BHA Supporting Legislation Outlawing the Sale of Information on Big Game Locations

[MtGomer]

how I should have gone to the city meeting and support them on banning plastic bags in our community.

Is this real?

 

[CorbLand]

The only thing I edited is the town this was in and which college this is associated with but it shouldnt be to hard to figure it out.

 

[lak2004]

I had time to do some more research, I must have two David Petersens of Durango confused.

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/david_petersen_vice_chair_conservation
https://www.denverpost.com/2013/06/...-of-colorados-spring-bear-hunt-is-right-call/

Here is a link to the 1/20/19 article that "David Petersen" of Durango is talking about limiting September hunting opportunities. https://www.denverpost.com/2019/01/...s-shutdown-densification-of-denver-gov-polis/

I'm confused at how an article from 2013 relates to the passage of the spring bear hunt ban, which already was stated that BHA was not even in existence at the time. No I can't read the articles from the DP because they have limits.
David Petersen was an original founder of the state chapter.

 

[blkqi]

Some of you folks are forgetting that the limitations of fair chase are voluntary. There are many legal ways to kill game that wouldn't qualify, and purchasing a waypoint to your trophy should be one of them. This should be seen as a cultural/ethical issue, not a legal one.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I had the opportunity and honor of discussing this with a good friend yesterday evening. He took the "ban it" side to begin with and he and I beat this thing every which way we could. In the end, here's what we came to and both agree on. This bill is worse than nothing. Leave aside all the hyperbolic statements and straw men meant only to demonize others for the sake of self-aggrandizement; the bill does nothing.

Allow me to elaborate. The bill would ban the sale of coordinates for hunting; fine, change the purpose of the app to wildlife viewing and put in a proviso that said the use for hunting violates the purposes of the app. Law defeated. The bill exempts out guides and outfitters; they can use it for whatever purpose they want, and you cannot ban the use of GPS coordinate data to guides and outfitters or to be used by their business because you then prohibit them from using a GPS at all (which would be stupid). Further, all the app company would have to do would be to obtain a guide/outfitter license, or work through a guide/outfitter, and they continue on their business as if the law never existed.

The bill, at best, is poorly crafted and poorly worded. At worst, it's a knee-jerk reaction based upon emotionalism without considering consequences or alternatives. We didn't even get into the landowner exemptions or lessees, but that just adds yet another end-around. At this point, I cannot see any actual benefit from this bill or from supporting the bill other than a self-aggrandizement "look-good/feel-good" angle, or as a means of protectionism for guides/outfitters. There can be a lot of language thrown around about trying to prevent the boogeyman from eroding this, that, or the other; but where reality sets in, the bill does nothing beneficial.

And, yes, I used to be supportive of and involved with BHA. No longer. I agree with Ryan Avery's take: some of the state chapters do great work, but that's as far as it goes.

Best post yet

 

[lyle_destroys]

This has "interest groups" written all over it. It would not be legal for average joe to make money scouting and sharing information for profit. But outfitting and high fence ranch hunting continues to be totally ok, seems like certain groups have a bigger voice here. And those same people may be threatened by a 3rd party that wants to be successful but not use their service.

 

[Billinsd]

I have been giving CBA a piece of my mind. There are too many bowhunters in the woods in Colorado, a modest reduction in tags makes a great deal of sense.

Common sense reduction? Do you bowhunt?

Does BHA consider paid scouting OK then if you have one of their "PUBLIC LAND OWNER" Tshirts?

No, I mean't public land is ours. I have a pet peave when people refer to where they hunt or their honey hole as their spot. I know it can be semantics, but I believe some guys think a spot is theirs and have seen them go to great lengths to run others off. Not saying or insinuating you do that.

