Darren Best
WKR
Bingo!
Cliven Bundy Situation
- Thread starter PA 5-0
- Start date
Bingo!
Broz
WKR
This is not my writing, but that of a young woman that was raised in the west and obviously well educated with a good understanding of what is really going on. Also what is important once you look past the smoke screen. I feel these words are spot on and for those of you who choose to feel otherwise, if we do not change the current pattern of control of "Our Public Lands" The day will come when you nor I nor anyone will set foot on them again. Not for Grazing, Not for Backpacking, Hunting, Hiking, Fishing, Photography, or any form of use or recreation.
I suggest you read this brilliant lady's words with an open mind and head the warning with in them.
Jeff
And I Quote her via Copy and Paste.
" Here are some facts & food for thought, boys...take it or don't....
I grew up in the rural West of ranchers, like Cliven Bundy, whose livelihoods rest on their OWNERSHIP of property "rights" to graze, forage & water on the public lands. This is a place where families trace their lineage to the first American settlers to hustle a livelihood out of deserts & sage and claim long histories of hard work & physical & financial investment in the necessary improvements needed to make an arid land productive. This is a place where families claim histories & memories on the landscape far far deeper than any sort of federal presence, let alone assistance, other than a claim made on a piece of paper.
In recent decades, outside elites have come to covet this land for its scenic wildness, open spaces & resources, & the federal government, revealing the extent of its corruption, has thrown the weight of its power behind these elites rather than behind the ordinary, laboring people who by birthright & property "rights" in land-use ought to be the rightful beneficiaries. The Enlightenment thinkers, including Voltaire & Locke, who greatlyinspired our founding documents argued that people organize themselves under governments with the understanding that governments exist to protect the property & liberty of the individual against hostile, covetous & authoritarian elements, foreign & domestic. Is it not obvious that this federal government has both entered into a contract with, & become a part of, the same forces it was created to protect us from? The creation of public lands, in the first place, as a government gesture of mistrust of "the people," government claim on "the people's" natural resources, & government usurpation of the very thing that was to give us a solid stake in our own freedom (property rights to the land) demonstrates just how long we have been derelict in our civic duty (civic virtue / civic republicanism) to reign-in this growing beast...
One thing that the mainstream media & those outside this culture need to understand is that Mr. Bundy OWNS (as in a commodity) "rights" (as in property) to graze on the public lands in question. This is how ranching is done in the West, especially in the arid West of Nevada, Utah & Arizona. A rancher owns certain usage rights that cannot be taken away but can, evidently, be undercut by federal regulations & restrictions. Accordingly, over the past 25+ years, the BLM has been driving ranchers (& farmers) out of business across the West by using the Endangered Species Act & the opinions of activist conservationists to severely limit the acreage & number of animals allowed to graze. These restrictions, invented by the BLM outside any checks & balances embedded in the public, are stated in the individual contracts that every rancher must sign to pay his fees. Both critical & sympathetic media commentators have chastised Mr Bundy for allegedly breaking the law by not paying his fees ( though it is a bureaucratic regulation we are talking about, not a law). In their ignorance, however, these individuals have failed to recognize that to pay his fees to the BLM, Mr. Bundy would have to sign a contract that would break him (no signature, no fees accepted). Similar contracts & government regulations have driven nearly all other area ranchers out of business. To sign this type of contract & pay the fees which make it valid would have been nothing short of the relinquishment of one's livelihood....this is what Bundy refused to do as an act of civil disobedience to an unjust agency & system out to uproot him.
Another little publicized fact is that tortoises eat cattle dung & have thrived since the introduction of cattle to the arid West (a University of Arizona study readily available on the internet clearly states this fact). To put it bluntly, the more grazing the cattle do on the public land, the more the tortoise has to eat.
Furthermore, the idea that Bundy does not recognize the authority of the United States is simply asinine. He recognizes the US quite patriotically, as is evidenced in numerous interviews & the prominant display of American symbols on his ranch & during the liberation of his cattle. He does not recognize, however, federal jurisdiction over the bulk of the land mass in Nevada. The administration of that land & its resources, he believes, rightfully belongs to the state in which it is enclosed....just as the lands east of Colorado are administered by the states in which they are enclosed....& Article 1:8; 17, the Supremacy Clause, Article 6:2, & Amendment 9 & 10 do give him grounds to at least argue this point.
