Bring back made in USA..

[displacedtexan]

I’ll take that bet.

They graduated when YouTube appeared... Streaming wasn't a thing then.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

They graduated when YouTube appeared... Streaming wasn't a thing then.

Oh right, all millenials start working immediately the day they graduate high school.

I’ll take your bet any time

 

[Marbles]

I never said lazy people were the ONLY problem. But it most definitely is one of the largest at the moment.

As to degrees, if you get a philosophy degree that’s about the same career choice as game streamer with very little chance of success. Choose your career path wisely.

Spoken like someone who lacks depth of knowledge. Philosophy is a great undergrad for getting in to law school. I personally know two people who got degrees in biology and could not find work, so went back to school for nursing degrees. Know a few more with biology degrees who have never used the degree and work in EMS. I have a cousin who got a chemistry degree, only to go back to school and get a nursing degree due to trouble finding work.

 

[Yoder]

Spoken like someone who lacks depth of knowledge. Philosophy is a great undergrad for getting in to law school. I personally know two people who got degrees in biology and could not find work, so went back to school for nursing degrees. Know a few more with biology degrees who have never used the degree and work in EMS. I have a cousin who got a chemistry degree, only to go back to school and get a nursing degree due to trouble finding work.

So you know a bunch of people who squandered money on a useless degree only to have to go back and get another degree so they can get a real job.

I think one of the biggest problems is parents. Parents are asking their precious baby what is your dream? "I want to be a unicorn herding, professional gamer", that requires a Gender Studies degree from Harvard that only costs $200k. The parents that only make $100k/year help their baby take out soul crushing student loans and let them live at home for free until they are 30 yrs old. All of that gets them a part time job at Walmart that they are "too good for". They usually decide they should be the CEO after about 4 hrs at work and quit. All you had to do is say NO. Tell them it's not realistic and if they want to do that, it's up to them. You can't accomplish your child's dream. It's theirs. It requires hard work and discipline. If they aren't willing to put in that kind of effort in whatever they want to do, it's not happening. Financially supporting your adult child, to casually go to college for a useless degree is destroying this country.
I don't discourage my kids dreams, even if I think they are nonsense. My oldest son decided at one point he wanted to be a rapper, which was completely ridiculous. I didn't squash his dream or let him live at home for free. I told him that was awesome and to work at it as hard as he possibly could with the free time that he had. If he got to the point where he could support himself rapping, then he would be able to quit his job. That required a huge commitment. Needless to say, he's not a rapper.

 

[ETtikka]

The “labor shortage issue” is obviously not a simple issue, but I believe most of the damage has been done by certain administrations that prefer to have people dependent on the government as opposed to making 20$/ hr at a factory.

Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, bmw, Mercedes, Nissan, have all recently built huge manufacturing plants in the southeast where there are much less people compared to liberal portions of the country by local politics, tax policies, and in some cases lack of union make it worth their while. Ford is currently building a HUGE plant in west TN.

Unfortunately not much of this business is moving in to liberal states for obvious reasons.

Elections have consequences

 

[displacedtexan]

Oh right, all millenials start working immediately the day they graduate high school.

I’ll take your bet any time

Most of us started before.

Go find one then.

 

[Scrappy]

My belief is the ship has already sailed and we are just swirling in the bowl.


It doesn't matter how much you pay someone who has zero integrity. If and that's a BIG IF your employees show up to work they are not going to put in a days work no matter what.

Your all nuts if yiu think made in the USA will ever return. Having to hire seven people to get the job of one done. The math doesn't work. No way in he!! I would consider opening a business that requires employees. That's just a recipe for failure.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Most of us started before.

Go find one then.

Most millenials started working before graduation????

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Spoken like someone who lacks depth of knowledge. Philosophy is a great undergrad for getting in to law school. I personally know two people who got degrees in biology and could not find work, so went back to school for nursing degrees. Know a few more with biology degrees who have never used the degree and work in EMS. I have a cousin who got a chemistry degree, only to go back to school and get a nursing degree due to trouble finding work.

