Best Mono Bullet for Hunting/Effective Kills

[Hoghead]

A few makers I pulled out of hogs I had in my too box.

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[saskhunter]

I've killed lots of game with Barnes TTSX in .25-06 and .300 WM.

Antelope, mule deer, whitetails, bears and caribou, all dead.

 

[Hoghead]

Pva Cayuga
Haven't recovered one yet. First picture is a exit at 375. Second is exit at 486. 3rd is under the shoulder of the same deer in picture 4 at 572. I don't remember what deer the last picture was, but it was an exit that hit a rib might be the 4th picture deer.

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[35WhelenAI]

Recovered .358 Barnes 200gr and 250gr Original X from elk. 3/4 inch expanded diameter for both. First picture is 250X, second picture 200X. Third pic shows side view with unfired bullets of each, and a 200 TTSX for length comparison. 35 Whelen AI, 2900 fps MV for 200X, 2575 fps MV for 250X. Both shots were hard quartering and went through 4' of elk diagonally. 200X quartering toward found under hide of the rear quarter at 180 yds, 250X quartering away found in neck meat at 60 yds. Been using the 200 TTSX for over a decade now, but none of the elk or deer have caught one yet to take a pic.

 

[35WhelenAI]

First pic exit on a small muley buck. 224 yds, .358 200 TTSX 35 Whelen AI (2940 MV). Second pic shows entrance from inside view.

Needless to say plenty of expansion upon entry and needless to say they leave an exit. My very little meat destruction, had to trim up around the holes and that was it.

Sorry, no pics of heart and lungs while in the field. They were chunked and tattered into pieces. This little boy dropped at the shot. By many counts it should have zipped on through such a little creature with just a pencil size hole. Experience tells me otherwise over 30 years.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Exit, .358 200 TTSX 125 yards broadside 35 Whelen AI (2940 MV). Very little meat destruction on entry (no pic) and exit (shown) in my opinion. Exit side quarter removed already, now I was taking all the rib sheath meat off to be ground into burger. Lead cow at a trot as she led the group out of the timber and across the meadow.

My son marveling at the gut pile of a 500 lb lead cow. Zoom in, plenty of destruction on the vital tissue. This pic was around mid-afternoon, after doing a double at 7 a.m. opening morning. We got them gutted and quartered and headed back to camp for the game cart to haul 8 quarters and all of the other meat out of the field. A well deserved beer before hauling out the loaded cart in the third pic.

He had picked off one from the small herd as well, no pics of his from a 130 TTSX out of a 30-06 (3300 MV).

 

[Macintosh]

A few makers I pulled out of hogs I had in my too box.

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Hoghead, sorry if I missed the info earlier, what was the cartridge these were fired from, bullet weight, range and approximate MV and impact velocity?

 

[Muleface]

If dropping an animal in its tracks is your only metric for success, then any copper bullet will work with a brain/spine/high shoulder shot. I don't consider an animal moving after the shot to be a failure unless the damage done is insufficient to kill it in a short time period.

My 2024 elk dropped in its tracks with a high-shoulder shot from my 141 HHT, but after seeing bullet performance, I'm confident it would have killed it with a conventional heart or lung shot, it just may have ran first.

New here, with a +1 for this. My day job involves stats. I like to reload. I have a table of "what happened" results for hunts from the SE to AK. The generalities I pull from that are:

1) Narrower-velocity-range expanders require narrower external ballistic range, for reliable expansion.

2) Shot placement that doesn't require expansion to be within that narrower range is a reliable solution (echoing Leaf Litter above).

3) Using monos has been a good excuse to hunt with stuff in larger chambers.

To me, the drawbacks of a mono are exemplified opposite Partition or A-Frame type bullets, which are effectively hedging strategies against uncertain impact velocity (they simultaneously do both of the things folks alternatingly emphasize as being good for terminal ballistics). I think the thing with monos is that optimal range and shot placement are necessarily more constrained because bullet design for terminal ballistics is also constrained by material. They can work great! Manufacturers are loath to emphasize application constraints though.

Barnes TSX and TTSX are what I've used in many cartridges, in generally light-for-cartridge weights across the board. No complaints, except that I didn't learn the above earlier. Dog gets a little more meat when bullet is placed at shoulder.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I get more meat with a shoulder hit and a mono vs any lead core/frangible bullet...

