Bitcoin

[fmyth]

If anyone thinks the gov is going to allow a competing currency to exist, your smoking something.

It's a trading vehicle....period.

I stand by my statement.....tulips II

Technically Bitcoin has been determined to be a commodity, like gold and silver, under the Commodity Exchange Act (CEA). Yes, commodities can be traded or held as a long term store of wealth. Bitcoin has outperformed gold and the S&P 500 over the last decade.

 

[fmyth]

Bitcoin is the new 6.5 Creedmore. You either love it or you don't understand it and are vehemently against it.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

If anyone thinks the gov is going to allow a competing currency to exist, your smoking something.

They've tried hard to quash gold over the years, but alas that "barbarous relic" is still around as a form of money. Time will tell with Bitcoin. I think (hope) the horse has left the barn and the most they'll be able to accomplish is to tax the gains like any other commodity.

 

[hicountry1]

From someone far smarter than me.....


“Could governments seize bitcoin?” That is a common question, and much to the dismay of many, my opinion does not match the typical analysis. I have lost clients due to my honesty regarding crypto. I understand many firmly believe that Bitcoin will one day become the alternative to the USD, but it is unwise to believe that it is a safe haven to park money. I will not sugar-coat the truth, as feelings must be removed from trading. The answer is an astounding YES – governments can seize Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrencies.


To begin, there is much speculation around the founder(s) — Satoshi Nakamoto – who created Bitcoin (BTC) on June 3, 2009. The mystery person or group (or government agency) has been MIA since 2011. Yet 1 million Bitcoins remain in their original account, untouched. His wallet is estimated to be up to $73 billion, and if this is indeed an individual, he or she is one of the top 15 richest people in the world. They have never moved a fraction of a BTC from their account. So, one wallet contains 5% of all mined bitcoin. Will this person or entity perpetually hold?


Only 2.3% of Bitcoin owners own a full Bitcoin, while 74% own less than 0.01 BTC. Bitcoin was initially a way to remain under the government’s radar, with people using cash to fund their anonymous accounts. The majority no longer use this method and favor platforms that are required by governments to collect and verify all user data.


Bitcoin’s price is akin to the problem that existed when the bubble burst in 1966 with mutual funds because they were listed back then. The value can change at a volatility rate of 10x that of the dollar, making it a highly dangerous instrument as a store of wealth. It is solely a trading vehicle until they weigh it and the value is changed.





In 1966, investors bid the mutual funds up beyond net asset value so during the crash, people lost everything when they thought it was a secure investment. The net underlying assets may have dropped 20%, but they paid 20% over the net asset value and then sold at 50% of the net asset value. Many mutual funds crashed 70-90%, whereas the Dow drop was 26.5%. Ever since, mutual funds have no longer been allowed to be listed. You go in and out at net asset value. Bitcoin must change its structure, or it will never become a valid currency with a stable store of value, which is supposed to be the whole point. It is just an asset class of high volatility.


Countries with strong currencies do not want bitcoin in existence. There are numerous ongoing efforts to regulate all cryptocurrencies, as politicians claim people are using it to either bypass taxes or commit crimes. Governments have reached the end of their rope and are actively on the hunt for additional taxes. They will default on all their debts, and the new monetary system they are planning will give them total control.


Governments in Europe and the Middle East prohibited my company from selling their clients REPORTS on bitcoin. We spoke with the regulators and explained we were merely selling a report and not currency, but they threw it all in the same bin. The same exact thing happens when we ship ancient coins as governments consider them currency despite them not being in circulation for numerous lifetimes.





Those who call Bitcoin “digital gold” are onto something, as governments have seized gold in recent history. Herbert Hoover admitted in his “Memoirs” that the investigation that led to the creation of the SEC was on the back of a phone call where he was told it was a conspiracy against his administration to create the stock market crash.


Governments will impose capital controls as they always do. That will mean that they will have no intention of allowing people to buy and sell cryptocurrencies. They will most likely do that as well when it comes to gold and silver. A black market in precious metals may exist with a supply that cannot be increased. They might even seize gold mines.


Governments are allowing cryptos like Bitcoin to exist because they can trace the transactions far better than paper currency. Bitcoin is a trading vehicle and nothing more.