I feel bad for your children if you’re unable to steer them in a meaningful direction.

Do SOME go on to be successful with a philosophy degree? Sure, if they GO BACK to school for an advanced degree that is NOT a philosophy degree.

The fact remains, if you go to school and get a philosophy degree you will NOT be making any money with said philosophy degree. It offers zero meaningful skills to a future employer.

 

[Marbles]

I feel bad for your children if you’re unable to steer them in a meaningful direction.

You really should not worry about my children. But, if that makes you happy, go right ahead.

Do SOME go on to be successful with a philosophy degree? Sure, if they GO BACK to school for an advanced degree that is NOT a philosophy degree.

The fact remains, if you go to school and get a philosophy degree you will NOT be making any money with said philosophy degree. It offers zero meaningful skills to a future employer.

Humanity degrees are not things I generally recommend. However, out of all the humanities majors philosophy graduates have the highest starting salary and average making 60k a year. That is enough to be content, which for some is success. It also shows the fact that your use of all caps for some words really just highlights ignorance on the topic because it converts the statements into absolutes rather than generalities.

As for useful skills, philosophy specifically teaches logic (if taught correctly), which is useful for anything one goes on to do.

 

[Marbles]

So you know a bunch of people who squandered money on a useless degree only to have to go back and get another degree so they can get a real job.

The point was, that even STEM degrees do not always yield jobs. STEM degrees are generally a better bet than humanities, but it really depends. Some times, any degree is wasting money.

There are lots of flaws in the system. I'll leave you to tilt at the windmill unicorn herding association on your own.

 

[SoloWilderness]

Edit: Sorry, should have looked at the OP date.

Labor is the issue. We would have to shift from a service economy, and too many people have money they want to spend on being served, whether that is at a restaurant, or having someone else fix their plumbing.

Even at the ridiculous cost of skilled labor (master plumber/electrician/carpenter/mechanic, etc) we have a shortage. As the demand for healthcare surge's due to the Silver Tsunami we will need even more service workers. That, or boomers will have to figure out how to live and die alone, along with anyone who has severe disabilities.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see the US become a manufacturing powerhouse again, for the sake of my children. However, the reality is the Piper is coming and will be payed for the last 50 years of poor decisions. I just hope my generation will be the one that says "the buck stops here" but odds (and evidence) says we will copy the three generations that came before us and try to kick the can further down the road until it is out of our control.

One of the big struggles we face in acquiring the amount of labor we need in the skilled trades, is this perception that these jobs are overpaid (ie ridiculous cost of skilled labor) already, which they are not. Considering that they take years of dedication, schooling, and effort to achieve master, or even journeyman status, they need to be viewed with the same respect as white collar jobs. These are the jobs that literally build the factories we need to bring manufacturing onshore, house our population and keep everything running (literally keeping the lights on). I manage multi-million dollar, incredibly complex commercial construction projects, and need highly skilled, intelligent and motivated workers. We turn down tens of millions of dollars in no-compete work because of a lack of available labor.

Part of the issue with attracting enough skilled labor, is the perception of most in society that these careers are lumped in with the low paying entry level labor jobs, such as a general construction laborer, retail clerk, or hamburger flipper. In reality, a journeyman electrician makes $60-70k a year, with another $20-30K in overtime available if their company even allows it in this economy, which is rare. Hardly overpaid for a job requiring a 4 year education, 8000 hours of on the job training, and a licensing exam. Arguably underpaid if you look at in respect to how many times minimum wage a journeyman makes. This is the perception that is impacting our ability to recruit, which is no different than the difficulty a manufacturer might have in recruiting a highly skilled machinist. Both of these jobs require some degree of computer skills, are not populated by un-intelligent or unmotivated people, yet they are lumped in with low skill labor jobs.

