Cliff Grays Podcast with Aaron Davidson

[AkMtnRunner]

I did hear Aaron fault the mounting systems as the usual culprit. And as NF scopes are generally heavier than Leupold, a NF will likely slip more easily given equally inadequate mounting.

As to Aaron’s critique of the drop tests, it sounded to me as he just isn’t aware of how Form controls for the other variables. Permanently bonding the action to the mounting system, for example. And he may be trapped in the lab-thinking. He’s so proud of that contraption that may only be testing recoil-like G forces. There’s certainly value there but that doesn’t cover many other impacts that a systematic empirical method can offer.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

I may have misheard him but I believe Aaron said that observation was based on sold rifle systems over the years and the number of subsequent issues they had with systems sold with Leupold vs Nightforce scopes, not based on the lab testing.

If that's the case I might argue that the NF customers are more particular/picky than the Leupold customers.

 

[tm7554]

I think the point Aaron was making was not specifically to invalidate the drop test itself. He was a fan the way I heard it. The point he was making, my understanding, is that the product of the drop test is a pass/fail on a scope. Yet, it's not a scope specific test, but rather a system level test. Said another way, we don't say the scope lost zero so the Tika failed. The scope lost zero the ammo lot failed. The scope lost zero the UM rings failed. The product is the pass/fail on a scope when many of the variables aren't controlled. His beef, again my understanding, is that it could deep six a manufacturer. I could be completely wrong here also with my take on his point. But as i stated earlier I can see both sides and I personally put more faith in Form's work and opinion than any other data published to date on scope reliability, even though it's based on system level test. Also, Aaron's point seems correct also. It could possibly be improved upon, like everything else in life.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

it's a glitch in the simulation.... even when I say unknown munitions right now it is coming out "unknown musicians"
jake, i apologize

I like Unknown Magicians better.

they all seem to apply though haha

just cracked me up, they do make music, just not traditional music lol, get that clipped into the s2h podcast intro, maybe a little mix down on some rifle shots between unsuppressed and suppressed 'making music', cgi some rocker looks on the guys

the perfect guy accidentally came up with that, guys that know them could get some mileage out of that one, I know I would, 'oh please, sing me another song musician' 'oh boy, here comes the band again' 'lets go make some music boys' show up to meet them wearing a nice rock star t-shirt with them as the band but holding rifles like guitars, 'unknown musicians' in twisted sister lettering, they already got zz top vibes, definitely Jake... I'll lay off the meds now

 

[hibernation]

His beef, again my understanding, is that it could deep six a manufacturer.

I get what you're saying, but Leupold and Vortex sure don't seem to be having any issues selling scopes. I think it's starting to filter out into more mainstream hunting content, Meateater did a zero retention video recently. Randy Newberg's channel just did something similar to the cold bore challenge.

The drop tests are definitely having an impact beyond this site, but they're already being kind of adopted, embraced, or co-opted by some of the biggest sponsored content producers. Remains to be seen if that influences the manufacturers in a good direction, or if it gets watered down past the point of being useful.

 

[hibernation]

It’s weird that in real life, many guys here have had issues with Leupold and others, that went away when they chose a scope that passed the drop eval. Think about that.

Yeah, that's been the biggest takeaway for myself and a couple other hunters I know. Having issues for years that we assumed were part of the normal frustration, that's just how it works. Then switching to a tested scope and it all vanishes. Boresight, adjust, zero, done.

I guess I can't entirely blame the scopes, it was also mounts, mounting technique, not shooting enough rounds in a group, etc. It's just wild thinking how much time I used to spend chasing my tail, and now it's a total nonissue.

 

[Lawnboi]

I felt poor listening to that. There was some good information in it though.

 

[LFC911]

I felt poor listening to that. There was some good information in it though.

I haven't listened to the podcast but i did see a clip on social where they felt bad for the guys that couldn't afford a guide and I felt the same.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

hahaha, the full spectrum is covered well, it's a good listen or watch/listen, for us poor diy'ers to the big wallet guys, great points made on that dynamic, lots of 'logic' and 80,000' applied

like Aaron, does't hold back lol, good times, he would be a riot if in full rant mode, I'd sign up to listen/watch haha