 

[Bearwhisky]

Explain to us how the government stops me from sending BTC to my neighbor. I don’t like losing money so I’m all ears.

I can’t wait until Tulips part VI. Hopefully we still get the big bear market crashes after the ETF approval.

Shut your phone off. Block your access to the internet. Etc. Just like they shutdown peoples bank accounts, except they don’t have access directly to your account, so they just shut off your access to it, or particularity your access to an exchange to move it/convert it. Im a fan of crypto, just saying if they want to, they will find some way to make it nearly impossible to move it.


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[MountainTracker]

From someone far smarter than me.....


“Could governments seize bitcoin?” That is a common question, and much to the dismay of many, my opinion does not match the typical analysis. I have lost clients due to my honesty regarding crypto. I understand many firmly believe that Bitcoin will one day become the alternative to the USD, but it is unwise to believe that it is a safe haven to park money. I will not sugar-coat the truth, as feelings must be removed from trading. The answer is an astounding YES – governments can seize Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrencies.


To begin, there is much speculation around the founder(s) — Satoshi Nakamoto – who created Bitcoin (BTC) on June 3, 2009. The mystery person or group (or government agency) has been MIA since 2011. Yet 1 million Bitcoins remain in their original account, untouched. His wallet is estimated to be up to $73 billion, and if this is indeed an individual, he or she is one of the top 15 richest people in the world. They have never moved a fraction of a BTC from their account. So, one wallet contains 5% of all mined bitcoin. Will this person or entity perpetually hold?


Only 2.3% of Bitcoin owners own a full Bitcoin, while 74% own less than 0.01 BTC. Bitcoin was initially a way to remain under the government’s radar, with people using cash to fund their anonymous accounts. The majority no longer use this method and favor platforms that are required by governments to collect and verify all user data.


Bitcoin’s price is akin to the problem that existed when the bubble burst in 1966 with mutual funds because they were listed back then. The value can change at a volatility rate of 10x that of the dollar, making it a highly dangerous instrument as a store of wealth. It is solely a trading vehicle until they weigh it and the value is changed.





In 1966, investors bid the mutual funds up beyond net asset value so during the crash, people lost everything when they thought it was a secure investment. The net underlying assets may have dropped 20%, but they paid 20% over the net asset value and then sold at 50% of the net asset value. Many mutual funds crashed 70-90%, whereas the Dow drop was 26.5%. Ever since, mutual funds have no longer been allowed to be listed. You go in and out at net asset value. Bitcoin must change its structure, or it will never become a valid currency with a stable store of value, which is supposed to be the whole point. It is just an asset class of high volatility.


Countries with strong currencies do not want bitcoin in existence. There are numerous ongoing efforts to regulate all cryptocurrencies, as politicians claim people are using it to either bypass taxes or commit crimes. Governments have reached the end of their rope and are actively on the hunt for additional taxes. They will default on all their debts, and the new monetary system they are planning will give them total control.


Governments in Europe and the Middle East prohibited my company from selling their clients REPORTS on bitcoin. We spoke with the regulators and explained we were merely selling a report and not currency, but they threw it all in the same bin. The same exact thing happens when we ship ancient coins as governments consider them currency despite them not being in circulation for numerous lifetimes.





Those who call Bitcoin “digital gold” are onto something, as governments have seized gold in recent history. Herbert Hoover admitted in his “Memoirs” that the investigation that led to the creation of the SEC was on the back of a phone call where he was told it was a conspiracy against his administration to create the stock market crash.


Governments will impose capital controls as they always do. That will mean that they will have no intention of allowing people to buy and sell cryptocurrencies. They will most likely do that as well when it comes to gold and silver. A black market in precious metals may exist with a supply that cannot be increased. They might even seize gold mines.


Governments are allowing cryptos like Bitcoin to exist because they can trace the transactions far better than paper currency. Bitcoin is a trading vehicle and nothing more.

Thank you for posting this, as I have some questions related to the post.

Who is the someone smarter than you? I didn’t see who you were quoting.

You never really stated how the btc could be seized, so how is it possible? Gold was traded in bc people were told if they didn’t it would be illegal. The entire purpose for the gov to get off the gold standard was so they could print forever.

