Co point banking revisited…

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

No thanks. I will just weigh my opinion on what I think will help not only my but all younger future hunters. Thanks for the advice however. SMH

So is there now hope for kids and hunting? Or is it "young kids have no chance"? You flipped flopped pretty quickly there.

Want to help kids in general? Teach them to enjoy the hunt no matter what they are hunting, where they are hunting it, and who they are hunting with.

But that doesn't sit well with the entitled crowd and nor does it necessarily stroke someone's ego.

Here is some free advice. Play the points game as soon as possible if you've not already done so. Put your kids in at the earliest legal age to get their points ball rolling. Get all non-hunting family members to start building points so your kids can utilize them later in life. Go on as many youth hunts as possible and belligerently demand the top guides that volunteer their time for these hunts. Tell your kids to focus on education and get scholarships; this frees up money earmarked for college to buy more hunts for them. Video all hunts and post them all over social media in the hope that you can monetize them to buy future hunts. Video your kids cooking their own food in the "organic field to table" genre, post it all over social media, and hope they you can further monetize them to buy even more future hunts. Donate all of your tags to your kids where legal.

 

[golfbum]

So is there now hope for kids and hunting? Or is it "young kids have no chance"? You flipped flopped pretty quickly there.

Want to help kids in general? Teach them to enjoy the hunt no matter what they are hunting, where they are hunting it, and who they are hunting with.

But that doesn't sit well with the entitled crowd and nor does it necessarily stroke someone's ego.

Here is some free advice. Play the points game as soon as possible if you've not already done so. Put your kids in at the earliest legal age to get their points ball rolling. Get all non-hunting family members to start building points so your kids can utilize them later in life. Go on as many youth hunts as possible and belligerently demand the top guides that volunteer their time for these hunts. Tell your kids to focus on education and get scholarships; this frees up money earmarked for college to buy more hunts for them. Video all hunts and post them all over social media in the hope that you can monetize them to buy future hunts. Video your kids cooking their own food in the "organic field to table" genre, post it all over social media, and hope they you can further monetize them to buy even more future hunts.

Not even worth replying to.

I said pretty clearly kids don’t stand a chance when it comes to hunting mid tier units across the west with a system like Colorado currently has. That is the truth.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I sent an email as well…in opposition of point banking and pp sharing.

I also brought up the secondary and leftover draws. I would love to see Colorado adjust those opportunities as well making them similar to the 75/25 split in the primary.

 

[ColoradoV]

I believe status quo is best. Not much support in general, on the commission, or it looks like at the cpw for banking of points.

Or below is from the cpw. Pretty clear where they stand ..

Additionally, modifying the draws to benefit only 5% of our big game hunting customers, at the expense of predictability, opportunity, and simplicity for the other 95%, is not recommended.

For example, for elk applicants who applied over the last five years, there was an average of 13,367 applicants with 15 or more preference points, only about 5% of the total annual Elk applications. Even if one-third of these high-point holders used a point banking system, there would still be approximately 9,000 high-point holders pursuing less than 1% of our elk licenses.

The Division and prior Wildlife Commission already experienced extreme customer dissatisfaction when a point banking system was implemented in the past, providing insightful lessons for what could happen if point banking were to be implemented again. However, if the Commission is not satisfied with a status quo decision and would like to implement some type of a preference point banking system again, staff have developed two possible preference point banking systems to consider, outlined below.

 

[sndmn11]

Sure they will have the same opportunity as kids their exact same age which will be next to zero. If you don’t think those units you are so proud of using your 1-4 points won’t be affected by point creep you are wrong. Soon it will 2-5 for the same tag and will continue to go up. More people then ever are coming out west and more then ever are buying points. My kids are 7-5-3. By the time they can hunt those middle tier units will be out of reach for them.

What I fail to understand is someone who has burned points every 3/5 years is so against point banking but in the end you would have hunted those units as many or more times then someone who chose to build points (maybe chasing a tough unit or maybe because of some other reason) and then used a banking system.

If a unit takes 5 points (which likely has gone up from 2-3) over 25 years you hunted it 4-5 times at least. A 25 point guy would get to hunt it 3 times.

As an Utah resident I drew a mid tier archery deer tag in 2010 with 6pts (was in the bonus draw for the extra tags). That same tag today 13 years later requires 12 to be in the bonus draw.

Young kids have no chance

Point holders aren't immortal, there will be a significant portion who no longer apply due to attrition. Point retraction will occur when the boomers vacate.

Hopefully, we can help you understand...
-A 25 point holder connects with a 0 point holder to apply for a 5 points unit.
-They become 12 each and take two tags.
-If they were REALLY smart they'd grab another person and be 3 8.33333 point holders.
-If they were AMAZINGLY smart, they'd grab a fourth and be 4 6.25 holders.

In each scenario the needed amount of points goes up because the number of available tags goes down after they redeem their bank. If the rules changed to banking, all my cousins, in-laws, deceased relatives, hair cutter chick, neighbors, etc., would be getting points from me for their birthday.

The result will be that a majority of tags will be drawn by those who party bank, and you'll see multiple point increases in point creep just like how compounding interest works.

 

[golfbum]

Point holders aren't immortal, there will be a significant portion who no longer apply due to attrition. Point retraction will occur when the boomers vacate.