Seeing the after effect of Partitons (160 gr, 280 Rem, MV 2800), on a shoulder hit reminds me why I shoot monos, fwiw. No different than a traditional cup and core bullet or frangible bullet that is talked about around here.

As well, the on-side vitals are more liquefied vs the off-side vitals (comparing one lung to another, for example) IME. A Partiton verifiably gives a bullet sized exit because the design (damn good one to cover all bases in bullet performance) is to expand, come apart, then exit with the back half shank intact. But it will destroy a shoulder if hit on entry, from experience.

Bonded bullets at normal ranges maintain most of their weight and as such don't do as much meat damage from violently coming apart and tend to be similar to a mono in terms of wound channel, exit hole size. Again, from observed kills and not my own kills. At close range, bonded bullets create a larger frontal diameter whereas monos tend to be more or less the same expanded diameter within their velocity window.

 

[Thegman]

A few makers I pulled out of hogs I had in my too box.

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What are the details on the Maker bullets you were using? I.e., bullet, velocity, range, etc.

 

[Leaf Litter]

I get more meat with a shoulder hit and a mono vs any lead core/frangible bullet...

Seeing the after effect of Partitons (160 gr, 280 Rem, MV 2800), on a shoulder hit reminds me why I shoot monos, fwiw. No different than a traditional cup and core bullet or frangible bullet that is talked about around here.

As well, the on-side vitals are more liquefied vs the off-side vitals (comparing one lung to another, for example) IME. A Partiton verifiably gives a bullet sized exit because the design (damn good one to cover all bases in bullet performance) is to expand, come apart, then exit with the back half shank intact. But it will destroy a shoulder if hit on entry, from experience.

Bonded bullets at normal ranges maintain most of their weight and as such don't do as much meat damage from violently coming apart and tend to be similar to a mono in terms of wound channel, exit hole size. Again, from observed kills and not my own kills. At close range, bonded bullets create a larger frontal diameter whereas monos tend to be more or less the same expanded diameter within their velocity window.

I largely see the same results with copper. Very little bloodshot meat. My elk this year had MAYBE 4lb of bloodshot meat total with a high-shoulder shot.

Lead bullets bruise meat badly, creating bloodshot meat. Copper bullets seem to cut rather than tear/bruise.

 

[Muleface]

Agree with 35WhelenAI.

Are Woodleigh monos a bullet that is talked about around here?

 

[35WhelenAI]

Nine or 10 years ago, as I was going back to school to get a teaching license and masters degree for a second career, I worked in the hunting department at a Cabela's. Was also their reloading specialist, if you will. There was a fellow visiting the store and set up his table at the front. He had a cartridges of the world type of poster and also expanded bullet poster based upon his personal work. Do not recall his name.

As he and I talked, he made a comment that stuck with me based on his studies of many bullet types. This jives with my experience over decades and sample size of many animals, not a one and done "I'm never using monos again" mantra.

He said because monos don't shed weight and keep a modest frontal diameter along with the sharp petals versus a blunt frontal presentation, their internal velocity is higher, going through the totality of whatever penetration from whatever angle they are doing. That combined with the sharp petals rotating at 180,000 rpm like a boat prop (do the math with velocity and twist rate), allows them to create plenty of internal damage.

I haven't been perfect over my years in the field. For reference I have one "mystery" non animal recovery using the original 180X out of a 300 Win Mag at 50 yds on a muley doe in 1994. As well, a similar experience with a 200 gr Partiton on a muley doe at short range from the same 300 Win in 1998. My instinct says the shots were good, but something didn't go right within the totality of the shot being squeezed off to the bullet reaching the animal.

I don't talk crap on a Partiton nor would I talk crap on the X even though both were the same experience. Something just didn't work out right, and if you're shooting enough animals, it's gonna happen. I just don't know that I can blame a bullet more than I could blame myself.

With respect to "narrow velocity range expanders", if a shot on game is beyond 500 yards it's something to consider. Inside that range with most modern cartridges that start a bullet at 3000 FPS, it's not an issue. Which begs the question, is using frangible bullets at deliberate long range hunting or shooting? Didn't hear that come up as much of an issue 20 years ago.

 

[Hoghead]

Hoghead, sorry if I missed the info earlier, what was the cartridge these were fired from, bullet weight, range and approximate MV and impact velocity?