Also, it is important to understand that the passion being expressed by supporters is not just about the injustice being done to the Bundy family. Certain politicians collaborating with big money environmental groups (funded & led by "green capitalists") not infrequently use the BLM to regulate & strong arm rural economies out of existence. This is working to the end of clearing the land for the creation of an elite "green" energy empire. At the very least, the transformation of the West's public lands ought to concern the average citizen for the reason that food & energy costs will rise (coal mines & power plants are similarly under attack). Where are we going to get our beef & produce with all of these western ranchers & farmers upended by government regulation? ...& energy? Wind mills & solar panels (both unfriendly to wildlife) can not match the power output of coal, not even close.
There is something very dirty & corrupt going on here. It is lining the pocketbooks of certain politicians & green investors at the expense of all of us; there is something seriously awry in this country when the federal government sends in a heavily armed military force to harass a family, take their cattle and then prevent the liberation of the dehydrated, wounded & broken animals who happened to survive an unspeakably cruel roundup....that the federal government via BLM initiated & with the allocation of several million dollars (somebody fact check- I am hearing that as much as $10 million was allocated?) So, remind me, why is the FBI so concerned with Mr. Bundy's supporters? Who are the real out of control, corrupt & threatening forces in this story? Who is it that truly needs to be reigned in & brought to justice?"
I suggest you read this brilliant lady's words with an open mind and head the warning with in them.
Jeff
And I Quote her via Copy and Paste.
" Here are some facts & food for thought, boys...take it or don't....
I grew up in the rural West of ranchers, like Cliven Bundy, whose livelihoods rest on their OWNERSHIP of property "rights" to graze, forage & water on the public lands. This is a place where families trace their lineage to the first American settlers to hustle a livelihood out of deserts & sage and claim long histories of hard work & physical & financial investment in the necessary improvements needed to make an arid land productive. This is a place where families claim histories & memories on the landscape far far deeper than any sort of federal presence, let alone assistance, other than a claim made on a piece of paper.
In recent decades, outside elites have come to covet this land for its scenic wildness, open spaces & resources, & the federal government, revealing the extent of its corruption, has thrown the weight of its power behind these elites rather than behind the ordinary, laboring people who by birthright & property "rights" in land-use ought to be the rightful beneficiaries. The Enlightenment thinkers, including Voltaire & Locke, who greatlyinspired our founding documents argued that people organize themselves under governments with the understanding that governments exist to protect the property & liberty of the individual against hostile, covetous & authoritarian elements, foreign & domestic. Is it not obvious that this federal government has both entered into a contract with, & become a part of, the same forces it was created to protect us from? The creation of public lands, in the first place, as a government gesture of mistrust of "the people," government claim on "the people's" natural resources, & government usurpation of the very thing that was to give us a solid stake in our own freedom (property rights to the land) demonstrates just how long we have been derelict in our civic duty (civic virtue / civic republicanism) to reign-in this growing beast...
One thing that the mainstream media & those outside this culture need to understand is that Mr. Bundy OWNS (as in a commodity) "rights" (as in property) to graze on the public lands in question. This is how ranching is done in the West, especially in the arid West of Nevada, Utah & Arizona. A rancher owns certain usage rights that cannot be taken away but can, evidently, be undercut by federal regulations & restrictions. Accordingly, over the past 25+ years, the BLM has been driving ranchers (& farmers) out of business across the West by using the Endangered Species Act & the opinions of activist conservationists to severely limit the acreage & number of animals allowed to graze. These restrictions, invented by the BLM outside any checks & balances embedded in the public, are stated in the individual contracts that every rancher must sign to pay his fees. Both critical & sympathetic media commentators have chastised Mr Bundy for allegedly breaking the law by not paying his fees ( though it is a bureaucratic regulation we are talking about, not a law). In their ignorance, however, these individuals have failed to recognize that to pay his fees to the BLM, Mr. Bundy would have to sign a contract that would break him (no signature, no fees accepted). Similar contracts & government regulations have driven nearly all other area ranchers out of business. To sign this type of contract & pay the fees which make it valid would have been nothing short of the relinquishment of one's livelihood....this is what Bundy refused to do as an act of civil disobedience to an unjust agency & system out to uproot him.