 

[Billinsd]

This has "interest groups" written all over it. It would not be legal for average joe to make money scouting and sharing information for profit. But outfitting and high fence ranch hunting continues to be totally ok, seems like certain groups have a bigger voice here. And those same people may be threatened by a 3rd party that wants to be successful but not use their service.

kinda like taxis and uber. I'm in favor of competition, deregulation, and against government subsidizing business, ie crony capitalism. I'm not pro or anti guides. The law is very poorly thought out and written, as are most laws. It try's to fix something deemed unfair by unfair restrictions. Fair is such a subjective word. People have such different ideas about fair. I think I'm fair because I strive to be honest and don't push my beliefs, morals, and hunting ethics on others. I know we do need some laws and regulations, but it's out of control.

 

[Billinsd]

Some of you folks are forgetting that the limitations of fair chase are voluntary. There are many legal ways to kill game that wouldn't qualify, and purchasing a waypoint to your trophy should be one of them. This should be seen as a cultural/ethical issue, not a legal one.

Amen!!

 

[CorbLand]

kinda like taxis and uber. I'm in favor of competition, deregulation, and against government subsidizing business, ie crony capitalism. I'm not pro or anti guides. The law is very poorly thought out and written, as are most laws. It try's to fix something deemed unfair by unfair restrictions. Fair is such a subjective word. People have such different ideas about fair. I think I'm fair because I strive to be honest and don't push my beliefs, morals, and hunting ethics on others. I know we do need some laws and regulations, but it's out of control.

It really needed to written that if you want to do this you need to establish a business.

 

[mtmuley]

The day I need to buy GPS coordinates to kill an animal, I'll give this shit up altogether. mtmuley

 

[KurtR]

Who is BHA pushing away? Considering we are now up to almost 30k members and increasing yearly, seems kind of hard increasing member at the rate we while pushing people away. The fact of the matter is we are diverse group with plenty of divergent opinions however that hasnt stopped us from tackling issues together.
I keep hearing how locally and on the state level we do great but fall short nationally. Well I got news for you. The state a local level is where most of the fight is. Win there and your winning. If you hoping for big sweeping wins on the federal levels from BHA or any conservation or lobbying group you going to be waiting a long time between win or opportunity to fight.
Politics is local. And local politics is your foundation to success.

There it is your group does nothing wrong and has no room for improvement. Numbers may be going up overall but a bunch of people who are hunters seem to be walking away. Also if nothing will be accomplished at the national level why are we making land tawney rich? How long till he moves on to his next “cause”. Seems to be a pattern. Would it not be better to have a board made up of regional directors to fight these localized battles better and put resources right where needed?

In reality seems this service has been around for years. How many people have ran into any one who has way points given to them? Do we really need more regulation?

 

[lyle_destroys]

It really needed to written that if you want to do this you need to establish a business.

Why? To jump through more government hoops?

 

[CorbLand]

Why? To jump through more government hoops?

So it is trackable and those that are doing this are held accountable for what they are doing. This is no different than guiding and those that are guides have to pay fees. These fees are because you are using a public asset and making a profit off it. No difference than logging fee, oil dividends, etc. It would mediate the ability for someone to take something that is funded by the public and make money off it.

 

[Trial153]

There it is your group does nothing wrong and has no room for improvement. Numbers may be going up overall but a bunch of people who are hunters seem to be walking away. Also if nothing will be accomplished at the national level why are we making land tawney rich? How long till he moves on to his next “cause”. Seems to be a pattern. Would it not be better to have a board made up of regional directors to fight these localized battles better and put resources right where needed?

In reality seems this service has been around for years. How many people have ran into any one who has way points given to them? Do we really need more regulation?

“There it is your group does nothing wrong and has no room for improvement. “

Where was that stated? It wasn’t. But it was what you wanted to hear. So it must true eh?
If you asked if there was room for improvement, I would answer that there is always room to improve.

“Numbers may be going up overall but a bunch of people who are hunters seem to be walking away.”

