Cliven Bundy Situation

[BRobertson]

The responses here lead me to understand the III% movement (look it up). Bundy may be wrong, hard to say. If he is, the government should handle it like every other person that they think owes them money. The armed militaristic response and calling Bundy a terrorist are part of a far worse problem than a rancher not paying his fees. I think you have to be over 40 to understand how much freedom we have lost over the last 20-30 years. This is not the same country anymore.

You are probably correct on the age thing!!
I keep thinking that I am glad I am as old as I am!! This country is going downhill fast!!
My Dad, always tells me that he is glad he is as old as he is!! He is 94, he was in the 8th Air Force in England, doing the bombing runs over Germany in WW II.
He gets so mad now when we talk on the phone about what is going on with His country, he feels betrayed by His government. He was so mad when the asshole
Obama was standing on the graves of 40,000 Americans in France and apologizing for our "arrogance", my Mom thought she was going to have to take him to the
hospital!!

Bob

 

[nflesher]

Telling that these "standoffs" happen under liberal rule.

The almighty gov is very good at smearing a persons name and then sending in the troops to sort things out when they get uppity.

I was an adult and still live a few miles south of Ruby Ridge. Mr. Weaver can tell you a thing or two about being made out to be a bad guy then having snipers posted around his home when he refused to dance to their tune.

I heard a thing or two about a place called Waco as well.

As soon as the BLM sent in SWAT and snipers, I smelled a rotten fish. Far too many dirty politicians with grimy tentacles in this mess to just up and say that Mr. Bundy is a no good so and so.

Free speech zones??? Bullshit!!!

Just why exactly do we have so many government agencies with so much firepower. The BLM has snipers? Really?

How many want to bet money that if patriots hadn't marched in there to make the feds back off that Mr. Bundy would already be dead?

You young guys had better wake up and stop smelling the government propaganda. Charging him a "tax" and getting a bought judge to back it up is EXACTLY the kind of move a crooked politician or three would pull to get their way.

What he said. Now they teach kids in public school that you should give up freedom to be safe. BULLSHIT! Anybody on here that thinks our government is perfectly ok in what they are doing proves to me how idiots like Pelosi and Reid stay in office! MEN DIED for the freedom we have and you cowards are drinking the government kool aid! UNREAL

 

[PA 5-0]

You are probably correct on the age thing!!
I keep thinking that I am glad I am as old as I am!! This country is going downhill fast!!
My Dad, always tells me that he is glad he is as old as he is!! He is 94, he was in the 8th Air Force in England, doing the bombing runs over Germany in WW II.
He gets so mad now when we talk on the phone about what is going on with His country, he feels betrayed by His government. He was so mad when the asshole
Obama was standing on the graves of 40,000 Americans in France and apologizing for our "arrogance", my Mom thought she was going to have to take him to the
hospital!!

Bob

On my behalf, plz thank your Dad for his service and patriotism. Every French citizen would be speaking German today if it wasn't for bad ass mother f'ers like him.

 

[Larry Bartlett]

self entitlement is the American way....or at least that what history teaches us. He's wrong in the conservative sector and right in the Liberal arena. In truth he's only protecting is own heritage.

I tried that when I was 20 y/o after my dad had taught me to fill the freezer all year long regardless of the state or federal laws for closed seasons. When i was a young adult that's what I considered my right. We don't have a vision outside of that which has always been done the same away by our peeps.

I guess i see it both ways, but the law will settle it in their favor as always.

He should be asking the Native indians for permission to graze IMHO.

 

[BRobertson]

On my behalf, plz thank your Dad for his service and patriotism. Every French citizen would be speaking German today if it wasn't for bad ass mother f'ers like him.

I will do that when I speak with him this weekend!!

Thank you,

Bob

 

[a3dhunter]

edited:
The man chooses not to pay the fees, in my mind it's the same as me refusing to pay taxes because I don't agree with them, or refusing to pay car license fees....he's wrong.

