BHA Supporting Legislation Outlawing the Sale of Information on Big Game Locations

[16Bore]

I don’t believe this generation has the time, patience, or attention span for hunting. How many posts have you seen that said “so I’m sitting here in my tree stand...”

And let’s be honest, isn’t the vast majority of the conversation about western big game?

Maybe we need an Argentina type dove “problem”. Fast, plentiful, easy in, easy out. Days work for 1 meal.

Dunno...but modern big game hunting Is beyond tarnished.

 

[robby denning]

I don’t believe this generation has the time, patience, or attention span for hunting. How many posts have you seen that said “so I’m sitting here in my tree stand...”

And let’s be honest, isn’t the vast majority of the conversation about western big game?

Maybe we need an Argentina type dove “problem”. Fast, plentiful, easy in, easy out. Days work for 1 meal.

Dunno...but modern big game hunting Is beyond tarnished.

I don’t disagree, but like it or not, they are our future. Long after you and I are in the ground, it will be them to carry on the greatest wildlife management program known to man. Won’t matter if they’re sitting in a tree watching YouTube while they wait on a big deer, I just want to make sure we have the right to sit in the tree, and have something to shoot at.

 

[Mike7]

I am completely fine with less hunters, but if Washington and California are the example of this, then it doesn't look too good for game management and hunting as it has been practiced previously...a system which maintained more stable wildlife numbers and allowed for the opportunity needed to keep hunting traditions alive.

I really don't know what the level of hunters needed is to maintain some political clout and I am sure that this is not the only factor to consider, but the current level of hunters does not seem to be enough in the above states. Hunters in these states seem to have very little say now compared to some of the groups which are often much of the time really environmentalist groups masquerading as conservation groups.

Here is an article that I just got in my email complaining about WDFW not getting enough of the state's budget increase and hunter's not paying enough per this particular wildlife group which is very politically active in Washington. The hunting fees in Washington are already not cheap, and allow you only short restricted OTC seasons.
https://www.conservationnw.org/setback-from-olympia-for-wildlife/

 

[bigdesert10]

Even if we doubled the number of current hunters, we would not pose a politically formidable faction. I'm not convinced more hunters solves anything. We rely on hunting-friendly non-hunters as it is. It's about quality more than quantity. Even at that, you don't make dedicated hunters by making things easier for them. You make dedicated hunters by giving them genuine experiences.

 

[16Bore]

I don’t disagree, but like it or not, they are our future. Long after you and I are in the ground, it will be them to carry on the greatest wildlife management program known to man. Won’t matter if they’re sitting in a tree watching YouTube while they wait on a big deer, I just want to make sure we have the right to sit in the tree, and have something to shoot at.

Well....this is where road forks.

They are their own future. If a kid never hunts, why should I care? Don’t really see the point imposing my past time on a future generation because I think it’s good for them.
Hell, if I could go back to my 10th birthday, maybe I’d pick a new baseball glove. I hunted because I had a place to go, it was something to do, and read Field & Stream on the crapper.

If I hadn’t grown up in a rural area, maybe I would have played more baseball...who knows.

It’s what...something to do 5 or days a year for the average Joe?

 

[robby denning]

Well....this is where road forks.

They are their own future. If a kid never hunts, why should I care? Don’t really see the point imposing my past time on a future generation because I think it’s good for them.
Hell, if I could go back to my 10th birthday, maybe I’d pick a new baseball glove. I hunted because I had a place to go, it was something to do, and read Field & Stream on the crapper.

If I hadn’t grown up in a rural area, maybe I would have played more baseball...who knows.

It’s what...something to do 5 or days a year for the average Joe?

The road does fork here indeed


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[robby denning]

Even if we doubled the number of current hunters, we would not pose a politically formidable faction. I'm not convinced more hunters solves anything. We rely on hunting-friendly non-hunters as it is. It's about quality more than quantity. Even at that, you don't make dedicated hunters by making things easier for them. You make dedicated hunters by giving them genuine experiences.

Or lowering the barrier to entry.

What I mean by that is I agree with others opinions on here that if everyone has to be the most serious, bad-ass, “just like me” hunter to be in this sport, we have become a closed tribe. Those die out.

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[Mike7]

Agree 100%. Kids feel accomplished when they persevere and things are kind of hard (only possible when 10 soccer moms/dads are not standing around giving them a trophy for making it to the trailhead), and they feel good about themselves if they don't listen to social media about how easy it should be to harvest an animal.

But foremost they need opportunity, and that doesn't come from expensive licenses for them and their supervising parent with 1 week long seasons yearly that require them to pick a weapon and miss Saturday fall sports games or days of school during the week if they are going to hunt more than 1-2 Sundays in an entire year.