The industry as a whole does a poor job of altering this public perception. Hollywood typically portrays tradesman as poor, uneducated rubes who apparently don't know about the all important belt. This lens is also applied to manufacturing workers. Until these occupations are portrayed and perceived as they are in Germany, where they are considered equal to white collar jobs, it's a hard sell to get younger generations to consider these occupations. An experienced, motivated journeyman has every opportunity to evolve their role into a computer and management-oriented occupation, with a salary north of $100k, and good benefits. Lots of electricians drive nice new trucks, live in paid off houses, and are actually essential to society.

They can achieve all this with no college debt. But this is not the public view of the job. Guidance counselors in school talk about the trades as a back up plan to college, not a desirable, in demand career path. Until this changes, it will be tough to find enough workers for many well compensated, but poorly perceived occupations.

 

[Marbles]

One of the big struggles we face in acquiring the amount of labor we need in the skilled trades, is this perception that these jobs are overpaid (ie ridiculous cost of skilled labor) already, which they are not. Considering that they take years of dedication, schooling, and effort to achieve master, or even journeyman status, they need to be viewed with the same respect as white collar jobs. These are the jobs that literally build the factories we need to bring manufacturing onshore, house our population and keep everything running (literally keeping the lights on). I manage multi-million dollar, incredibly complex commercial construction projects, and need highly skilled, intelligent and motivated workers. We turn down tens of millions of dollars in no-compete work because of a lack of available labor.

Part of the issue with attracting enough skilled labor, is the perception of most in society that these careers are lumped in with the low paying entry level labor jobs, such as a general construction laborer, retail clerk, or hamburger flipper. In reality, a journeyman electrician makes $60-70k a year, with another $20-30K in overtime available if their company even allows it in this economy, which is rare. Hardly overpaid for a job requiring a 4 year education, 8000 hours of on the job training, and a licensing exam. Arguably underpaid if you look at in respect to how many times minimum wage a journeyman makes. This is the perception that is impacting our ability to recruit, which is no different than the difficulty a manufacturer might have in recruiting a highly skilled machinist. Both of these jobs require some degree of computer skills, are not populated by un-intelligent or unmotivated people, yet they are lumped in with low skill labor jobs.

The industry as a whole does a poor job of altering this public perception. Hollywood typically portrays tradesman as poor, uneducated rubes who apparently don't know about the all important belt. This lens is also applied to manufacturing workers. Until these occupations are portrayed and perceived as they are in Germany, where they are considered equal to white collar jobs, it's a hard sell to get younger generations to consider these occupations. An experienced, motivated journeyman has every opportunity to evolve their role into a computer and management-oriented occupation, with a salary north of $100k, and good benefits. Lots of electricians drive nice new trucks, live in paid off houses, and are actually essential to society.

They can achieve all this with no college debt. But this is not the public view of the job. Guidance counselors in school talk about the trades as a back up plan to college, not a desirable, in demand career path. Until this changes, it will be tough to find enough workers for many well compensated, but poorly perceived occupations.

I do not think they are "over payed." I can see how one can get that interpretation from my wording. My point was, that even with good pay, people are not going into the professions.

Though, in looking up the actual hourly wages, I realize the pay is significantly lower than I thought. I would now put them as under payed by a lot.

Edit: I was thinking a master plumber made about $200 per hour. Not sure why, and that is pretty far off from reality.

 

[callmeishmael]

...............what an amazing thread here, and what a time to be alive.

 

[schmalzy]

Most millenials started working before graduation????

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Yeah not sure why this is such a controversial statement? Everyone I went to high school with had jobs. Don’t get me wrong there’s a lot of non performers in the millennial generation (which I am member of) but I’m just not seeing the universal failure that seems to be discussed so often. Losers and winners in every age bracket.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SoloWilderness]

I do not think they are "over payed." I can see how one can get that interpretation from my wording. My point was, that even with good pay, people are not going into the professions.

Though, in looking up the actual hourly wages, I realize the pay is significantly lower than I thought. I would now put them as under payed by a lot.

Edit: I was thinking a master plumber made about $200 per hour. Not sure why, and that is pretty far off from reality.

