Best Mono Bullet for Hunting/Effective Kills

[philcox]

I think I might have asked this before, but can't find that answer. I am in California, so to be legal, I need to shoot a mono bullet. Based on the MANY discussions @Formidilosus has started to participated in, I am looking for Mono's that (while maybe not ideal) will be the best. At this point, here is what I understand (can remember):

• Fragmenting is "better" ... faster incapacitation
• "Mushroom" look great, but permanent wound channels are not as good as above
• Hammer Hunters "shed" pedals, so have some level of fragmentation
• DRT Terminal Shock might be the best "mono" for effective killing
• There are a bunch of mono's out there that I have no experience with
• I have used Hammers and LRX to harvest animals previously.
  • I hit a great 1st shot (124 Hammer 2940fps 65 CM) at 415 on a deer, and it went about 40 yards and layed down, then I put another 2 in it, all exits. Then it finally expired. It did not "drop" on the 1st hit. I did not do an autopsy for the bullet (so not sure about "pedals"). I am wondering if the first shot would have done the job, or is a DRT would have dropped it on the first shot
  • Son shot my 300WM 175 LRX deer 275y, put 1st (great shot), deer stayed up. Ended up putting 3 total in it. All exits, and no big exit holes.

While the Hammer and LRX did their job, I am worried that the "would channel" of those are not something I can rely on "fast" incapacitation. Maybe that is just what I have to live with in California. With that said, my 78y neck shot with the 300WM did drop the deer in it's tracks.

I have not had good luck with DRT grouping in my 6.5, and they don't make a 7mm.

I'd like to know what Mono's folks are using and they are seeing quick incapacitation (or not).

 

[wind gypsy]

DRT is not lead but it is also not a mono.

 

[ljalberta]

I’ll be following along. I was initially a TTSX and LRX fan, but have found that I now prefer bullet that creates a wider and more devastating wound channel.

Currently I have some 6.5mm 125gr CE Lazers I’m using and I’ve ordered some .308 150gr CE Maximus to try. Only a single bear down with Lazer bullet and I did not inspect the chest cavity. But it put the bear down real quick, and I found the base of the bullet, sans pedals at the far end of the wound channel. Obviously no conclusions can be drawn from this, but I’ll hopefully get some more animals and pictures in the fall.

 

[philcox]

DRT is not lead but it is also not a mono.

Correct. I should have indicated has to be non-lead in my state. DRT meets that. I am looking for non-lead options.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Sorta a broken record but if you are going to shoot a mushrooming mono you need to change your frame of mind and think of it as a high speed broadhead that can punch bone.

Does a rear lung arrow drop and animal in its tracks? No, thus chances the mono won't either. Archery hunters expect a shot like that will take a bit and they'll have to wait, yet rifle hunters shooting a bullet that is doing something similar expect different results.

Does an arrow through the heart kill an animal very quickly? Yes. Shooting for the heart / arterial bundle is what you want to do with a mushrooming mono if you want it to drop asap, either they start to run but bleed out very quickly or the impact near the shoulder/spine knocks them down and they bleed out before they recover to get back up.

Just my mindset in shooting mostly barnes for a decade.

You've covered most of the bullet options above, one left off is the patriot valley arms version that tumbles.

 

[philcox]

Sorta a broken record but if you are going to shoot a mushrooming mono you need to change your frame of mind and think of it as a high speed broadhead that can punch bone.

Does a rear lung arrow drop and animal in its tracks? No, thus chances the mono won't either. Archery hunters expect a shot like that will take a bit and they'll have to wait, yet rifle hunters shooting a bullet that is doing something similar expect different results.

Does an arrow through the heart kill an animal very quickly? Yes. Shooting for the heart / arterial bundle is what you want to do with a mushrooming mono if you want it to drop asap, either they start to run but bleed out very quickly or the impact near the shoulder/spine knocks them down and they bleed out before they recover to get back up.

Just my mindset in shooting mostly barnes for a decade.

You've covered most of the bullet options above, one left off is the patriot valley arms version that tumbles.

Good point to consider! I like the heart/arterial bundle focus.

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

I've been using 168gr TTSX out of a 30-06AI for 12-15 years now. They kill deer and elk just fine, but I do notice animals take a little longer (10-15 seconds) to fall over dead when I shoot them past 300 yards. On the flip side I've never seen deer fall over faster than when I shot Hornady SST's for a couple years especially at those longer ranges (for me... I'm not a 600 yard sniper man).

 

[H80Hunter]

Has anyone killed anything with a Norma Evostrike? They shot really accurate for me and claim some level of fragmentation, but I never killed anything. They are lead-free.