When I was a kid, the entire school was out for deer season and no football/volleyball games were scheduled....and not a single vegetarian complained. This would be unimaginable now.

 

[100percent]

Or lowering the barrier to entry.

What I mean by that is I agree with others opinions on here that if everyone has to be the most serious, bad-ass, “just like me” hunter to be in this sport, we have become a closed tribe. Those die out.

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Even if we doubled the number of current hunters, we would not pose a politically formidable faction. I'm not convinced more hunters solves anything. We rely on hunting-friendly non-hunters as it is. It's about quality more than quantity. Even at that, you don't make dedicated hunters by making things easier for them. You make dedicated hunters by giving them genuine experiences.

Man, you are just about to beat this dead horse back to life! My last comment on this: we, as hunters, are the minority. Advocation is very important to continuing this tradition. The thing that keeps this sport alive is tax dollars plain and simple. If and when this sport doesn't provide a tax revenue through purchases from licensing, waypoints, guide fees, and gear, tackle, gas, food, etc... sales, we will lose a part of this sport. Maybe not total decimation but, certainly different than we know today. The next generation is the future of hunting, plain and simple. If you want to ride it out as is-- you go right ahead but, remember some fine man or woman started you out hunting just like the rest of us. Selfishness and greed will kill this sport.

I will say this once more-- No team ever won a game by quarreling in the huddle!!!

God bless,

 

[Rthur]

The road does fork here indeed


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As more of the "potential" hunters are raised in the cities/urban areas
the less likely they have family or access to hunting traditions.
I've seen this trend even in rural areas.
The where and who to do it with is diminished.

R

 

[16Bore]

.......if everyone has to be the most serious, bad-ass, “just like me” hunter to be in this sport.......

This is part of the fork. Visions of grandour, my way or the highway, “your rifle sucks”, “your scope sucks”, “your camo sucks”, “you gotta join the NRA”, etc, etc.

Look at the cost of entry into hunting and the amount of time spent actually doing it. Gear, tags, licenses, it’s expensice as hell, even for those using the most basic of gear. Then the rush to Facebook, Instagram, and forums for bragging rights on just how “bad ass” someone is. And unfortunately, I see a lot of this with dad’s pushing their kids so THEY can post the bragging rights of little Johnny so he feels special and not left out.

And this follows the assumption that the current crop of hunters is paying forward ethical attitudes, which we all know isn’t the case. Have a look at some of the videos of “robo-deer” when “hunters” are being busted for doing stupid shit. There was a local one where dad stops the truck, little kid jumps out without his boots on and takes a shot.

You can’t come home successful and empty-handed anymore and individualism is gone.

That’s where we’re at.....IMO.

 

[robby denning]

In case anyone missed this recent article, this is where Rokslide stands on new hunter recruitment:

Molding New Sportsmen

“Yes!” Kelsey yelled as we watched the buck crash to the ground. Kelsey has grown up in a hunting family and recently she started shooting archery. When I found out she was interested in hunting, I was elated. Finally! I have a friend who will go hunting with me! We hunted vigorously through the...

www.rokslide.com

By Jessica Graham and John Stallone.


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[ODB]

This is part of the fork. Visions of grandour, my way or the highway, “your rifle sucks”, “your scope sucks”, “your camo sucks”, “you gotta join the NRA”, etc, etc.

Look at the cost of entry into hunting and the amount of time spent actually doing it. Gear, tags, licenses, it’s expensice as hell, even for those using the most basic of gear. Then the rush to Facebook, Instagram, and forums for bragging rights on just how “bad ass” someone is. And unfortunately, I see a lot of this with dad’s pushing their kids so THEY can post the bragging rights of little Johnny so he feels special and not left out.

And this follows the assumption that the current crop of hunters is paying forward ethical attitudes, which we all know isn’t the case. Have a look at some of the videos of “robo-deer” when “hunters” are being busted for doing stupid shit. There was a local one where dad stops the truck, little kid jumps out without his boots on and takes a shot.

You can’t come home successful and empty-handed anymore and individualism is gone.

That’s where we’re at.....IMO.

“individualism is gone.”

Correct. And there has been cultivated a certain aesthetic for hunters over the past maybe decade. The symbolic interactionist must have a field day with this. With apologies to those involved, the flat brim, $600 pack, high-end wool, $400 boot, chest pack bino case, binos on tripod, 6.5 creed or 280AI(?), Aldo Leopold book in the back pocket, “thoughtful” conversationalist, “I do it for the organic food,” movement seems to be a hell of a lot more about being in a clique than doing what is necessary to have a good hunt. Its no different than the hipster or grunge aesthetic; it’s temporal, largely cynical, and in the end, emblematic of a lack of individuality, not proof of it.

 

[WhiteOak]

Are you saying that you are not an individual? Or that everyone else besides you is not an individual?

