Cliff Grays Podcast with Aaron Davidson

[MtnW]

I have watched portions of two of Aaron Davidson’s interviews. My opinion is he is just another “Carnival Barker” with a very self serving agenda. People can’t see through his B.S. is beyond me??How many times in 30 minutes does he say “ oh my customers are CEO’s, rich business people, yada yada yada? It is so obvious all he is saying is , pay to much for one of my product and you can be in this elite crowd of inexperienced, uninformed buyers with more money than brains or common sense. I also listened to another of his infomercials where he can’t even remember the shot he made/missed on a brown/grizzly bear, like he is such an experienced well traveled hunter. I guarantee I can remember every shot I have made on a dangerous game animal whether it be mountain grizzly or cape buffalo. I find Mr. Davidson a overhyped, self serving, arrogant, condescending, conman. He is about the last person I would purchase a rifle or scope from, and about the last person I would want to share a hunting camp with.

 

[wind gypsy]

I heard him boasting other companies follow his lead on everything they produce. Do they?

He mentioned examples, i dont recall "everything" being mentioned but it seems many companies would have been better served if they paid attention sooner. Negative comb (without drop at heel at least) stocks - the market has been sleeping on this for over a decade, now starting to follow.

Ballistic range finders - i wouldn't consider one without a good solver built in now. I'd say they led..

Custom turrets. Ya think this has caught on?

I also heard him boast that his customers fly in private aircraft to come and buy his products. That’s nice. Don’t care about any of that really.

He also mentioned his customers are winners and take the biggest and best game out there. By spending how much money to achieve such accomplishments? Of course, if you have so much money you can’t spend it all in one lifetime, you can buy your way into a nice experience and trophy. I’m not opposed to rich people buying what they want. However, his marketing message there didn’t strike home with me…at all. Because that’s not the hunting I do.

Again, didn’t care for his message and condescending tone. So, I turned it off.

I see that as mostly the illustration for why they are able to spend a shit ton of $ on R&D and pushing the envelope.

 

[Flyjunky]

It makes perfect sense to me why these guys are willing to pay for the Gunwerks “system”. Same reason I pay to get my oil changed. I’m not into cars, don’t really care to learn how to change my own oil, and don’t mind paying someone else to do it for me.

Good comment. By some people’s logic in this thread they should be doing all their own work on their cars so they understand how the system works and how to correct something before it goes wrong, possibly catastrophically.

 

[Aaron Davidson]

I have watched portions of two of Aaron Davidson’s interviews. My opinion is he is just another “Carnival Barker” with a very self serving agenda. People can’t see through his B.S. is beyond me??How many times in 30 minutes does he say “ oh my customers are CEO’s, rich business people, yada yada yada? It is so obvious all he is saying is , pay to much for one of my product and you can be in this elite crowd of inexperienced, uninformed buyers with more money than brains or common sense. I also listened to another of his infomercials where he can’t even remember the shot he made/missed on a brown/grizzly bear, like he is such an experienced well traveled hunter. I guarantee I can remember every shot I have made on a dangerous game animal whether it be mountain grizzly or cape buffalo. I find Mr. Davidson a overhyped, self serving, arrogant, condescending, conman. He is about the last person I would purchase a rifle or scope from, and about the last person I would want to share a hunting camp with.

We've been subject to this kind of criticism from the beginning. Its fine. The comments about arrogance are probably truish. I have a lot of confidence in my knowledge of the shooting system (to extreme detail), the capabilities of people and equipment and the accomplishments of my company and team. I've made peace with the fact that not everyone is a customer. Fine.

The personal insults are really lame. You don't know me. Con man? What are you talking about? We are the most transparent rifle company out there. We film and teach everything we do, the shop is open to tours anytime, our customers enjoy a unequivocal satisfaction guarantee, our prices are transparent. Your attacks show your ignorance, do better.

The truth is most people/shooters don't understand the significance of finer detail and design execution. For the longest time the Mcmillan A series was the epitome of LR stock design. Everyone copied or used it. We went a diff route, applying specific engineering principles to create a completely different shooting experience. If you never used one you had no idea. Just like driving a corrolla vs a mercedes ("the tikka is just as good"). Now you see our design geometry and ethos showing up in everyones rifle stocks (after 20 years) and everyone benefits. Times that by dozens of similar examples and you'll start to understand the confidence....

 

[MtnW]

We've been subject to this kind of criticism from the beginning. Its fine. The comments about arrogance are probably truish. I have a lot of confidence in my knowledge of the shooting system (to extreme detail), the capabilities of people and equipment and the accomplishments of my company and team. I've made peace with the fact that not everyone is a customer. Fine.

The personal insults are really lame. You don't know me. Con man? What are you talking about? We are the most transparent rifle company out there. We film and teach everything we do, the shop is open to tours anytime, our customers enjoy a unequivocal satisfaction guarantee, our prices are transparent. Your attacks show your ignorance, do better.