Those are 50 gi and 500 jrh 300 gr I use them when I hunt with my dogs so they don't exit. 1000 fps. Paul made them for me to open from 800 to 1200 fps

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[Macintosh]

He said because monos don't shed weight and keep a modest frontal diameter along with the sharp petals versus a blunt frontal presentation, their internal velocity is higher, going through the totality of whatever penetration from whatever angle they are doing. That combined with the sharp petals rotating at 180,000 rpm like a boat prop (do the math with velocity and twist rate), allows them to create plenty of internal damage

This jives with the scientific papers on how various bullets wound I have read, ie the temporary stretch cavity and permanent portion of wound channel created by a bullet is directly related to how quickly the bullet loses velocity, ie the faster a bullet decelerates, the more of its energy is transferred into creating a bigger hole—those papers cited fragmenting bullets as having the fastest deceleration, hence transferring a higher % of their possible energy into damaging tissue laterally. So it makes perfect sense that a mono known for penetration will retain velocity within the animal, as this is exactly what also causes it to make a smaller hole than a similar fragmenting bullet.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Mac, don't disagree with you in the general sense. The outward fling created by petals that grip tissue and fluid is not to be discounted as much as I believe it is by the blow up the shoulder and liquefy the lungs sentiment. The outward spiraling motion of tissue and fluid is very different than one that is simply bludgeoned yet spinning with no sharp or gripping edges.

I don't agree that monos create a temporary cavity in the same sense that a smooth profile expanded bullet does. A mono with petals is like a propeller, cuts tissue as it flings everything outward. Spin a lollipop through water or spin a similar diameter propeller on the same stick through water, which one is the more relatable to this situation?

Maybe this comes down to the possibility there is insecurity when something didn't go "right", (i.e when the animal doesn't drop in its tracks). And the Internet creates a "club" where folks have to rely on others, and don't have the opportunity to spend time in the woods to know there are other options.

When that elk shows itself for one opportunity during the season, does a pretty picture of a destroyed shoulder, liquefied vitals and no exit from a broadside shot make any difference when the animal is a hard quartering shot to or from? The ability to take any reasonable angle shot during the season is of paramount importance to me. Maybe some guys are able to wait for the perfect broadside.

I posted pictures of hard quartering shots with a mono bullet in post #84. How about folks sharing some from frangible bullets that did the same.

 

[35WhelenAI]

As far as Woodleigh bullets go I can't speak to them personally. They are good bonded bullets as far as I have read, seemingly large expanded diameter by design with not a very high bc.

For North American big game hunting there are so many bullet options that introducing them into the mix is splitting a hair twice that doesn't need more splitting.

Deliberately setting up and engaging past 500 yards with no intention of getting closer dilutes the meaning of hunting, it's long range shooting on a live animal.

 

[oldskool67]

I’ve had good success with Nosler E-Tips. 168gn out of my 30-06. Took a couple black bears and black tail with them. The shoulder shots on the black bears were devastating.
I used a Lehigh Controlled Chaos 152gn out of an AR 308 and had really good results on hogs.

 

[DagOtto]

A few makers I pulled out of hogs I had in my too box.

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holy petals batman!

From their website I assumed their bullet performed very similar to the Big Boys copper bullets (TTSX, CX, E-tip etc.)

But that is some WIDE bullet expansion!

Thanks for posting.

 

[6.5Express]

We have had excellent history with Barnes lrx since the time they've been available. Many antelope, whitetail, mule deer, elk, a mountain goat, couple lions, wolf, etc worth of experience. They just work for us. The following are some of our favorite loads
280 ackley/ 145 lrx
260 ackley / 127 lrx
7mm wsm / 139 lrx
264 win mag / 127 lrx
7mm saw /139 lrx

The one 260 ackley has 19 critters under its belt in the last 3 seasons including 2 big bull elk at 505. All with the 127.

After a ~10 year break from frangible bullets, I loaded some 143 eldx for a 264 win mag for my wife and I to hunt pronghorn this fall. Results were less than desirable and will be going a different route in the future.

We also had a less than desirable experience with my sons 260 ackley and 135 berger classic hunter on a bull elk I called in for him this fall. We will be working up an lrx load for him this winter.

Every time I start daydreaming about cartridges, custom rifles, and high bc, the practical side of me wonders what would ever be needed in excess of that 260 ackley and a 127 lrx for western big game at "normal" hunting distances for us and our uses.