 

[huckfin]

LRX and Hammer are what I have had luck with, maybe step down in bullet weigh to up the velocity with both.
I notice when I can push the LRX faster than 3100 fps (muzzle) it will shed the pedals within 250yards giving great performance just like the hammers but still expanding down to 1600fps at extended ranges. The new hammer tipped are nice as well. I do believe these monos need to be pushed at higher velocities to get the hydrostatic shock for those quick kills.

 

[dangerdude]

Does anyone know if the Hammer bullets are available in commercial ammunition? Or any other copper / non-lead option with low weight retention?

 

[Macintosh]

I dont have the pile of experience I might get in the southeast US, but have been shooting mono bullets for a number of years, mostly because of the smaller wound channels--bullets like the sst and ballistic tips I had been using worked great, but destroyed way more meat than I wanted to lose when I inevitably hit a shoulder. Deer is our red meat, and I work my butt off for the few opportunities I get, so I dont like wasting any. At close range (say 200 and in) with my more traditional cartridges such as 3006 and 270, and even the 7mm08, deer seem to go down fast, between my wife and I I think about a dozen deer over the past few years have been DRT, or at least "down" and couldnt get up before expiring. Only one I recall went about 30 yards, and that one had one of the largest exits of any I have seen with a mono, right through his heart, it was dead it just didnt know it yet. The only deer sized game that were problematic was a deer and an antelope, both shot about 80 yards, that both had bad hits, ie lung/liver or even farther back--the deer went a couple hundred yards and was found dead, and the antelope required another shot--but neither of those can be blamed on the bullet. Inside 150 yards I expect to see a golf-ball-to tennis ball sized exit; past 150 yards I expect to see an exit about the size of the mushroomed bullet, so its going to be a small hole with a bullet of this type.
I dont have nearly the experience at ranges past 250, but most of these bullets lose velocity very fast for me at the elevations I shoot, typically under 3000' and often in the 1000-1500' range. Barnes claims minimum expansion velocity of 1800fps at impact for most of their bullets, to which most folks I have heard address the subject recommend adding 10% or more to that figure for reliable expansion. At 1500' elevation my 3006 with 168's at about 2850fps drops below 2200fps at 350 yards, and below 2000fps just a bit over 400. My 6.5cm shooting 127lrx's also at about 2850 drops below 22000fps at 340 yards, and below 2000 at about 460. My 270win with barnes LRX is the best of what I have, starting with a MV of 3000fps it's at 2200 at 400 yards, and doesnt drop below 2000 until a hair over 500 yards...but the ttsx's out of the same gun lose steam at 425. I say all that to point out that at 415 yards that bullet may very well have been below or at the extreme lower edge of its reliable expansion velocity, and is likely a "worst case" example of what you can expect. I assume you are handloading so perhaps you had a higher velocity, are at higher elevation, or maybe that HH bullet will expand reliably below these velocities??

I have heard the DRT bullets and possibly some others fragment and may offer faster killing, but really have seen very few examples, and very few of even those have enough detail to offer a reliable expectation. I'm quite happy with how my 3006 and 270 seem to work withthese bullets, but would be more inclined to try a fragmenting bullet again in order to drop down to a smaller cartridge. There is one post on the 6.5 bullets thread of a DRT bullet, but that's the only one I know, and I really dont know the velocity guidance, etc. I also havent seen any real specific info on any of the other nontox bullets that claim to have a fragmentation effect. (edit: even the CRB africa photos mentioned below contain less info that is really helpful, I want to see internals and what it did to them as well as impact velocity and animal behavior after the hit). I think we ought to start a non-tox bullets autopsy/photos thread so people can see all of this and start making some more informed choices in one thread.

 

[omicron1792]

Shoot hammers or CEB Maximus /raptor.

Aria loads both.

Check out Africa hunting pictures on cuttingedgeballistics website. Lots of autopsy photos.

 

[huckfin]

Does anyone know if the Hammer bullets are available in commercial ammunition? Or any other copper / non-lead option with low weight retention?

Weatherby loads a few cartridge's with hammers.