You quoted that btc was originally created to stay under the radar, except it’s a ledger and always has been. So everything is tracked on the ledger. You then say the gov will allow it so they can track the holders. So which is it? Was it created for bad actors or is it for the gov to track you? And in the same sentence you make an argument for why cash/USD is used more regularly by bad actors.

From your quote it would appear the gov doesn’t want people to hold things that keep value.


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[fmyth]

Shut your phone off. Block your access to the internet. Etc. Just like they shutdown peoples bank accounts, except they don’t have access directly to your account, so they just shut off your access to it, or particularity your access to an exchange to move it/convert it. Im a fan of crypto, just saying if they want to, they will find some way to make it nearly impossible to move it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A few years ago the IRS sent me a letter stating that I had failed to file a return on an LLC I owned. My tax attorney/CPA had filed the return the previous year, indicated that it had closed and closed it with the State registrar. I sent him the letter and he sent a letter to the IRS and followed up with a phone call. He assured me that all was taken care of. The next week I was getting gas and my business debit card was declined as was my personal card and both of my credit cards. I drove down to my bank and learned that the IRS had frozen all of my accounts. My business gets 100% of its revenue via wire transfers, ACH payments and daily transfers from my credit card processors. All of my bills are on autopay or they have my debit card on file. It took a month to get the IRS to release my accounts. Chase made me pay a $500 fee for the closing and $500 for the opening of each of my accounts after the IRS released them. Then they charged me $25 for every declined transaction. The whole debacle was a mistake by the IRS. It cost me around 20k in bank fees, fines, lost business, legal fees etc. I learned that the Government can shut you down and take anything and everything you have with the click of a button. Even if its a mistake. If they want your Bitcoin they will take it. If they want your land, house, gold, cattle etc they can take it. Land of the Free my ass.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

I think Elon Musk, while appearing on SNL best decried Bitcoin.

 

[william schmaltz]

OK.

So now we’re shutting off peoples internet and seizing phones and computers because someone is using the wrong kind of money? They gonna water board half the population for their seed phrases too? They doing this to all the politicians that own crypto and grandpa that now has it in his retirement account too? How do they track it and know someone owns crypto? Hard wallets have no name tied to them. For all the government knows, once it leaves the KYC exchange it was purchased on, I sent it to the son of the deposed King of Nigeria. There are plenty of ways to sell crypto for cash in this country and neighboring if you wanted to. All you need is to memorize 12 words. The govt knows all this. They would rather me sell it back through the KYC exchange and get their share.

Simply saying “I don’t understand this, I don’t want to learn this, and it seems too volatile so I’m not going to invest” is an OK response. There’s no need to throw stuff at the wall hoping it sticks.

As was mentioned, we’re too far in. Their best and only bet for any sort of regulation is tax. The approved ETF was the final hill that signifies there is no turning back.

I think by asking how, if at all, the govt would seize all BTC and having people explaining the only way pretty much shores up the notion that you don’t have to worry. Or at least we can all agree we have much bigger problems if you think we’re getting to that point. Which puts me back to a previous reply I had; if you think that’s the route this country is going, buy bullets and guns not crypto and gold.

 

[fmyth]

The Arizona State Senate is considering adding BTC to its State Retirement Portfolios.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

A big concern for me is you pretty much can't do anything with crypto without transferring it into a bank account somewhere, that's where they get you. So send crypto to your neighbor, that's a trackable transaction, that account then withdraws into a bank account and whamo frozen assets. They're getting better and more efficient tracking all these things that used to fly under the radar. Obviously it's not all random or automatic you'd have to be under some sort of investigation but still the possibility is there especially with the new bank deposit reporting rules.

 

[Bearwhisky]

OK.

So now we’re shutting off peoples internet and seizing phones and computers because someone is using the wrong kind of money? They gonna water board half the population for their seed phrases too? They doing this to all the politicians that own crypto and grandpa that now has it in his retirement account too? How do they track it and know someone owns crypto? Hard wallets have no name tied to them. For all the government knows, once it leaves the KYC exchange it was purchased on, I sent it to the son of the deposed King of Nigeria. There are plenty of ways to sell crypto for cash in this country and neighboring if you wanted to. All you need is to memorize 12 words. The govt knows all this. They would rather me sell it back through the KYC exchange and get their share.