I am hunter, and I am haven’t walked away. I know many other members who are hunters and they don’t seem to be walking away, however that doesn’t me that my perception is indicative of reality. The same way that you “ seem ing “ to think hunters are walking away may not be indicative of reality either.
I did say we are growing as an organization. That however is fact, not mine or your perception.


“Also if nothing will be accomplished at the national level why are we making land tawney rich? “

Again other then you who said “nothing “ is being accomplished Nationally?
The fact is that most political work is done locally and on state level. Again you may not like it but it’s a fact.

As far a Land getting Rich, if he is he isn’t getting rich it from his BHA salary. 130k in 2019 is making a living in my neck of the woods. I would need a second income.



“Would it not be better to have a board made up of regional directors to fight these localized battles better and put resources right where needed? “

Good point. I can certainly agree that we need to be even more responsive to local issues that fall under scope of our organizations charter. I hope we continue to adapt to the changing political land scape to best serve our membership.

 

[robby denning]

@robby denning - Addressing you as this relates to your business.

I'm curious on someone's point earlier. Wouldn't it be a requirement to have a commercial photography permit to sell a photo of an animal taken on National Forest land?

could be, but in multiple meetings over the years with outfitter's and guides, it was never mentioned. Probably because we weren't ever "selling pictures" but maps with prescouted info. Pictures were just included. And it's doesn't matter now as the only pics we do now are from Google Earth. We haven't mailed out a picture in years. I need to check my website and make sure it reflects that. If it doesn't, it's because it's an 18 year old site!

 

[Phaseolus]

Common sense reduction? Do you bowhunt?
No, I mean't public land is ours. I have a pet peave when people refer to where they hunt or their honey hole as their spot. I know it can be semantics, but I believe some guys think a spot is theirs and have seen them go to great lengths to run others off. Not saying or insinuating you do that.

Yes commons sense reductions, Yes I have bowhunted since 1983.

 

[KurtR]

“There it is your group does nothing wrong and has no room for improvement. “

Where was that stated? It wasn’t. But it was what you wanted to hear. So it must true eh?
If you asked if there was room for improvement, I would answer that there is always room to improve.

“Numbers may be going up overall but a bunch of people who are hunters seem to be walking away.”

I am hunter, and I am haven’t walked away. I know many other members who are hunters and they don’t seem to be walking away, however that doesn’t me that my perception is indicative of reality. The same way that you “ seem ing “ to think hunters are walking away may not be indicative of reality either.
I did say we are growing as an organization. That however is fact, not mine or your perception.


“Also if nothing will be accomplished at the national level why are we making land tawney rich? “

Again other then you who said “nothing “ is being accomplished Nationally?
The fact is that most political work is done locally and on state level. Again you may not like it but it’s a fact.

As far a Land getting Rich, if he is he isn’t getting rich it from his BHA salary. 130k in 2019 is making a living in my neck of the woods. I would need a second income.



“Would it not be better to have a board made up of regional directors to fight these localized battles better and put resources right where needed? “

Good point. I can certainly agree that we need to be even more responsive to local issues that fall under scope of our organizations charter. I hope we continue to adapt to the changing political land scape to best serve our membership.

Nothing really to add but if I make 130k I am going on guided hunts every year and living high off the hog here in Sodak. Amazing difference cost of living across the country.

 

[Trial153]

Nothing really to add but if I make 130k I am going on guided hunts every year and living high off the hog here in Sodak. Amazing difference cost of living across the country.

I agree, the cost of living some places is insane. Truth is money doesn’t go no place in 2019, i maybe wrong but I haven’t see wages keeping up with prices really anywhere....but the government will say differently I am sure.

 

[MtGomer]

130k to raise a family on and buy a home, and pay the exorbitant property taxes in Missoula, then have some left to participate in some the recreation around there- which is the point of living there- isn’t all that much. I’m from there and know people from dirt floor poor, to some of the wealthiest in the area and everything in between.
The ones raising a family on 130 aren’t rich.