Some pretty broad brush strokes here. I dont have social media except Rok and one other forum. Maybe you guys need to take a break from all that nonsense as it seems to really be effecting you. There is a world that exists outside of Instagram and Facebook. It seems like you know this yet are obsessed with staying on top of it. If only to complain about it.

Instead of trying to define what hunting should mean for everyone maybe just focus on what hunting means to you and be at peace knowing it may be different for someone else.

Why are we bashing potential or future hunters again?

 

[ODB]

Are you saying that you are not an individual? Or that everyone else besides you is not an individual?

Some pretty broad brush strokes here. I dont have social media except Rok and one other forum. Maybe you guys need to take a break from all that nonsense as it seems to really be effecting you. There is a world that exists outside of Instagram and Facebook. It seems like you know this yet are obsessed with staying on top of it. If only to complain about it.

Instead of trying to define what hunting should mean for everyone maybe just focus on what hunting means to you and be at peace knowing it may be different for someone else.

Why are we bashing potential or future hunters again?

IM saying that people act, purportedly for individual reasons, but in fact to become like others; they do things (dress, talk, act) like someone they admire so that within the public they exist, they maintain a certain status. For example, go to a BHA rendezvous or other hunting get-together, and tell me how many “keep public lands in public hands,” shirts you see. That’s not on accident. That shirt has meaning within the public that person exists, and it’s essentially a key to allow someone certain access/status.

As far as keeping “on top” of things, my only comment is that would you prefer I remain ignorant of what exists, or would you prefer I actually know of what I am talking about by keeping tabs on things? I keep on top of it because it think it’s detrimental and I have no problem saying so.

And finally, not bashing potential hunters. again, I’m critical of the hunting culture that has apparently Decided there is a preferential way to look/speak/act to the exclusion of others.

 

[Gobbler36]

Are you saying that you are not an individual? Or that everyone else besides you is not an individual?

Some pretty broad brush strokes here. I dont have social media except Rok and one other forum. Maybe you guys need to take a break from all that nonsense as it seems to really be effecting you. There is a world that exists outside of Instagram and Facebook. It seems like you know this yet are obsessed with staying on top of it. If only to complain about it.

Instead of trying to define what hunting should mean for everyone maybe just focus on what hunting means to you and be at peace knowing it may be different for someone else.

Why are we bashing potential or future hunters again?

No one is bashing new hunters we’re bashing the industry’s constant message of we need more hunters, we need more hunters, if we don’t get new hunters, hunting will fail! It’s fear mongering and To me it’s all driven by profit and selling products. That’s what we’re bashing. I’m all for someone going out to try hunting, I’ve got three young boys that will hopefully be a new generation of hunters should they choose to do so, but they will go because my household values the tradition not because newberg or some other personality with a million sponsors selling the latest gadget, waypoint or draw odds membership told them do so.

 

[WhiteOak]

I try my best to not let the American marketing machine get under my skin. Of course the industry pushes for more hunter as it ultimately means more customers.

I think that the current hunting culture many decry for the most part just exists on social media. It's not hard to avoid. I think Facebook and Instagram are a poison to society it's not just exclusive to hunting.

 

[WhiteOak]

As far as keeping “on top” of things, my only comment is that would you prefer I remain ignorant of what exists, or would you prefer I actually know of what I am talking about by keeping tabs on things? I keep on top of it because it think it’s detrimental and I have no problem saying so.

I get what your saying, you already know that bs exists out there and is likely not going away soon. I'm just saying you may be happier without it shoot it just may lead to more and more people dropping it. Then there would be no one for these jokers to try to impress.

 

[Billinsd]

The social revolution and upheaval, and rapid advance of technology have affected hunting. Not all of it is bad, though. Hunters as a whole are more individualustic than any other group I can think of, especially today. Just read the forums and you can see how different our opinions are. I don't truly fit in with any group and I've learned to accept it and try and be respectful and patient with others who annoy me or who I annoy. Some of us argue with each other even while we are in agreement. My wishes are that we don't alienate each other or new hunters. This is impossible, however why not be more mindful and tolerant of each other in what we say and do. And yes this is also directed at me. Bill

 

[100percent]

The social revolution and upheaval, and rapid advance of technology have affected hunting. Not all of it is bad, though. Hunters as a whole are more individualustic than any other group I can think of, especially today. Just read the forums and you can see how different our opinions are. I don't truly fit in with any group and I've learned to accept it and try and be respectful and patient with others who annoy me or who I annoy. Some of us argue with each other even while we are in agreement. My wishes are that we don't alienate each other or new hunters. This is impossible, however why not be more mindful and tolerant of each other in what we say and do. And yes this is also directed at me. Bill

Well said! Thanks Bill!