Simply saying “I don’t understand this, I don’t want to learn this, and it seems too volatile so I’m not going to invest” is an OK response. There’s no need to throw stuff at the wall hoping it sticks.

As was mentioned, we’re too far in. Their best and only bet for any sort of regulation is tax. The approved ETF was the final hill that signifies there is no turning back.

I think by asking how, if at all, the govt would seize all BTC and having people explaining the only way pretty much shores up the notion that you don’t have to worry. Or at least we can all agree we have much bigger problems if you think we’re getting to that point. Which puts me back to a previous reply I had; if you think that’s the route this country is going, buy bullets and guns not crypto and gold.

Im not saying they will seize all bitcoin. Or any at all for that matter. But they can (and likely would) limit/completely disable your access to utilize it if they don’t like you. And again, not everyone, just those not in the club. What are you going to do with your hard wallet if you cant access the internet to send/receive/exchange? Yea you still have it but what good is it if you cant utilize it?


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[mt terry d]

Haven't read entire thread so if this was previously posted disregard.

 

[Historybuff]

Don't miss out on this. Some good books are The bitcoin standard by saifedean ammous. All his books are good. Soft war by Jason Lowery. And the creature from jekyll Island by Edward griffen, isn't about bitcoin, it's about the creation of our corrupt banking system. Good youtube channels are bitcoin university, btc sessions, investanswers, British hodl, and bitcoin with dinny. This is more than a once in a lifetime deal. It's once in a millenia. Can't wait to see the hunting forum threads in 5 years posted by retired bitcoiners out chasing dreams.

 

[hicountry1]

Trade it, make your money, and run forest.

Etf made the price run, because they sucked in the Muppets.

They will short the crap out of it, and it will fall faster than it rose.

You are buying a fractional coin, and paying a huge premium for it.

That's the point that was made in the article.

 

[Historybuff]

Haven't read entire thread so if this was previously posted disregard.

 

[Bearwhisky]

Trade it, make your money, and run forest.

Etf made the price run, because they sucked in the Muppets.

They will short the crap out of it, and it will fall faster than it rose.

You are buying a fractional coin, and paying a huge premium for it.

That's the point that was made in the article.

Why does it matter what the fraction is? Instead of 21 million, if it started with trillions+ and mined/traded in larger (per $ value fraction) increments, it would all be one in the same correct?


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[Wrench]

I'd say the US dollar has more in common with a Ponzi scheme than Bitcoin does. Stick $100,000 in your mattress and watch its purchasing power evaporate month after month as our government prints more and more of it each year. Why do you think the price of everything has increased at an exponential rate over the last 5 years? Every time that printer goes BRRRRR the dollars you own are worth less when you exchange them for goods and services. Since 2020, the US has printed nearly 80% of ALL US Dollars in circulation. To put that in perspective, at the start of 2020 we had ~$4 trillion in circulation. Now, there is nearly $19 TRILLION in circulation, a 375% jump in 3 years.

You're assuming that people stockpile cash. I've always purchased tools and supplies. Today you can barter a wilton 600 bullet vice for a car. I wouldn't give you a piece of gum for some number on your cell phone.

 

[Wrench]

The Arizona State Senate is considering adding BTC to its State Retirement Portfolios.

View attachment 683636

That would scare me. If boeing crashes a jet, the stock drops. If apple brings out a new product, the stock reacts, if ConocoPhillips finds a new oil field, the stock goes up. Why? Because they're all tied to a tangible.

With bitcoin where is your tangible? Given the way AI can control information and the government can manipulate essentially everything.....the last thing I want to stake my retirement on is a product that is a belief vs a tangible.

If that means my meager retirement income and paid for assets are what I will have to settle for....I am fine with that.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

Im not saying they will seize all bitcoin. Or any at all for that matter. But they can (and likely would) limit/completely disable your access to utilize it if they don’t like you. And again, not everyone, just those not in the club. What are you going to do with your hard wallet if you cant access the internet to send/receive/exchange? Yea you still have it but what good is it if you cant utilize it?


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Indeed. If you're on the shitlist you won't be able to access it. Any transfers and payments are easy to track where they go and eventually whomever you send it to will need to extract it into a bank account, which will get seized.