 

[jcodyc40]

I hunt public land therefore I would like that public land protected and managed for the good of all the public not just one guy or one industry. Most stock growers in western states rely on public land, I personaly don't like it because if we removed all the cattle and sheep off this land just think how much more wild game the land could support. I don't want to see solar or wind farms either, I just want to see wild game. If Mr. Bundy is allowed to graze his cattle on federal land without paying the grazing fees then where does it end? A precedence would be set why would any other stockgrower continue to pay if the the controlling agency isn't allowed to enforce their rules? If my family had been logging on federal forest land for 5 generations does that give me the right to clearcut the side of a mountain and to hell with everyone else? Does everyone with Native American blood have the right to do whatever they want on public land because they had that right before the white man stepped foot on this continent let alone wrote the US Constitution? How cool would it be to hike in 10 miles, spend 5 days working you butt off, be 15 seconds away from the perfect shot on a monster bull just to have some jackwagon blow through on his quad because he gives less than a damn about your rights and there is no one to enforce any rules on public land?
I won't get into the state of Our Country too much other then I think it is the greatest country in the world and if you don't like it don't let the door hit you ass on the way out! Same thing I say to people who move to Montana and complain about how everything and everyone here sucks, quit whining and work to make it better. No one forces you to live here.
By the way this is my opinion and if you don't agree I won't call you an idiot or coward like some others here. One of the things that makes this country great is tolerance and the willingness to listen to different opinions and come up with a common solution.

 

[PA 5-0]

edited:
The man chooses not to pay the fees, in my mind it's the same as me refusing to pay taxes because I don't agree with them, or refusing to pay car license fees....he's wrong.

#1-I think we have become incredibly comfortable with paying all these FEES.

#2-If I could run a comparison by you guys because I am at a loss.

Nevada cattle dude admits he owes about $300,000(without penalties, fees, etc). He has tried to pay the state, who's power he recognizes, but they cannot accept the money. For this situation, he receives SWAT teams surrounding his shit.

AL Sharpton's NAN now owes $1.9 million in back taxes. And he still owes $880,000 from his Pres campaign. For this, Al gets repeatedly invited to the White House and has the great honor of the President and the US Attorney General speaking this week at a conference held by the very NAN that is tax delinquent.

I have to be missing something.

 

[TEmbry]

#1-I think we have become incredibly comfortable with paying all these FEES.

#2-If I could run a comparison by you guys because I am at a loss.

Nevada cattle dude admits he owes about $300,000(without penalties, fees, etc). He has tried to pay the state, who's power he recognizes, but they cannot accept the money. For this situation, he receives SWAT teams surrounding his shit.

AL Sharpton's NAN now owes $1.9 million in back taxes. And he still owes $880,000 from his Pres campaign. For this, Al gets repeatedly invited to the White House and has the great honor of the President and the US Attorney General speaking this week at a conference held by the very NAN that is tax delinquent.

I have to be missing something.

Comparing one situation where a person is in the wrong to another situation where the person is even more in the wrong... that doesn't make the first person in the right all of the sudden.

He's trying to make a point, which the federal government then returned the favor. He needs to pay the fees to the correct entity, or go buy his own land and avoid said fees from using OUR land.

 

[Floorguy]

edited:
The man chooses not to pay the fees, in my mind it's the same as me refusing to pay taxes because I don't agree with them, or refusing to pay car license fees....he's wrong.

would you pay your car registration if you had to sign a contract before hand that said you could no longer use the road to drive on and you could only have one tire?

 

[Floorguy]

Comparing one situation where a person is in the wrong to another situation where the person is even more in the wrong... that doesn't make the first person in the right all of the sudden.

He's trying to make a point, which the federal government then returned the favor. He needs to pay the fees to the correct entity, or go buy his own land and avoid said fees from using OUR land.

if he signs the contract agreeing to the terms in order to pay the fees it will mean his ranch will be closed in less than 2 years

 

[Darren Best]

The questions that needs to be asked are, is the grazing fees even legal to begin with?

Was it legal for the BLM to confiscate the land from the state of Nevada?

Why did local authorities refuse to participate in the raid?

Why is the state claiming that Mr. Bundy owes no fees.