The truth is most people/shooters don't understand the significance of finer detail and design execution. For the longest time the Mcmillan A series was the epitome of LR stock design. Everyone copied or used it. We went a diff route, applying specific engineering principles to create a completely different shooting experience. If you never used one you had no idea. Just like driving a corrolla vs a mercedes ("the tikka is just as good"). Now you see our design geometry and ethos showing up in everyones rifle stocks (after 20 years) and everyone benefits. Times that by dozens of similar examples and you'll start to understand the confidence....

Your arrogance is overwhelming or underwhelming depending on how you look at you.
My money and experience goes to proven builders of hunting rifles such as Gene Simillion, Mark Penrod, and D’Arcy Echols. The real experienced hunters (and well healed) use these builders rifles. Believe it or not Mr. Davidson the above mentioned builders do not seek your advice on how to build a reliable, accurate hunting rifle. If you only knew as much as you think you do. Yes “Carnival Barker” is quite appropriate to your style of marketing!

 

[wind gypsy]

Your arrogance is overwhelming or underwhelming depending on how you look at you.
My money and experience goes to proven builders of hunting rifles such as Gene Simillion, Mark Penrod, and D’Arcy Echols. The real experienced hunters (and well healed) use these builders rifles. Believe it or not Mr. Davidson the above mentioned builders do not seek your advice on how to build a reliable, accurate hunting rifle. If you only knew as much as you think you do.

What are you even talking about. Comparing what Echols does to what gunwerks does are not remotely apples to apples. Completely different markets.

You're coming off like one of those dudes who critiqued Avery for not dressing like it's 1910 while hunting in Africa.

 

[svivian]

 

[MtnW]

What are you even talking about. Comparing what Echols does to what gunwerks does are not remotely apples to apples. Completely different markets.

Really? We are talking accurate hunting rifles?Aaron Davidson says his market is the ultra wealthy.Why not add the other two names in the mix, Mark Penrod and Gene Simillion? They build the most accurate and reliable hunting rifles in the world, along with a few others not named. Not only the rich buy rifles from these world known builders but some average dudes who are avid experienced hunters who want the best most reliable rifles made.

 

[Flyjunky]

Your arrogance is overwhelming or underwhelming depending on how you look at you.
My money and experience goes to proven builders of hunting rifles such as Gene Simillion, Mark Penrod, and D’Arcy Echols. The real experienced hunters (and well healed) use these builders rifles. Believe it or not Mr. Davidson the above mentioned builders do not seek your advice on how to build a reliable, accurate hunting rifle. If you only knew as much as you think you do. Yes “Carnival Barker” is quite appropriate to your style of marketing!

Wow, and you’re complaining about arrogance??? WTF

 

[Deadspace]

Keep up the solid work @Aaron Davidson. Even the haters benefit from it.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Your arrogance is overwhelming or underwhelming depending on how you look at you.
My money and experience goes to proven builders of hunting rifles such as Gene Simillion, Mark Penrod, and D’Arcy Echols. The real experienced hunters (and well healed) use these builders rifles. Believe it or not Mr. Davidson the above mentioned builders do not seek your advice on how to build a reliable, accurate hunting rifle. If you only knew as much as you think you do. Yes “Carnival Barker” is quite appropriate to your style of marketing!

Apples to oranges.. You don't like Aaron, got it, but your comparison is laughable.

 

[Silver Wings]

I should be charging my buddies at this point

After a bunch of trial and error and eventually getting my systems to pass the drop test, I basically set up everything for most of my hunting group.

Sold my cousin a tikka setup and he has not needed to touch the zero in approximately 4 years

But it was a lot of reading, learning, tons of ammo etc to get there.

Well I, for one, appreciate all your reading, learning and tons of ammo. It has definitely saved me a lot of reading, maybe not so much on the ammo, but I enjoy all the shooting.
Looking forward to my new to me 6mm Tikka build. I know it’s no GW build, but I’ll have to make due

 

[wind gypsy]

Really? We are talking accurate hunting rifles?Aaron Davidson says his market is the ultra wealthy.Why not add the other two names in the mix, Mark Penrod and Gene Simillion? They build the most accurate and reliable hunting rifles in the world, along with a few others not named. Not only the rich buy rifles from these world known builders but some average dudes who are avid experienced hunters who want the best most reliable rifles made.

There are countless gunsmiths who can chamber an accurate hunting rifle. I dont see Gunwerk's Schtick as being at all about being "the most accurate" or even the most obsessive about flawless machining, fitment, and finish. I dont see Aaron seeking out a challenge with Alex Wheeler (or similar) for the most precise shooting hunting rifle. As has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum, obsessing over 0.1 MOA precision difference means very little compared to shooter execution - which it would appear gunwerks is focused on streamlining with it's products more so than building a benchrest capable rifle.

I dont know much about Penrod and Simillion and only a bit about Echols. Are they designing their own stock shapes based upon breaking the cleanest trigger pull and managing recoil? Did they drive the industry towards ballistics on-board range finders? Are they designing scopes to improve where current options are lacking? At first glance, they come across as highly regarded gunsmiths who use traditional designs but execute them at a very high level. In some cases with an enormous upcharge for a bunch of hand fitting, finishing, and stockwork, and "high brow decoration". No knock on them at all, its just not at all a comparison to where gunwerks is pushing.