BHA Supporting Legislation Outlawing the Sale of Information on Big Game Locations

[Pro953]

I wish you all would tone down the personal attack’s and try and have an adult conversation.

It do not like the idea of selling GPS coordinates for scouted animals. That said I think it will have 0% chance of changing success rates. I have tons of “target” bucks on game cams that I never see during season and shooting hours. Seems like this would play out the same way.


I like the idea of BHA in principal and agree with many of the opinions they hold. That said they are opinions. Just because I do not like something does not mean it should be outlawed.

I do feel like the BHA structure is starting to feel a lot like some of the less positive elements of fly fishing or trad hunting community. An air of elitism with opinions of “not real hunting, fishing” etc...




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[bowieknife50]

It seems to me you have defined yourself out of your argument. You correctly point out that commodities are a tangible good that is interchangeable with all others and the market places no value on one over another.

Then you put the GPS coordinates of an animal in that category. They are not. No GPS coordinate is the same as another. Furthermore, try to convince me that the market would not value a location from Robby Denning over a random "idiot with an iPhone."

Service businesses do some kind of work or do something that gives value to a client. A simple GPS coordinate has no value to anything unless it's attached to something. A scouting service adds value to a GPS coordinate by attaching it to information about what else is there. This differentiates it from other GPS coordinates and renders them NOT interchangeable with others.

No tap dancing here.

1. A commodity is a basic good used in commerce that is interchangeable with other commodities of the same type. Commodities are the inputs in the production of other goods or services. The commodity here, is the location, identified by a GPS number. There is no service provided by the commodity trader.

2. Again, whether or not someone works just as hard as the guided client is irrelevant. Wildlife are held in trust for you and I. Wildlife are not free market products that can be bought and sold on the free market. It's axiomatic federal (and state) wildlife law.

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[dallen]

By outlawing this practice those with no time or knowledge for scouting would be pushed into guided hunts (good for guides). Because guided hunts are significantly more expensive than a scouting report those hunters may wait longer between hunts (good for DIY).

Seems to me, that this is what I see more and more of now on social media. Guys with limited time.......no knowledge of how to scout....how to hunt......with these big expectations of having a picture taken with a trophy class animal. Guys with limited time or knowledge dont get pushed into buying a guide if they cant buy a gps location. Guys with unreasonable expectations of success without work are the ones forced into buying a guide. The goal of many hunters now seems only to be taking a trophy picture and showing it off on myface, spacebook....or whatever social media site your profile exists. I went on a guided hunt once....for geese. Was an ok shoot, but to me, that's all it was. I didn't get out to the field early, ponder a strategy on how to set the decoys...or to get the geese to pull into the pocket (cussing at the wind for changing directions after all the decoys and blinds are set)....do the calling and either succeed or fail based on my ability, inability and plain old luck to pull it together. Isn't that the challenge of hunting, and what draws most to it? Putting in the miles, the research, and a lot of time just figuring the animal and the country out. I think there seems to be a very (unreasonably high) expectation of going on a hunt, and pulling the trigger on that 40" ram or 380 bull. Sure, its nice when it all comes together (and I've always said, I'd rather be lucky than good). But that's not generally the case. I don't expect to shoot stuff every time I go out hunting. Those times that I do, I count my blessings that things just came together. Sometimes, hunters are forced to go guided. Hunting sheep in AK for a non res is pretty much going to require a guide. State says its for safety.....but we all know its about money. Pure and simple. I had never heard of the buying of a gps location before, had no idea that this was a thing. But, it surely doesn't surprise me....everyone wants to be a rock star......some want it without puttin in the time and effort that is required. Maybe my understanding of a guided hunt is skewed.....but I don't see the gratification in letting someone else do all the scouting, planning, strategizing the approach, figuring wind and terrain.......to me, the gratification comes from pushing through all the failed attempts, putting in the long hours and boot miles...and finally having it all come together. Taking the shot is actually the easy part of a hunt. If a guy wants a hunt where the animals location is pretty much locked in....go find an area with really tall fences (or steel slats).....

Ok, stepping off my high horse now......

 

[Beendare]

.....
I do feel like the BHA structure is starting to feel a lot like some of the less positive elements of fly fishing or trad hunting community. An air of elitism with opinions of “not real hunting, fishing” etc...

Agreed, well said

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[lak2004]

I sure hope that even 25% of you are as active with conservation groups (be it BHA, RMEF, DU, TU, etc) as you are on here criticizing them.

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[SDC]

I sure hope that even 25% of you are as active with conservation groups (be it BHA, RMEF, DU, TU, etc) as you are on here criticizing them.

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More so, at least for me.

 

[Okhotnik]

If BHA took this up, and I mean seriously took it up with the intent to see it through to the finish, I would throw earmarked money at them for that legal battle, no doubt. The corner hopping and WY wilderness laws are egregious violations of public access on publicly held lands.

Easy to answer :
BHA can’t raise money off these very important public land issues . Public land sportsmen certainly aren’t a big concern for them.

Follow the money

 

[ODB]

I sure hope that even 25% of you are as active with conservation groups (be it BHA, RMEF, DU, TU, etc) as you are on here criticizing them.

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Membership in any alternate group is not a prerequisite to make comments about a group that supports causes that may be counter to one’s interests. They took on the mantle of representing backcountry hunters and anglers by their own volition, it would be expected backcountry hunters and anglers at large are welcome to comment on how good a job they are doing.