If Mr. Bundy is such a free loader, why are the other ranchers in the area supporting him?

Why is the BLM killing the very same turtles they are claiming to be trying to save?

Why steal his cattle to pay for his supposed taxes or grazing fees he owes, (at an enormous cost to taxpayers) then offer to split the proceeds with him, then kill most of the cattle they rounded up?

Why deploy snipers to collect taxes or fees supposedly owed? This move was meant to legally murder him, a favorite tactic of liberal politicians.

Come on guys, think. This whole thing stinks worse than a 4 day old road kill skunk in July.

The fastest way to gain sympathy for your illegality is to make your enemy look like a free loading jerkoff law breaker.

He owes 1.2 million in taxes, he is a free loading thief that refuses to pay his fair share!!!

Think beyond what you are spoon fed by the state run media.

I will be 48 here in a few weeks and I am astounded by how much freedom we have lost in the last forty years. Even more astounded by how few people actually take notice or even care.

It's pretty obvious that the Bundy ranch is being forced out of business so a solar farm can be put in and Harry "Greed" Reid is behind the whole fiasco. Coincidence that the guy that is currently in charge of the BLM used to work for Harry Reid. Harry Reid's son is all chummy with the company that wants to put the solar farm in.

Smell the stench of corruption yet?

Does this serve the public good and best use of this land?

 

[djsmith46]

edited:
The man chooses not to pay the fees, in my mind it's the same as me refusing to pay taxes because I don't agree with them, or refusing to pay car license fees....he's wrong.

There may be nothing wrong with you refusing to do something another human, or group of humans tells you to do. Perhaps even more so if they changed the rules along the way. IE, you didn't have to pay license fees up until the point you were 30 years old, then all of a sudden, license fees, just for example.

Point being if there aren't brave souls willing to stand up and refuse to follow every governmental mandate, etc then we may not have a government that does in fact work for us, we are simply slaves to our government. I also don't want any of my fellow countrymen to resort to the most intellectually dishonest argument that comes to my mind....."well I had to pay so.....so should he!" Look at the repercussions of not paying the Feds! Mr Bundy and friends had to fend off armed federal agents. Meanwhile, shamelessly, like so many others in this country I too tuck my tail between my legs and live vicariously through this old timer, who right or wrong had the balls to stand up to at the very least a thoughtless act of intimidation by the BLM.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

" BLM is actually a sub-corporation of UNITED STATES INCORPORATED, a private foreign owned off-shore corporation since its last incorporation in 1925, copyrighted, trademarked and registered in Puerto Rico).Under the Reorganization Act of Washington District of Columbia, by it’s
own private business charter, neither the BLM, nor any other
federal/corporate agency has lawful/legal authority, jurisdiction or
interstate nexus within the 50 state geographical landmass.
*BLM, is actually classified as an: “Agent of Foreign Principle”, under the
intergovernmental Personnel Act.
*In other words, they don’t represent the Constitutional Republic or the
interests of the American People but rather, a foreign owned principle
i.e., the international banking/military corporate cartel of London City,
England known as Crown Corporation as their supreme authority.

*This has been openly admitted and exposed through Supreme Court cases since
and even before 1938.
People, this country is being sold out, piecemeal: Moapa Paiute Tribe, LADWP and First Solar Break Ground on 250MW Solar Project (NASDAQ:FSLR)"
Kelly Gordon III


There is a LOT more at stake here than whether or not this man is lawful. Its more a matter of should he qualify as being unlawful? The government can pass all the laws it wants but its up to us to say enough or slowly steadily slip into a state where we no longer can call ourselves free men. We all have our breaking points and this is Bundy's and a bunch of his supporters.

 

[Ryan Avery]

There is a LOT more at stake here than whether or not this man is lawful. Its more a matter of should he qualify as being unlawful? The government can pass all the laws it wants but its up to us to say enough or slowly steadily slip into a state where we no longer can call ourselves free men. We all have our breaking points and this is Bundy's and a bunch of his supporters.