Hopefully, we can help you understand...
-A 25 point holder connects with a 0 point holder to apply for a 5 points unit.
-They become 12 each and take two tags.
-If they were REALLY smart they'd grab another person and be 3 8.33333 point holders.
-If they were AMAZINGLY smart, they'd grab a fourth and be 4 6.25 holders.

In each scenario the needed amount of points goes up because the number of available tags goes down after they redeem their bank. If the rules changed to banking, all my cousins, in-laws, deceased relatives, hair cutter chick, neighbors, etc., would be getting points from me for their birthday.

The result will be that a majority of tags will be drawn by those who party bank, and you'll see multiple point increases in point creep just like how compounding interest works.

Point banking and point sharing are different.

If point sharing came to be I would gladly give up the the opportunity to hunt my Colorado deer/antelope (can draw any tag in the state I want) for a chance to hunt a middle of the road unit with my kids!

 

[Jethro]

Point holders aren't immortal, there will be a significant portion who no longer apply due to attrition. Point retraction will occur when the boomers vacate.

Hopefully, we can help you understand...
-A 25 point holder connects with a 0 point holder to apply for a 5 points unit.
-They become 12 each and take two tags.
-If they were REALLY smart they'd grab another person and be 3 8.33333 point holders.
-If they were AMAZINGLY smart, they'd grab a fourth and be 4 6.25 holders.

In each scenario the needed amount of points goes up because the number of available tags goes down after they redeem their bank. If the rules changed to banking, all my cousins, in-laws, deceased relatives, hair cutter chick, neighbors, etc., would be getting points from me for their birthday.

The result will be that a majority of tags will be drawn by those who party bank, and you'll see multiple point increases in point creep just like how compounding interest works.

Your examples are point averaging, not point banking.

 

[sndmn11]

Your examples are point averaging, not point banking.

You're right!

 

[sndmn11]

Point banking and point sharing are different.

If point sharing came to be I would gladly give up the the opportunity to hunt my Colorado deer/antelope (can draw any tag in the state I want) for a chance to hunt a middle of the road unit with my kids!

You are right, I lumped the two together.

Point banking seems worse because one isn't zeroing their points. If you are worried about your kids, why would you want points to stay in the system?

 

[golfbum]

If you read my first post, I’m not saying this would be fix (I don’t know what is) but something needs to change.

Point banking may influence draw odds for a short time but in the long run I could see how it may (it may not as well) lower the point creep that plagues Colorado.

The top units will always have a ton of point hoarders (like myself) chasing them. But if I could point bank I may be tempted to go hunt a middle of the road unit a few years in a row then I would be out of the point banking. The same could be true for a guy with 8-10 points he may choose to hunt a 2-3 point unit twice then he will no longer have points. I could see how it may work…..

 

[Lytro]

Why not just cube points instead? It would give anyone a chance to draw a prime tag and points would still hold value in what is currently considered no man's land.

 

[golfbum]

I could get on board with that! ^

 

[realunlucky]

Why not just cube points instead? It would give anyone a chance to draw a prime tag and points would still hold value in what is currently considered no man's land.

Cubed points odds aren't hardly better than straight preference.

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[Antares]

Threads like this make me thankful Alaska doesn't engage in this type of foolishness.

 

[Lytro]

Cubed points odds aren't hardly better than straight preference.

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I disagree. Here's an example of draw results using cubed points.

 

[sndmn11]

If you read my first post, I’m not saying this would be fix (I don’t know what is) but something needs to change.

Point banking may influence draw odds for a short time but in the long run I could see how it may (it may not as well) lower the point creep that plagues Colorado.

The top units will always have a ton of point hoarders (like myself) chasing them. But if I could point bank I may be tempted to go hunt a middle of the road unit a few years in a row then I would be out of the point banking. The same could be true for a guy with 8-10 points he may choose to hunt a 2-3 point unit twice then he will no longer have points. I could see how it may work…..

I did read your first post, I've read all your posts. You are advocating for change to fit your new priorities rather than staying committed to your original goal.

What you described is exactly why it would accelerate the needed points for hunt codes. If a person uses a portion of their points for 4 years in a row, that's four other people who have to sit out, and accrue a point doing so. Currently, the same person with excess points only requires one person to accrue a point.

If you are worried about "top tier" and "mid tier" accessibility for your kids, advocating for ways to empty people's points versus sustain them would be worth considering.

 

[realunlucky]

If you are worried about "top tier" and "mid tier" accessibility for your kids, advocating for ways to empty people's points versus sustain them would be worth considering.

Excellent point

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[Hnthrdr]

I sent an email as well…in opposition of point banking and pp sharing.

I also brought up the secondary and leftover draws. I would love to see Colorado adjust those opportunities as well making them similar to the 75/25 split in the primary.

Shoot we need to go for the real goal, second draw is Res only and left overs are res only for 24 hours then NR can have a crack at them

 

[sndmn11]

Shoot we need to go for the real goal, second draw is Res only and left overs are res only for 24 hours then NR can have a crack at them

I still wish a person could apply for 10 hunt codes per species, and those are the ONLY ten they are eligible to purchase via any means.

Give people an incentive to scout and learn a unit or two, and make the odds of grabbing a reissue much friendlier.

 

[wapitibob]

The only group more self centered than hunters, is hunters with points.