$200/ hour might be closer to the delivered cost of the service, which is not what the actual tradesman costs. A typical journeyman electrician would make $32-$38/ hour, with a good benefits package which might be worth another $10-$20 an hour. A master might command another $5-$25/ hour depending on other specialized skills and certifications, such as a NICET license. Then there is the cost of insurance, training, 401k match, workers comp, office overhead (non-productive labor costs), vehicles, etc. and the actual selling cost of that electrician to a project is closer to $55-$75/ hour. The contractor then needs to mark this labor up to a degree, anywhere from 10-25%. This labor cost gap is often a bigger part of the contractor's profit then the cost of the actual installation, etc. I think a lot of people don't realize that a lot of the cost they pay is the cost of the business, not the individual workers compensation.

 

[brewster22]

With the shortage of everything and the price tag attached to all good, I think it's time for manufacturing to shift back to producing products here in the USA. If you are waiting for the price of good to go back down, don't hold your breath. I live in so. Cal. uggh, and the number of container ships, last count 62, with 500k containers, waiting up to four weeks to unload is amazing. The cost to ship each container has gone up from around $2k per to $4500 on avg. Who do you think is paying that extra cost, us that's who. And it's likely to go higher in the near future. So with all that extra cost to ship from overseas, when will it become more financially beneficial to gear back up and manufacture right here in the USA. Or are we just going accept the fact that we are going to continue to be at the mercy of offshore goods, along with the increasing cost.

Only We can demand it by letting sitka and the rest of them know we will not buy it anymore.

 

[woods89]

One of the big struggles we face in acquiring the amount of labor we need in the skilled trades, is this perception that these jobs are overpaid (ie ridiculous cost of skilled labor) already, which they are not. Considering that they take years of dedication, schooling, and effort to achieve master, or even journeyman status, they need to be viewed with the same respect as white collar jobs. These are the jobs that literally build the factories we need to bring manufacturing onshore, house our population and keep everything running (literally keeping the lights on). I manage multi-million dollar, incredibly complex commercial construction projects, and need highly skilled, intelligent and motivated workers. We turn down tens of millions of dollars in no-compete work because of a lack of available labor.

Part of the issue with attracting enough skilled labor, is the perception of most in society that these careers are lumped in with the low paying entry level labor jobs, such as a general construction laborer, retail clerk, or hamburger flipper. In reality, a journeyman electrician makes $60-70k a year, with another $20-30K in overtime available if their company even allows it in this economy, which is rare. Hardly overpaid for a job requiring a 4 year education, 8000 hours of on the job training, and a licensing exam. Arguably underpaid if you look at in respect to how many times minimum wage a journeyman makes. This is the perception that is impacting our ability to recruit, which is no different than the difficulty a manufacturer might have in recruiting a highly skilled machinist. Both of these jobs require some degree of computer skills, are not populated by un-intelligent or unmotivated people, yet they are lumped in with low skill labor jobs.

The industry as a whole does a poor job of altering this public perception. Hollywood typically portrays tradesman as poor, uneducated rubes who apparently don't know about the all important belt. This lens is also applied to manufacturing workers. Until these occupations are portrayed and perceived as they are in Germany, where they are considered equal to white collar jobs, it's a hard sell to get younger generations to consider these occupations. An experienced, motivated journeyman has every opportunity to evolve their role into a computer and management-oriented occupation, with a salary north of $100k, and good benefits. Lots of electricians drive nice new trucks, live in paid off houses, and are actually essential to society.

They can achieve all this with no college debt. But this is not the public view of the job. Guidance counselors in school talk about the trades as a back up plan to college, not a desirable, in demand career path. Until this changes, it will be tough to find enough workers for many well compensated, but poorly perceived occupations.

I hate it that I can only like this once........

 

[displacedtexan]

Most millenials started working before graduation????

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Me, my wife, and virtually all of our friends. And the people we grew up around.

I worked 7-14s for the first few months after I graduated. No one was shocked or surprised.

 

[woods89]

I'm a millennial, and I started working in construction full time at 16. We exist.....