 for the same tag and will continue to go up. More people then ever are coming out west and more then ever are buying points. My kids are 7-5-3. By the time they can hunt those middle tier units will be out of reach for them.

What I fail to understand is someone who has burned points every 3/5 years is so against point banking but in the end you would have hunted those units as many or more times then someone who chose to build points (maybe chasing a tough unit or maybe because of some other reason) and then used a banking system.

If a unit takes 5 points (which likely has gone up from 2-3) over 25 years you hunted it 4-5 times at least. A 25 point guy would get to hunt it 3 times.

As an Utah resident I drew a mid tier archery deer tag in 2010 with 6pts (was in the bonus draw for the extra tags). That same tag today 13 years later requires 12 to be in the bonus draw.

Young kids have no chance

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

"Young kids have no chance". If that is the case, then pull your kids out of hunting since you

Sure they will have the same opportunity as kids their exact same age which will be next to zero. If you don’t think those units you are so proud of using your 1-4 points won’t be affected by point creep you are wrong. Soon it will 2-5 for the same tag and will continue to go up. More people then ever are coming out west and more then ever are buying points. My kids are 7-5-3. By the time they can hunt those middle tier units will be out of reach for them.

What I fail to understand is someone who has burned points every 3/5 years is so against point banking but in the end you would have hunted those units as many or more times then someone who chose to build points (maybe chasing a tough unit or maybe because of some other reason) and then used a banking system.

If a unit takes 5 points (which likely has gone up from 2-3) over 25 years you hunted it 4-5 times at least. A 25 point guy would get to hunt it 3 times.

As an Utah resident I drew a mid tier archery deer tag in 2010 with 6pts (was in the bonus draw for the extra tags). That same tag today 13 years later requires 12 to be in the bonus draw.

Young kids have no chance

Since you have the gift of foresight and have seen the demise of hunting, then do your kids and yourself a favor and do not teach them to hunt. After all, "young kids have no chance".

 

[golfbum]

"Young kids have no chance". If that is the case, then pull your kids out of hunting since you

Since you have the gift of foresight and have seen the demise of hunting, then do your kids and yourself a favor and do not teach them to hunt. After all, "young kids have no chance".

No thanks. I will just weigh my opinion on what I think will help not only my but all younger future hunters. Thanks for the advice however. SMH