Another little publicized fact is that tortoises eat cattle dung & have thrived since the introduction of cattle to the arid West (a University of Arizona study readily available on the internet clearly states this fact). To put it bluntly, the more grazing the cattle do on the public land, the more the tortoise has to eat.
Furthermore, the idea that Bundy does not recognize the authority of the United States is simply asinine. He recognizes the US quite patriotically, as is evidenced in numerous interviews & the prominant display of American symbols on his ranch & during the liberation of his cattle. He does not recognize, however, federal jurisdiction over the bulk of the land mass in Nevada. The administration of that land & its resources, he believes, rightfully belongs to the state in which it is enclosed....just as the lands east of Colorado are administered by the states in which they are enclosed....& Article 1:8; 17, the Supremacy Clause, Article 6:2, & Amendment 9 & 10 do give him grounds to at least argue this point.
Also, it is important to understand that the passion being expressed by supporters is not just about the injustice being done to the Bundy family. Certain politicians collaborating with big money environmental groups (funded & led by "green capitalists") not infrequently use the BLM to regulate & strong arm rural economies out of existence. This is working to the end of clearing the land for the creation of an elite "green" energy empire. At the very least, the transformation of the West's public lands ought to concern the average citizen for the reason that food & energy costs will rise (coal mines & power plants are similarly under attack). Where are we going to get our beef & produce with all of these western ranchers & farmers upended by government regulation? ...& energy? Wind mills & solar panels (both unfriendly to wildlife) can not match the power output of coal, not even close.
There is something very dirty & corrupt going on here. It is lining the pocketbooks of certain politicians & green investors at the expense of all of us; there is something seriously awry in this country when the federal government sends in a heavily armed military force to harass a family, take their cattle and then prevent the liberation of the dehydrated, wounded & broken animals who happened to survive an unspeakably cruel roundup....that the federal government via BLM initiated & with the allocation of several million dollars (somebody fact check- I am hearing that as much as $10 million was allocated?) So, remind me, why is the FBI so concerned with Mr. Bundy's supporters? Who are the real out of control, corrupt & threatening forces in this story? Who is it that truly needs to be reigned in & brought to justice?"
- Banned
- #204
JWP58
WKR
I hope all public land are sold off and are locked up. Nobody likes public land, and them there gubbments is abusing us!!!!
We sovereign!!! Liberty!!! Freedom!!!! What I says is mine.....is mine cause I says!!!!
We sovereign!!! Liberty!!! Freedom!!!! What I says is mine.....is mine cause I says!!!!
The interesting thing about "property rights" is that it takes a government to recognize them. If you don't have a government recognized property right, then the only way to "own" something is by force. Once property rights are recognized, short of a few limited instances (ESA???, etc.), to "take" these recognized property rights requires "just compensation"..... and that is where the sh...t hits the fan.
As to public lands, this group as a whole claims to make use of these public lands for many recreational and hunting purposes. The public lands benefit you directly and indirectly. Obviously, the rub is when we no longer have access for their use due to the "green" ideologies. Tangled web... hell yes!!
We all want our cake and eat it to. One of my favorite sayings is: "be careful for what you want as you may get it".
Broz, thanks for bringing up the intellectually stimulating post.... should give people a reason to pause and not take things for granted. We are all to fat and happy unless we have had the misfortune of getting punched in the nose by an agenda that is not necessarily driven by altruistic purposes. Way too much thinking for a Sunday morning.
As to public lands, this group as a whole claims to make use of these public lands for many recreational and hunting purposes. The public lands benefit you directly and indirectly. Obviously, the rub is when we no longer have access for their use due to the "green" ideologies. Tangled web... hell yes!!
We all want our cake and eat it to. One of my favorite sayings is: "be careful for what you want as you may get it".
Broz, thanks for bringing up the intellectually stimulating post.... should give people a reason to pause and not take things for granted. We are all to fat and happy unless we have had the misfortune of getting punched in the nose by an agenda that is not necessarily driven by altruistic purposes. Way too much thinking for a Sunday morning.
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