• 6.5 PRC
• 280 ACKLEY IMPROVED
• 7MM PRC
• 28 NOSLER
• 300 PRC

 

[omicron1792]

I dont have the pile of experience I might get in the southeast US, but have been shooting mono bullets for a number of years, mostly because of the smaller wound channels--bullets like the sst and ballistic tips I had been using worked great, but destroyed way more meat than I wanted to lose when I inevitably hit a shoulder. Deer is our red meat, and I work my butt off for the few opportunities I get, so I dont like wasting any. At close range (say 200 and in) with my more traditional cartridges such as 3006 and 270, and even the 7mm08, deer seem to go down fast, between my wife and I I think about a dozen deer over the past few years have been DRT, or at least "down" and couldnt get up before expiring. Only one I recall went about 30 yards, and that one had one of the largest exits of any I have seen with a mono, right through his heart, it was dead it just didnt know it yet. The only deer sized game that were problematic was a deer and an antelope, both shot about 80 yards, that both had bad hits, ie lung/liver or even farther back--the deer went a couple hundred yards and was found dead, and the antelope required another shot--but neither of those can be blamed on the bullet. Inside 150 yards I expect to see a golf-ball-to tennis ball sized exit; past 150 yards I expect to see an exit about the size of the mushroomed bullet, so its going to be a small hole with a bullet of this type.
I dont have nearly the experience at ranges past 250, but most of these bullets lose velocity very fast for me at the elevations I shoot, typically under 3000' and often in the 1000-1500' range. Barnes claims minimum expansion velocity of 1800fps at impact for most of their bullets, to which most folks I have heard address the subject recommend adding 10% or more to that figure for reliable expansion. At 1500' elevation my 3006 with 168's at about 2850fps drops below 2200fps at 350 yards, and below 2000fps just a bit over 400. My 6.5cm shooting 127lrx's also at about 2850 drops below 22000fps at 340 yards, and below 2000 at about 460. My 270win with barnes LRX is the best of what I have, starting with a MV of 3000fps it's at 2200 at 400 yards, and doesnt drop below 2000 until a hair over 500 yards...but the ttsx's out of the same gun lose steam at 425. I say all that to point out that at 415 yards that bullet may very well have been below or at the extreme lower edge of its reliable expansion velocity, and is likely a "worst case" example of what you can expect. I assume you are handloading so perhaps you had a higher velocity, are at higher elevation, or maybe that HH bullet will expand reliably below these velocities??

I have heard the DRT bullets and possibly some others fragment and may offer faster killing, but really have seen very few examples, and very few of even those have enough detail to offer a reliable expectation. There is one post on the 6.5 bullets thread of a DRT bullet, but that's the only one I know, and I really dont know the velocity guidance, etc. I also havent seen any real specific info on any of the other nontox bullets that claim to have a fragmentation effect. (edit: even the CRB africa photos mentioned below contain less info that is really helpful, I want to see internals and what it did to them as well as impact velocity and animal behavior after the hit). I think we ought to start a non-tox bullets autopsy/photos thread so people can see all of this and start making some more informed choices in one thread.

CEB President Dan Smitchko's South Africa Hunt

cuttingedgebullets.com

 

[Macintosh]

Thanks, saw that. It's good to see, although ultimately what I'd like to see is some consistency in a volume of results on game I'm familiar with, and info including shot position, what the animal did after the hit, what it passed through and did to internals, and more consistent details on cartridge, bullet weight and more importantly impact velocity. It's a great start though, and I appreciate you posting the link, it took me a minute to find it on their site.

 

[6mm Remington]

Nosler E-Tips have performed and shot very well for us!!

 

[Jason Snyder]

Good point to consider! I like the heart/arterial bundle focus.

Aim for the < right between the humerus and scapula. Think of a grapefruit suspended between the front legs that is 1/3 the way up the body.

I’ve hit animals in this location with Hammers that couldn’t make three steps before they were stumbling.

Edit, I drew this with my finger, in the real world I’d shift POA to the left about an inch or two.

 

[omicron1792]

Thanks, saw that. It's good to see, although ultimately what I'd like to see is some consistency in a volume of results on game I'm familiar with, and info including shot position, what the animal did after the hit, what it passed through and did to internals, and more consistent details on cartridge, bullet weight and more importantly impact velocity. It's a great start though, and I appreciate you posting the link, it took me a minute to find it on their site.

Read a poster named michael458 on an African hunting site. He helped design and did testing on the raptor line. You’ll get all the info you desire.

 

[180ls1]

I think you need to pick up the speed. I have shot a lot of animals with my 6.5prc (3400fps hammers) and .270 (3200 fps various lrx/cx). The 6.5 at 3400 has been more devastating.

Besides losing 1 bull (he dropped and left when I took my eyes off, I misplaced it too far forward also) the other animals (elk, pigs, deer) have all dropped or made it 30 yards at the most.

 

[wapitibob]

I've had no issue with either a 140 TSX or 143 Hammers killing Elk. They both were running upper 3400's fps.