BHA Supporting Legislation Outlawing the Sale of Information on Big Game Locations

[robby denning]

So 4 tags not punched (business expense?) means you’ve contributed more to the “resource” and the animal population (which isn’t yours)

Yes, at least according to your proposal to Jack buck tags up by 4x





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[robby denning]

Well, since you had to look up the definition in order to comment and you still don’t get the point, I’ll just let that stand on its own.

Not trying to “look” anything...just using the right word for the right idea.

If you need a full explanation, here it is: Let us not fool ourselves (or others) into thinking that spending a lot of money on tags that were ultimately not punched because we deemed the target animal inferior to our desires was an act of selflessness and was of greater benefit to the animals and other hunters than it was to us.

Or to put it succinctly: Let’s not pretend this is altruism.

OK, thanks for clarifying. But I think if you would’ve left the word “not” out of the original post, it would’ve been clearer.

And remember, I wasn’t posting about being selfless, I was answering the call for paying four times the amount of money for buck tags.


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[ODB]

OK, thanks for clarifying. But I think if you would’ve left the word “not” out of the original post, it would’ve been clearer.

And remember, I wasn’t posting about being selfless, I was answering the call for paying four times the amount of money for buck tags.


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“Not” is the most important word of that sentence.

In any case, this would all be so much more fun to talk about in person... it’s the catch 22 of Internet forums: they both allow and restrict free dialogue...

On another note, did anyone listen to the latest Meateater podcast from the BHA rendezvous? I though the beginning over-defense of BHA and the belittling of BHAs critics en masse was a bit of bad form. It was also interesting to listen to groupthink take hold.

 

[Glendon Mullins]

In any case, this would all be so much more fun to talk about in person... it’s the catch 22 of Internet forums: they both allow and restrict free dialogue...

and people cannot see nor hear the sarcasm, I was just joking with you and robby earlier on the wikipedia post, it's all good!!

conversation is much better around a campfire with a beer or two or three

 

[Idaho_Potato]

“Not” is the most important word of that sentence.

In any case, this would all be so much more fun to talk about in person... it’s the catch 22 of Internet forums: they both allow and restrict free dialogue...

On another note, did anyone listen to the latest Meateater podcast from the BHA rendezvous? I though the beginning over-defense of BHA and the belittling of BHAs critics en masse was a bit of bad form. It was also interesting to listen to groupthink take hold.

To be fair, the whole point of the BHA rendezvous seems to be an opportunity to reinforce their groupthink and let paying members pay more to drink in the same spot.

 

[Shrek]

BHA is the Sierra Club in drag and it’s doing exactly what its true purpose is which is turning hunters on themselves. Every BHA member is just a useful idiot for the leadership to tool.
The real problem here is the hunters on both sides of this issue. Both sides value big antlers above all. I really don’t care even a little if someone buys the location of a big antlered animal because I’m not there for big antlers. I hunt for the experience , meat , and friendship. If there’s a big antlered animal that’s great but if I shoot any mature animal I’m just as happy. It’s not a competition to me and I don’t think it should be to anyone else. If antlers and competition are all you care about then so be it. Some hunters compete with sweat and time while others with money. In the end for those who chase antlers it’s all about their personal vanity.

 

[16Bore]

Yes, at least according to your proposal to Jack buck tags up by 4x
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But wait, we’ve already determined that shooter bucks don’t have as much value as “trophy” bucks....and doe’s hardly worth a mention.

So let’s say a flat fee for all tags, then a discount if a hunter shoots a doe and an additional fee if it exceeds a certain measurement. Pay at check in....


Value, is a funny thing.

 

[Rthur]

This reminds me of the "ethical" range to take a shot.
So many trying to tell everone else how and what they are allowed to do.
Similar to watching TV, if you don't like the program don't take part in it.
Something I haven't seen in this dicussion is the amount of money/effort being put forth by those who would sell
coords in order to have them.

R

 

[willfrye027]

With regard to scouting packages: Success comes at the intersection of skill, hard work, and luck/opportunity. Same in hunting as in life. A scouting package might give a guy the edge on opportunity, but skill and hard work are absolutely still needed to seal the deal. Personally even if this was occurring in my hunting areas I would not feel threatened because I can still probably edge out the competition with hard work and skill. If you are as hard core as you espouse to be then I’m sure you can too. Plus if you’re local then you absolutely have a leg up on the opportunity because scouting something yourself is 10x better than second hand info. This is a non-issue IMO, guys need to get over their antler anxiety.

With regard to the Internet/bha/hipster/insta movement: I have a lot of family in California and other liberal places. For the first time ever in the last few years I am noticing that hunting is now “cool” in their circles. People ask me for game meat all the time now. I attribute this to all of the above groups. I think for the most part we can agree that the emerging Internet scene is NOT representative of the average guy. Real hunting is not as romantic, clean, ethical, whatever. Sorry but it’s not. However I am perfectly fine with the masses believing this. (On a side note their is a ton of chest-thumping nonsense that happens on social media, more on the individual rather than organization side. This is bad and hopefully will be fazed out as people learn that nobody likes that crap).

More power to Meat Eater, Randy, BHA, and anyone else that makes what we do more palatable to the public. We need the good PR.

 

[chasewild]

All right, since you propose that, let's take a look at what the antler obsessed guys spend vs. what they take from the resource. I'll use me as an example and the last four seasons.