 

[lak2004]

Membership in any alternate group is not a prerequisite to make comments about a group that supports causes that may be counter to one’s interests. They took on the mantle of representing backcountry hunters and anglers by their own volition, it would be expected backcountry hunters and anglers at large are welcome to comment on how good a job they are doing.

I said nothing of membership. I mean involved in the processes. Judge all you want, but if you are not on the ground making stuff happen, all you are doing is blowing smoke up the asses of those who put in the time volunteering with any of the organizations.

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[Okhotnik]

I sure hope that even 25% of you are as active with conservation groups (be it BHA, RMEF, DU, TU, etc) as you are on here criticizing them.

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Been a member of TU 34 years, DU 22 years, CCA 32 years, Ruffed Grouse society 23 years mule deer foundation 15 years, RMEF 17 years

Do I have your permission now to comment?

 

[cuerro viejo]

breaking news OnX and RMEF foundation in hot water for releasing migrations route map overlays......thus violationing fair-chase ethics

 

[BuzzH]

If BHA wants to push a “public land fight” maybe it should be opening up Wyoming wilderness areas to out of state hunters..

Why? Wouldn't change anyones mind about BHA anyway...for starters.

Seems that BHA annual donations of $750-$1500 to the WGF AccessYes program doesn't change anyone's mind. Or the fact that a couple members are in the top 10 private donors to the AccessYes program as well. Fighting state land exchanges that would have eliminated 4000 acres of BLM to some of the best elk hunting in SE Wyoming, not to mention impacting another 5-6K acre of Forest service didn't change anyone's mind. How about the county road vacations that WYBHA opposed and successful lobbied the Laramie County Commission to deny, the ones that would have eliminated public access to 4-5 sections of accessible BLM and State, that didn't change any minds. How about just last week when I contacted the Laramie County Bridge and Roads and had them remove an illegal lock of a road that was blocking access to several sections of State...yeah, that didn't change minds either.

Its best to just keep hurling the bullchit around and then ask them to solve YOUR problems...good thinking.

 

[Greenhorn]

Can't blame guys for trying to make a buck doing something they enjoy. And there will always be an army of guys opening up their wallets to have others help them out with things they can't or are not interested in doing, in this case hunting. Buying detailed how/where to hunt info isn't really a whole lot different than hiring an outfitter to hold your hand on a hunt either. Just more pressure on the critters and places to find them.. Guys doing this should be regulated just like outfitters.

 

[tdhanses]

On the topic of constructive dialog...
You don’t have a problem with how I said something. If it was, I’d see a lot of responses by you to the pro-coord selling, anti BHA comments-but I don’t.
You have a problem with me having a different point of view on buying and selling coordinates than you do, which is strange because my view is one of the more moderate ones posted on here.
The view of, I don’t like it, but I think there are bigger fish to fry.
Much bigger, and they deserve attention they aren’t getting, from groups that claim to be lazer focused on those issues.

To me the selling of cords is no different then an outfitter selling a spot on public land because in the end it’s the same thing and the outfitters do not always hold your hand, many have “drop camps”.

Neither is a guarantee and I see no need for calling someone a “dipshit” if they want to try it, now it isn’t something I would do for my average annual hunts but I might look more into it for Limited Entry hunts fully knowing it is just another point of research as you are not buying the location to a specific animal tied to a tree.

As others have said the bill is a BS feel good bill that will do nothing, let’s not personally attack others, instead let’s discuss our opinions in a manner that makes for a good convo.

 

[Rich M]

Someone mentioned the corner hopping laws - fixing those would have a greater impact on our hunting experiences.

 

[cuerro viejo]

One a serious note, you draw a tag, invite a buddy to come with you to help scout. He goes up one drainage you go the other. You pay all his expenses for helping. Ironically he finds you a stud, you go in next week and kill it. Because you paid his way would you be in violation of this law? You are in the spirit that’s for damn sure.

 

[Rich M]

You can not use "reasonable person" when it comes to laws. Lawyers decide what laws say and mean.

Whenever "they" change stuff related to my work, we wait for the first lawsuits to come out to further define how we do our work and how we protect ourselves from lawsuits.

 

[JWP58]

Its best to just keep hurling the bullchit around and then ask them to solve YOUR problems...good thinking.

Actually it's best not to give them a penny until they are actually transparent on their finances. I know, way to much to ask. We should just hand them money and hope for the best.

Or you can just be a pompous ass, which you're excellent at.

 

[SDC]

Actually it's best not to give them a penny until they are actually transparent on their finances.

That won't happen, because of the questions and connections that would start up. Instantly.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

Why? Wouldn't change anyones mind about BHA anyway...for starters.

It would 100% change my mind about it. As a former member (like some on here that was razor close to pulling the trigger on being a lifer) I just didn't see the action from the top down. As ryan said there's some good people and localized chapters but as a whole it's a lot of feel good and pint night activities. Thank you for the accute efforts you've put forth but until this is seen on a national level, not just one guy or one chapter, it's merely become a social club or popularity contest...... to which I don't have the time or an interest in being a part of.

If I can be 100% brutally honest: I can't do what you do. I don't have time to fight these battles. Life family and work dictate I uphold my higher priorities. I wish I did, I wish I only worked 40 hours a week and had evenings and weekends to go for a cause like this but I don't. So I try to contribute with money and donations, although not as effective as sweat equity it's what I can do.... and what I can't. I wanted, really wanted to like BHA.... they just haven't proven themselves as a key player in some of the most obvious battles (even though they like to think they are).