Very True! OUR government will get as big and corrupt as we the people let it. Unfortunately I think this was the first of many conflicts. This did highlight land use/ownership issues. I think States will start to make a stand and that's when things will get interesting.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

If state politicians know what is good for them or if they are actually doing their job and representing the people then you are absolutely correct Ryan. I have not seen the level of civil unrest and dissatisfaction with the federal government that we currently have in this country in my life time. Change us coming and unfortunately I do not believe that it will be an easy change free of blood shed. I certainly hope it won't amount to another civil war. I am almost certain that there will be more instances such as this that will turn out poorly, like Waco did, and that will incite the people who are already on edge to affect change. I read an article today on a similar Federal land grab in the works here in Missouri and Arkansas, it will not be tolerated here as several state militias (one with 30,000+ members) have already stepped up and said so. Enough is enough already!

 

[Floorguy]

Very True! OUR government will get as big and corrupt as we the people let it. Unfortunately I think this was the first of many conflicts. This did highlight land use/ownership issues. I think States will start to make a stand and that's when things will get interesting.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the TX/OK border issues and the private land that is owned along the river.

 

[a3dhunter]

Rules/laws get changed all the time. Fees go up, fees get added, life goes on.

He can choose to do something else, whether he likes it or not.

If he didn't like the law, he should have worked to change the law rather than ignoring it and doing whatever he wants for 20 years.

Just because you've done something for half your life, doesn't give you the right to do it forever.

At some point, people that had never paid taxes had to start paying taxes.

Use fees keep getting put in place, whether it is grazing fees, camp ground fees, lake fees, access fees......we may not like it, but if we just choose to not pay we are subject to the fines and actions associated with that action.

I look at Romans 13 when I have a problem with government authority. Either work legally to change the "authority", submit to it, or move would be my thoughts.

It's a sad situation IMO, he knew right from wrong, he chose wrong. He may feel he had no other choice and that he could get away with it, but he wasn't in the right.
The government is just making it worse with how they have handled it, making more decisions and taking actions that are wrong as well.

Lose/lose situation.

 

[gelton]

Rules/laws get changed all the time. Fees go up, fees get added, life goes on.

He can choose to do something else, whether he likes it or not.

If he didn't like the law, he should have worked to change the law rather than ignoring it and doing whatever he wants for 20 years.

Just because you've done something for half your life, doesn't give you the right to do it forever.

At some point, people that had never paid taxes had to start paying taxes.

Use fees keep getting put in place, whether it is grazing fees, camp ground fees, lake fees, access fees......we may not like it, but if we just choose to not pay we are subject to the fines and actions associated with that action.

I look at Romans 13 when I have a problem with government authority. Either work legally to change the "authority", submit to it, or move would be my thoughts.

It's a sad situation IMO, he knew right from wrong, he chose wrong. He may feel he had no other choice and that he could get away with it, but he wasn't in the right.
The government is just making it worse with how they have handled it, making more decisions and taking actions that are wrong as well.

Lose/lose situation.

Romans 13 was Hitlers favorite verse. Taking a stand and being a thief or tax cheat is two totally different things. There were 52 ranchers working that area and the BLM bankrupted 51 of em' it should be clear what the BLM's goal is and it has nothing to do with protecting a desert tortoise.

 

[wyelkhunter]

All parties in this situation are in the wrong. Bundy reacted wrong to what the BLM was doing and The BLM did so much wrong it would take to long to list.

As far as law goes, I think people are just tired of this country picking and choosing what laws to enforce and fallow. Hell it says in the constitution that the Fed. gov can not hold/own land. Look at what we are allowing with illegals coming to our country. Look at the health care law. A person can go on and on. I personally feel there needs to be more of a revolution to get things back to what this country should be.

I also don't agree with how Bundy acted. We have BLM leases and every year they try to make decisions and do things that are not right. But we still pay our fees. We fight back in ways that will not affect our permits to get things changed.

It is also law that there WILL be grazing on Fed. land (notice I didn't say our land cause it isn't our land. Any of you that say it is show me a title with your name on it or try to sell your share of it)