-2015 spent $25 on Idaho Res. tag and $300 on Non-res. Ate the Non-res =$300 back to the resource
-2016 spent $25 on Idaho Res. tag and $300 on Non-res, $450 to Utah, $250 to NV. Ate everything except the $25 Idaho tag = $1,000 back to resource
-2017 spent $25 on Idaho Res. tag and $300 on Non-res, $300 on Colorado. Ate the Id Non-res = $300 back to the resource
-2018 spent $25 on Idaho Res. tag and $300 on Non-res, Ate the Non-res tag = $300 back to resource

$1900 Total in unpunched tags

The unused tags weren't because I couldn't find bucks. Found killable bucks nearly every day of the hunt (or the scout), just not big enough to pull the trigger. We antler obsessed guys like to let 'em grow up.

None of this includes the non-refundable licenses or application fees of the 4-5 other states I apply for (probably around $500), so I'm pushing $2500 bucks last four seasons for harvesting 5 bucks at an average of $500/buck tag filled. I won't include the economic stimulus I provided when I turned that UT and NV tag back as they resell those, effectively getting the money twice.

Many other antler obsessed guys I know have a yearly receipt just like this. We just like a big set of antlers to go along with all that extra meat.

Does this get us close enough to the "4x fees for bucks" that you propose?

Not only does this make common sense, but it's supported by the biologists and ecologists in SW Colorado.

 

[robby denning]

But wait, we’ve already determined that shooter bucks don’t have as much value as “trophy” bucks....and doe’s hardly worth a mention.

So let’s say a flat fee for all tags, then a discount if a hunter shoots a doe and an additional fee if it exceeds a certain measurement. Pay at check in....


Value, is a funny thing.

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[chasewild]

To be fair, the whole point of the BHA rendezvous seems to be an opportunity to reinforce their groupthink and let paying members pay more to drink in the same spot.

Skim through the constitution. It's a good read.

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” U.S. Const. Amend. I . . . . .subject to time, place and manner restrictions of course.

 

[coloyooper]

More power to Meat Eater, Randy, BHA, and anyone else that makes what we do more palatable to the public. We need the good PR.

This right here. I go back and forth on BHA all the time. I don't agree with a lot that they do but they're increasing hunter recruitment and making it look "cool." I don't love the Charles Post type... but at the end of the day if it ensures future hunting for my kids, who am I to oppose them?

 

[16Bore]

MeatEater jumped the shark after Season 1. I think a lot of guys could identify with Rinella in the beginning, but now it’s a band wagon trying to keep up.

His value changed from “hey, that’s me” to “that’s the celebrity I want to be”.

Price is what you pay, value is what you get.

 

[452b264]

The problem I see with selling way points is an high concentration of hunters in a given area, say you have 300 tags and there are 150 of them bought the same way point. (this area will be ruined for future hunts) I hunt an area that is also used by an outfitter and just cant imagine him or anyone else selling way points for that area. All the pressure it will put on mature deer as more and more people use such a service will led to a decline in quality of that herd.

 

[ODB]

MeatEater jumped the shark after Season 1. I think a lot of guys could identify with Rinella in the beginning, but now it’s a band wagon trying to keep up.

His value changed from “hey, that’s me” to “that’s the celebrity I want to be”.

Price is what you pay, value is what you get.

Yup. I look at it like this: it has gone from inspirational to instructional.

But yes, I still consume in the hopes of catching a glimpse of that inspiration that was so spot-on at the start...

 

[Comerade]

Well, I belong to BHA member and watch all issues with them.
I belong because it most closely aligns with my approach to hunting, wildlife and land use issues.
Like any group you must participate and voice your concerns. Mob mentality is the is the ruin of all organizations.
Firstly they are dedicated hunters- rule#1 and we cannot do without a well managed landbase. This is a boots on approach, imo.

 

[Idaho_Potato]

To be fair, the whole point of the BHA rendezvous seems to be an opportunity to reinforce their groupthink and let paying members drink in the same spot.

Skim through the constitution. It's a good read.

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” U.S. Const. Amend. I . . . . .subject to time, place and manner restrictions of course.

Cute reference, but please point out where I said they should not be allowed to have a silly get together?

 

[Okhotnik]

The price of resident tags and licenses blew me away when I moved to Idaho. $15 to hunt and $36 for an elk. This is after the recent price increase. It costs more to fill up my truck to get to where the elk are. I don't think a $200 resident elk tag would so much as put a dent in the hunter numbers either. If you can afford the gear and the gas to set up shop and live in the mountains for a week then $200 is nothing. Especially for the growing army of sheep wearing $1000 worth of camo, $500 boots, $800 backpacks, and carrying $2000 bows.

They could even do it based on income brackets. It's a state agency - they could figure out what we payed in taxes last year.

License fees based on income?

I agreed with the majority of your post but punishing people who work harder , studied more is just wrong.

Half the people in the US pay little or no fed income tax. You want more handouts?

 

[Okhotnik]

MeatEater jumped the shark after Season 1. I think a lot of guys could identify with Rinella in the beginning, but now it’s a band wagon trying to keep up.

His value changed from “hey, that’s me” to “that’s the celebrity I want to be”.

Price is what you pay, value is what you get.

Rinella has become a cult figure to some. Heaven forbid you criticize him.

He’s just a guy who hunts and cooks his game. My buddies and I have been doing this same activity over 40 years in many states and overseas , just like a lot of other members on here. When it comes to hunting I’d take members’ advice over Rinella any day. I’ve started cooking game using French and Italian based recipes in the early 80’s ( mom taught me) and process my own game and been doing this considerably longer than him. I see hunters fawning over his gourmet cooking as it some great new thing.

He’s provides entertainment- that’s all

Hes great at marketing himself though give him that. I prefer Randy over Rinella

He’s not some all knowing guru.